What the hell is it with men and their dicks?

[Deleted12]

Why do certain men seem to think that the almighty power of their dick overrides the rights of other people to not be harassed, groped, felt up, assaulted, raped in the locker room, or what have you?

Also, why is it that other men make excuses for the few men who are truly bad? I read the grand jury report on the Sandusky case, and there were EIGHT little boys who are known to have been molested by this shithead, which of course means that there are eighty more boys and men who haven't come forth yet. I have no idea how many women Herman Cain harassed or assaulted, but it looks like that number's going to be in the double digits too. I'm sure that a very small percent of men are awful like this, but one man can hurt dozens if not hundreds of other people. The impact to society is tremendous, and the damage to men as a gender is tremendous too. Nevertheless, Rush Limbaugh and others are sticking up for Cain and basically saying that the women had it coming, and a SHOCKING number of other men knew about Sandusky and did nothing. It seems like men as a gender should want to purge the bad ones from their midst. Instead it seems like for every really bad man there are a dozen men who aren't themselves bad, but who will make excuses for the one asshole.

I have spent years wondering about these things, and I have come up with nothing.

[annalena]

Here's my take on this.

1. Don't generalize. By far not all guys defend sexual offenders.

2. Dickheads have always, and will always be around. We all know "she didn't give it to him" is N O argument to justify rape or sexual abuse. Say hello to your right hand, guys. Thats what you do in such a case.

3. Biologically, I personally have come up with this explanation and I think it's true. Sex is for reproduction. That's really what it's all about. Men can always reproduce. Women only on certain days. So, I know some think this is not politically correct, god knows why, but women are basically more horny when they can reproduce. Watch your cycle, it's true. Men are basically always horny. Exceptions prove the rule.

Combine that with more physical strength, and a society that is like "What? He just grabbed your butt/tits/wherever? C'mon that's really nothing" (Seen like 100 times in the comments on an article about groping at the Oktoberfest) and there you go.

Guys, NONE of the above justifies any kind of sexual harrassment. NONE. Key words: FREE WILL and BRAIN. Do it yourself.

Actually, at one point in time, I'd like to fund a nonprofit which goes to schools to raise awareness for this kind of thing. Tells kids where they can go in case they're being abused and educates boys it's NOT funny to grab girls' butts in the club.

[doggie]

the education needs to start young. I just read a report a week or so ago where they did a survey of preteens and teens I think 10 to 16 but I can't remember for sure. around 55 to 60 percent of females and 40% of males felt they had suffered unwanted sexual things like touching, language, or texts, and emails.

[annalena]

exactly. and it needs to be made VERY CLEAR groping is not cool, manly, or funny.

At least here (in Germany), I miss something like that. That's why, once I'm capable of doing it, I want to do that.

[Deleted12]

QED:

Herman Cain’s gender gap

Almost half of the women who were with him two weeks ago have now jumped ship -- but men are standing firm

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/11/herman_ ... singleton/

[Austin]

QED:

Herman Cain’s gender gap

Almost half of the women who were with him two weeks ago have now jumped ship -- but men are standing firm

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/11/herman_ ... singleton/

I find this deeply disturbing. Of course, I admit to being upset about this since the story broke. The way that I have heard women who have been sexually harassed referred to hurts me and makes me angry. I can't believe the absolutely asinine remarks that even people in the media have made, such as Wolf Blitzer (CNN) saying, "Why did she wait 14 years to come forward?" Uh, Wolf (is he for real?), what wait? What would she have been "waiting" for? Maybe her crystal ball was broken and she didn't know the asshole was going to run for president in fourteen years. :roll: Maybe it's because Sharon Bialek didn't have anyone to complain to: she didn't work for the National Restaurant Association or for anyone at the time.

Would she be more noble if she sat on that information while this pig ran for president?

I guess so. I am NOT naive, but I have tended more towards idealism as I have gotten older, maybe because I really think we can do better (as a society, I mean). This kind of reaction from men (on the whole) is just incredibly disheartening, though. As is the fact that the aforementioned pig has managed to raise more money since this story broke than he raised in the whole three months prior to that. Some people are clearly speaking with their wallets and the message is singularly anti-woman.

I do know that there are many good men who are pro-women and find sexual harassment disgusting. They're just being edged out right now on the national stage by cretins at the moment.

[clibbyjo]

I think most men would have beat the shit out of Sandusky if they saw that happening. My husband and I were discussing this today. My husband is a hockey coach. He said if he ever saw anything like that happening, the guy would not be walking out of the rink because he would beat the shit out of him before calling the police (my husband is not violent at all in normal circumstances).Real men do not want to be associated with pigs like that.

[TheSassyOne]

On the way home from a minor procedure, the hubby and me were listening to the radio [political chat] on this very subject. Now my hubby votes for Republican candidates and had been a Cain supporter from early on. He even scoffed at the first report, thinking it was "just" a political ploy [of course he blamed it on the Democrats] :doh:

But now, like me, he's aghast at these accusations that have been flung against Cain and even today, Cain made some joking remark about "is Anita Hill going to endorse me" hahaha. Oh and his calling Nancy Pelosi, Princess Nancy....Yeah, hahaha -NOT!

Anyway, the majority of callers to the radio show were all supportive of Cain [even some who said they were Democrats - I really hope that's not true though]. One after the other their main comment was that "women want they cake and want to eat it too." That these women had purposely used their sexuality to obtain a job with Cain and of course, like any healthy man he reacted to their propositions. But these women then backed off when the man acted like a man. [Oh, it gets worse] Most of the callers [men, sadly] said that at that point Cain showed he was honorable by then pulling back once the women changed their minds, but none of this was his fault because women have been doing this from the beginning of time to get what they want and now men are just tired of it and calling them on their bad behavior!

I was like...WTF! Only because I was full of so much really good local anesthesia, I could only rant in my head, because as soon as we arrived at home I fell asleep and didn't get the opportunity to call into the show. The station is more on the conservative side, but even the host was astounded [a man] at the calls. He kept asking the men, do you have daughters? Would you want your daughter to be treated like this? Most callers either said nope, no daughters or simply wouldn't entertain his question. I was so enraged and saddened really hearing these opinion. My Mom and my Dad [who died two years ago], did not act this way, did not raise me or my sisters or brothers to have this point of view. My Dad, who was a Veteran of WWII drilled it into us that we were all worthy and we were never ever ever to allow anyone to take advantage of us, in any way. Along with that was to always conduct ourselves honorably in our lives - with our family, with friends, etc. Did we fight and fuss...oh heck yes, but we were aware of our boundaries. Heck my brothers played sports and in a memorable game, the benches of both teams emptied into an ugly fight. Now my brothers, both starters and BIG guys, were still on the sidelines. When asked why they didn't participate, they simply said, "Dad taught us unless we had to defend ourselves or family from true harm, there was no need to get into physical fights...leave that for others who wanted to fight"...and they did.

Sorry, I think I'm officially rambling. But I work at a school that labels itself "conservative Catholic" and most of the faculty are raging right wing Republicans. Not all, but ugh, the ones who are sit and condemn Obama, not on specific policy that they don't agree with [because they usually have no clue] and spend the rest of their time extolling the virtues of Cain, Perry and Bachmann!

p.s. Just in case anyone asks since I mentioned conservative Catholic....yes we do discuss the clergy abuse and in a larger context, all sexual/physical abuse. We had to learn the hard way from our mistakes, but that's something that is not swept under the rug.

[TheSassyOne]

I think most men would have beat the shit out of Sandusky if they saw that happening. My husband and I were discussing this today. My husband is a hockey coach. He said if he ever saw anything like that happening, the guy would not be walking out of the rink because he would beat the shit out of him before calling the police (my husband is not violent at all in normal circumstances).Real men do not want to be associated with pigs like that.

Yep, my hubby would have beat that predator to a pulp, heck I would have too and I'm not a violent person. I've been thinking about this though. With this scandal and the MJ Doctor trial that just ended, and the clergy abuse scandal. Heck, go back to any scandal dealing with authority or people with lots of power, for whatever reason the "rules" seem to change.

This football assistant actually witnesses a rape of a child and doesn't call 911 or the police, which he's mandated to do, he reports it to a higher up. People working for Jackson testified that they wanted to call 911 but the doctor told them to wait and instead clean up the room. Those in the clergy abuse [not the parents] don't contact authorities, but move around the clergy.

In any of those situations, we would all have done something different, we would have all contacted the police first and foremost. I've had to do that four times in my teaching career. Yes, administration was contacted, but I still had to contact the police and local/state authorities on my own. It's the law. All those people are in the above situations are YES people. They are protecting their jobs or a "brand", so they think. I mean really, if any of us saw a loved one in cardiac arrest and in need of help, would we really wait for the doctor to give us permission to call for an ambulance? Heck no! If I saw a grown man raping a child....A CHILD....omg, that man might have killed me, because I would have gone in with both arms flailing, getting him off of that child. I would have kicked, bitten, slapped - whatever I needed to do to help that kid, someone that I don't know, but someone who doesn't deserve what is happening to him. These people [Paterno included in my book] are so insulated, that seem to believe the laws don't apply to them.

[luckylibrarian]

Just wanted to add my agreement that you can't generalize that all men are excusing this. At least with the Sandusky case, don't forget that all men were once young boys, and many men have been abused.

My dad is a big college football fan, and I was a little surprised when he told me that he thinks all of the coaching staff should be fired. He also thinks that the NCAA should give Penn State the "death penalty" and end the program and cancel all of their games. He tried to read the grand jury testimony and was absolutely sickened. I don't know why I thought my dad would stick up for Joe Paterno, but he didn't. I think what we are hearing now is a very vocal minority of douchebags.

[starfish]

Wouldn't that be something if the NCAA gave them the death penalty? That would get everyone's attention.

I'm glad the grad assistant reported it to someone, but I too have trouble understanding why he didn't call the police.

Have ya'll seen the companion story about the missing DA in the area? I don't *think* it's related, but it sure is weird.

Sandusky's last game coaching was in San Antonio and he brought one of the rape victims with him to the game. I hear Bexar County is investigating now.

Go Texas! Go Texas! Indict that freak.

[jaelh]

I'm glad the grad assistant reported it to someone, but I too have trouble understanding why he didn't call the police.

It's pretty standard for any child molestation reporting by a staff member of a school goes through the school. You might expect a teacher to be involved in ensuring something is followed up, but you bet that the report goes via the principal or departmental head, unless the staff member thought the higher up wasn't reliable/trustworthy.

I find the not following up to be much more troublesome than how various people reported this (that, and no direct intervention at the time).

[Austin]

On the way home from a minor procedure, the hubby and me were listening to the radio [political chat] on this very subject. Now my hubby votes for Republican candidates and had been a Cain supporter from early on. He even scoffed at the first report, thinking it was "just" a political ploy [of course he blamed it on the Democrats] :doh:

But now, like me, he's aghast at these accusations that have been flung against Cain and even today, Cain made some joking remark about "is Anita Hill going to endorse me" hahaha. Oh and his calling Nancy Pelosi, Princess Nancy....Yeah, hahaha -NOT!

Anyway, the majority of callers to the radio show were all supportive of Cain [even some who said they were Democrats - I really hope that's not true though]. One after the other their main comment was that "women want they cake and want to eat it too." That these women had purposely used their sexuality to obtain a job with Cain and of course, like any healthy man he reacted to their propositions. But these women then backed off when the man acted like a man. [Oh, it gets worse] Most of the callers [men, sadly] said that at that point Cain showed he was honorable by then pulling back once the women changed their minds, but none of this was his fault because women have been doing this from the beginning of time to get what they want and now men are just tired of it and calling them on their bad behavior!

I was like...WTF! Only because I was full of so much really good local anesthesia, I could only rant in my head, because as soon as we arrived at home I fell asleep and didn't get the opportunity to call into the show. The station is more on the conservative side, but even the host was astounded [a man] at the calls. He kept asking the men, do you have daughters? Would you want your daughter to be treated like this? Most callers either said nope, no daughters or simply wouldn't entertain his question. I was so enraged and saddened really hearing these opinion. My Mom and my Dad [who died two years ago], did not act this way, did not raise me or my sisters or brothers to have this point of view. My Dad, who was a Veteran of WWII drilled it into us that we were all worthy and we were never ever ever to allow anyone to take advantage of us, in any way. Along with that was to always conduct ourselves honorably in our lives - with our family, with friends, etc. Did we fight and fuss...oh heck yes, but we were aware of our boundaries. Heck my brothers played sports and in a memorable game, the benches of both teams emptied into an ugly fight. Now my brothers, both starters and BIG guys, were still on the sidelines. When asked why they didn't participate, they simply said, "Dad taught us unless we had to defend ourselves or family from true harm, there was no need to get into physical fights...leave that for others who wanted to fight"...and they did.

Sorry, I think I'm officially rambling. But I work at a school that labels itself "conservative Catholic" and most of the faculty are raging right wing Republicans. Not all, but ugh, the ones who are sit and condemn Obama, not on specific policy that they don't agree with [because they usually have no clue] and spend the rest of their time extolling the virtues of Cain, Perry and Bachmann!

p.s. Just in case anyone asks since I mentioned conservative Catholic....yes we do discuss the clergy abuse and in a larger context, all sexual/physical abuse. We had to learn the hard way from our mistakes, but that's something that is not swept under the rug.

I just repeated the bolded part above to my husband and he is aghast, as well. He said, "Oh, I suppose he should get a gold star for backing off when she said 'no'". No. A real man (hate that term, but don't know what else to use) doesn't make those sorts of advances (hand up her skirt, pushing her head towards his crotch) in the first place. It does not even occur to a decent person, man or woman, to think to themselves, "Let's see how far I can get in sexually groping this person I barely know".

Herman Cain is a pig. And I think that's an insult to pigs, actually. I heard about his remark about Anita Hill and was disgusted, as well. He just can't help himself, can he? "Princess Nancy"? OMG. You don't have to like someone to respect their accomplishments or the position they had attained (former Speaker of the House, now the minority leader). Would anyone ever refer to the current speaker as "Prince Boehner"? It just makes me crazy angry. I hope he gets hit by a bus.

This has nothing to do with politics. I'm an Obama supporter, but I don't think the country would go to hell in a handbasket if Romney won the White House. I think he's a decent person and he seems like a gentleman. I can't imagine him saying these sorts of things. Same with Huntsman. GOP voters clearly have a better choice to support than Cain. I consider anyone who still supports Herman Cain a POS.

BTW, I hope you're feeling better after whatever procedure you had!

[duplessis3]

I told my son that the no.1 rule on a University campus is that if you see something happen - a crime - you call the TOWN POLICE. Not the administration, not the campus police. Because the town or city will take it seriously and not have the same investment of keeping enrollment up, maintaining the reputation of the school, etc.

My husband and I, when we were talking, agreed that patriarchal, hierarchical structures are the problem. If there had been women in the program, or out gay men, or other men not emotionally invested in the sport/their career/reputation, this probably wouldn't have happened. I see this as having the same problems the Catholic Church (and Boy Scouts) have - too much investment in protecting the organization, so that what is right becomes what is good for the organization.

[Hane]

I told my son that the no.1 rule on a University campus is that if you see something happen - a crime - you call the TOWN POLICE. Not the administration, not the campus police. Because the town or city will take it seriously and not have the same investment of keeping enrollment up, maintaining the reputation of the school, etc.

My husband and I, when we were talking, agreed that patriarchal, hierarchical structures are the problem. If there had been women in the program, or out gay men, or other men not emotionally invested in the sport/their career/reputation, this probably wouldn't have happened. I see this as having the same problems the Catholic Church (and Boy Scouts) have - too much investment in protecting the organization, so that what is right becomes what is good for the organization.

Bingo on both points--especially for the wonderful advice you gave your son.

[Letgo]

I completely agree that anyone and everyone should have notified the police when they witnessed Sandusky molesting children. From the beginning of this story I have wondered why no one did. I understand reporting the crime to the head coach, athletic director, etc. That makes sense because the powers that be should know. I would have done so immediately, after I had reported it to the police. But after all of this uproar with no one stepping up to contact the police when he witnessed a crime against a child, what, exactly, are the legal responsibilities required by a witness? Not the moral responsibilities, everyone failed miserably there, but legal ones. And in my opinion, moral responsibility takes precedence over legal, especially because this involved children.

I ask because this case reminded me of one from 1997. Seven year old Sherrice Iverson was raped and murdered in a casino bathroom in Nevada while her father gambled. The rapist and killer, Jeremy Strohmeyer, was with a friend, David Cash, who did nothing except leave the bathroom. I think I read somewhere that Cash might have told Strohmeyer not to do it, but he made no effort to stop the rape and murder and did not turn in the guy. Cash walked away. He even told a couple of friends that he watched Strohmeyer assault the little girl although he later denied that he witnessed the rape and murder. Cash was not prosecuted. In fact, he continued as a student at Cal, where his fellow students, to their credit, shunned him. Apparently, it is not illegal to not stop a crime or to not report it. So why are the men involved in the Penn State case being investigated and charged? Is it because they were mandatory reporters? Is that the difference? I think they should all be charged, but why is keeping quiet legally permissible when Cash did it but not in the Penn State situation? Can any legal people explain this to me?

[Constance Vigilance]

People working for Jackson testified that they wanted to call 911 but the doctor told them to wait and instead clean up the room.

It's weird, but on my phone you can actually dial 911 without any medical professional having to authorise it first! The phone just lets you dial it regardless!

I call absolute bullshit on the people who "wanted to call 911" but didn't because some guy said not to. No one stopped them. They stopped themselves, because they decided abdicating responsibility was just fine. I hope the reality of what they were a party to haunts them for the rest of their lives, and I hope they teach their friends and children different.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Even without the sexual harassment charges, I find Herman Cain repugnant. He is arrogant, thoughtless and condescending. He lacks empathy and compassion. He's flippant and rude towards others. Is this the kind of person we want leading our country?

But it looks like Lady Lydia has a crush on him:

http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/201 ... -response/

And is just me or has the fundie crowd been strangely silent on the Penn State case? I thought they would be up in arms because they think children are such blessings and gifts from God.

Oh wait a minute. Laura/Laurence from the NON-Thinking Housewife has a POV.

http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/201 ... ones-rape/

[Brainsample]

Slightly OT but related to the thread title:

When I worked in ICU and also in Recovery Room, or more formally, the "Post Anesthesia Care Unit," I was amazed at how most men, upon awakening, have to reach in to check to see if their penis is still attached. They almost all do it, sometimes before they are fully conscious. I've considered that they are perhaps concerned about incontinence, worrying that they may have wet the bed. But if that were the case, it would give to some reason that they would feel the sheets, not their anatomy. I always found it a bit amazing because I've seen so many men do this.

[emmiedahl]

I ask because this case reminded me of one from 1997. Seven year old Sherrice Iverson was raped and murdered in a casino bathroom in Nevada while her father gambled. The rapist and killer, Jeremy Strohmeyer, was with a friend, David Cash, who did nothing except leave the bathroom. I think I read somewhere that Cash might have told Strohmeyer not to do it, but he made no effort to stop the rape and murder and did not turn in the guy. Cash walked away. He even told a couple of friends that he watched Strohmeyer assault the little girl although he later denied that he witnessed the rape and murder. Cash was not prosecuted. In fact, he continued as a student at Cal, where his fellow students, to their credit, shunned him. Apparently, it is not illegal to not stop a crime or to not report it. So why are the men involved in the Penn State case being investigated and charged? Is it because they were mandatory reporters? Is that the difference? I think they should all be charged, but why is keeping quiet legally permissible when Cash did it but not in the Penn State situation? Can any legal people explain this to me?

I think the big difference is that in the second case, Cash was not acting in any official capacity. He could have argued that he was afraid or whatever, which makes it difficul to prosecute.

The guys at Penn State are mandated reporters who for years knew about the problems and did nothing, letting more and more people be victimized. It was not a one-time thing where they felt helpless and scared and made the wrong decision.

[thoughtful]

Herman Cain is a pig. And I think that's an insult to pigs, actually.

That's right!

[dawbs]

I told my son that the no.1 rule on a University campus is that if you see something happen - a crime - you call the TOWN POLICE. Not the administration, not the campus police. Because the town or city will take it seriously and not have the same investment of keeping enrollment up, maintaining the reputation of the school, etc.

My husband and I, when we were talking, agreed that patriarchal, hierarchical structures are the problem. If there had been women in the program, or out gay men, or other men not emotionally invested in the sport/their career/reputation, this probably wouldn't have happened. I see this as having the same problems the Catholic Church (and Boy Scouts) have - too much investment in protecting the organization, so that what is right becomes what is good for the organization.

Can I say that, if that's what he does, if it's not something he has to CALL on, to go in person.

I work on a campus and if I call 911, they will re-route me through to on-campus police.

Now, that's not *all* bad; if I'm calling 911, the officer in the building is who is close enough to rescue me. But if I want to make sure the crime scene is handled appropriately and that the administration doesn't foul it up, it's not so helpful.

[Cassandra]

The problem with going through the Campus police as opposed to town police is that if the campus police have to deal with a situation the criminal (student rapist, etc) may only be punished through the college and not legally.

There are a lot of cases of assault on college campuses where the perpetrator gets off with academic sanctions but no 'real world' punishment.

eta: I go to a large state school in the middle of a city and there's a main street that goes through and on one side of the street is campus and the other is in the city's jurisdiction.

I've been advised multiple times by university staff and students that if I want to do something illegal it's always better to do it on the campus side of that street. Usually that pertains to underage drinking, but it still applies to all crimes.

[ADoyle90815]

That's true about campus police, that if a rapist is a student, they're more likely to be punished by the school, and not the law. When I was at the university, one thing women were told was to avoid the upper floors of the library at night because of reported rapes in the building.

[Sparkle]

What I don't understand about the PSU situation-

Ok, there's a chain of command. Fabulous. But HOW, in YEARS of this happening, did no one decide to follow up on stuff? I still place a ton of blame on the grad assistant-he saw it with his OWN eyes. Was he afraid that he'd lose his position for going to the police? Sue the school if that happens.

How 8-10 kids' parents/siblings/teachers/doctors/friends, etc didn't notice anything. Yeah, teenagers have behavior issues sometimes. My dad wasn't the greatest, but he noticed when something was wrong. I can't believe that only 1 parent admitted they noticed "something", but did nothing about it.

The story I saw today (http://t.co/UfWhmK92) about the Pittsburgh dad protesting outside the game-that broke my heart. Verbally and physically assaulted by drunk students and fans because he wants to make them *think*. According to the man, only one person came up to him to say he agreed with his signs. Hundreds, if not thousands, probably watched a few dozen bad people attack this man...did nothing about it.

My heart hurts with what this society has become.