Oh yeah, Lina's pregnant...

[maybeizfundie]

Mothering mag is an interesting place (well, the forums are the "place", not the magazine)

Most definitely *not* fundie, though it has some fundie readers/members. Huge mishmash of all kinds of people who do the Natural Living thing. Circ is *out*. There is no discussion/debate, it's just unacceptable. Even in the religion section of the forums, discusion of circ for religious reasons is heavily controlled because it is soooo inflammatory.

A lot of people pick and choose though, and ignore whatever they don't find helpful. I imagine that's what Lina will do with regards to circumcision, although there are a few people on the forums who identify as Jews but do not circumcise (???).

[Katiebug]

Mothering is full of the batshit crazy, including some fundies. I'm pretty sure even the Jewish moms aren't supposed to/allowed to talk about circumcision for religious reasons and they're encouraged to do a non-circ naming ceremony instead.

If you're not a SAHM who had a homebirth at all costs, is homeschooling/unschooling/spending tons of money that you don't have on Waldorf toys, forcibly converting your household to "family cloth" instead of toilet paper, and convincing your husband to restore his foreskin, then you're not crunchy enough for MDC. I work and put my kid in ebil daycare so I'd pretty much be persona non grata there but I've been a lurker for years even before I had a baby. The snark factor is excellent for entertainment.

[bea]

MDC made me cuh-ray-zee when I was pregnant. If you didn't toe the party line in entirety, you were persona non grata. Which is a shame, really, because there's people there who know a LOT about things like breastfeeding, increasing milk supply, etc. and they're only willing to help you if you're also a non-vaxing homebirthing unschooling whateveritis.

I found my home on thebabywearer.com - much more useful. And much more friendly.

I'm just counting the days until Lina comes back, or opens up a new blog full of nutty goodness. Surely she can't just sit in that apartment all day washing TT's undies and lighting scented candles without going batshit insane, can she?

[Deleted03]

Mothering mag is an interesting place (well, the forums are the "place", not the magazine)

Most definitely *not* fundie, though it has some fundie readers/members. Huge mishmash of all kinds of people who do the Natural Living thing. Circ is *out*. There is no discussion/debate, it's just unacceptable. Even in the religion section of the forums, discusion of circ for religious reasons is heavily controlled because it is soooo inflammatory.

A lot of people pick and choose though, and ignore whatever they don't find helpful. I imagine that's what Lina will do with regards to circumcision, although there are a few people on the forums who identify as Jews but do not circumcise (???).

This. Some of my friends read it. And they don't deny AIDS at all. I never heard about that. I know the magazine takes a hard stance pro-breastfeeding and have sometimes disagreed with my friends over that.

[Sinister Rouge]

Mothering is full of the batshit crazy, including some fundies. I'm pretty sure even the Jewish moms aren't supposed to/allowed to talk about circumcision for religious reasons and they're encouraged to do a non-circ naming ceremony instead.

If you're not a SAHM who had a homebirth at all costs, is homeschooling/unschooling/spending tons of money that you don't have on Waldorf toys, forcibly converting your household to "family cloth" instead of toilet paper, and convincing your husband to restore his foreskin, then you're not crunchy enough for MDC. quote]

I really enjoy Mothering magazine, but MDC can be pure, unadulterated insanity. It's not exclusively fundie, but there sure are plenty of them, and they have plenty to say. On the family boards, a woman suffering from spousal abuse is usually pounced on by "helpmeets" and encouraged to work it out anyway. The family cloth obsession is grossss. And every other recipe is a variation of rice and beans because they're all from broke single-income families but insist on all-organic Whole Foods fare. Come to think of it, I bet Emily looooooves MDC. Does anyone know if the HIV/Aids denialism thing from MDC or the magazine? Because as crazy crunchy as the magazine is ("Mongolian husbands use their wive's breastmilk in their cereal, yum yum!!1!") there's some good stuff in there, and I would be sincerely shocked if they published stuff like that.

[atheistjd]

This. Some of my friends read it. And they don't deny AIDS at all. I never heard about that. I know the magazine takes a hard stance pro-breastfeeding and have sometimes disagreed with my friends over that.

I have a really vague recollection that the HIV/AIDs denialism had to do with breastfeeding (breastfeed regardless of positive status?) but can't remember...

[Deleted03]

I have a really vague recollection that the HIV/AIDs denialism had to do with breastfeeding (breastfeed regardless of positive status?) but can't remember...

That would make sense with their crazy breastfeeding stance. At the same time, a friend of mine was pressured by the nurses to breastfeed even though she is on immunodepressants that haven't been tested with breastmilk. Like really pressured. So the pro-breastfeeding are just everywhere nowadays.

[Heaps of Eeps]

In all my years of reading Mothering I have never seen anything about HIV/Aids denialism, they dont even say DO NOT VACCINATE, more like "here is some information and research and opinions about vaccines" the whole magazine is super hippy natural family slanted. Yes there were extreme mothers on MDC they are pretty easy to spot and avoid and in my due date month there were homebirthers, women getting c sections, all sorts.

I think someone edited their wiki page and they have not noticed.

[atheistjd]

That would make sense with their crazy breastfeeding stance. At the same time, a friend of mine was pressured by the nurses to breastfeed even though she is on immunodepressants that haven't been tested with breastmilk. Like really pressured. So the pro-breastfeeding are just everywhere nowadays.

Hole crap... a quick google search reveals that it's pretty much run the spectrum of denialism @ Mothering... (http://www.healtoronto.com/mothering.html); we've got the hiv =/= aids denialists, the hiv doesn't come from breastmilk breastfeeding crazies, and the ARVs will kill your unborn baby nuts. Christ.

Edited b/c I know the difference between retrovirals and ANTIretrovirals...

[formergothardite]

Didn't they have a cover featuring an HIV positive pregnant woman with AIDs written on her belly and it then crossed out? Didn't she and her baby end up dying because of denying that HIV caused AIDs or something like that? I can't remember. MDC is full of crazy. There were people who claimed germs didn't exist or somthing like that.

[raineymott]

MDC = mothering.com?

[MonkeyMomma]

Didn't they have a cover featuring an HIV positive pregnant woman with AIDs written on her belly and it then crossed out? Didn't she and her baby end up dying because of denying that HIV caused AIDs or something like that? I can't remember. MDC is full of crazy. There were people who claimed germs didn't exist or somthing like that.

Yes: Christine Maggiore and her daughter Eliza Jane Scovill both died from AIDS related causes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Maggiore

MDC = mothering.com?

Yes, also know as "MotheringDotCommunity" and "the Commune."

To be fair, I'm a member of MDC, and I is/was a daycare mom, fully vaccinating, hospital birth. I joined when I was pregnant as part of their due date club (DDC). Our DDC ran the gamut from crunchy mainstream, and was filled with really kind women. They were and continue to be a great support system, and I met one of my best IRL mom-type friends through it.

[maybeizfundie]

MDC here too, though one of the less active partcipants.

They have no idea how un-crunchy I am. :D But I found the birth and pregnancy loss forums helpful over the years. And some of the other subforums, to a lesser extent.

[raineymott]

Interesting...I'm in the December ddc and love it. Could just be this group of women tho...I don't visit the other parts of the forum.

[Beeks]

I'm also a member though pretty inactive. I post on the special needs parenting board and everyone there was pretty cool.

The whole HIV/AIDS denial thing sort of blows my mind, but I sort of get it too (not to the point of breastfeeding my children and needlessly increasing the risk, but I could see doing all the research and looking into alternative treatments and whatnot).

As to the anti-circ stuff I'm sure if Lina has a boy she will just explain why Jewish people have been doing that wrong for thousands of years. :lol:

[emmiedahl]

I used to be a pretty active MDC member, but I tapered off when it got too crazy. I am a breastfeeding, babywearing AP nut and I am *NOT* extreme enough for them. It got old being beat upside the head for bad parenting every day because I use a stroller.

[Constance Vigilance]

The whole HIV/AIDS denial thing sort of blows my mind, but I sort of get it too (not to the point of breastfeeding my children and needlessly increasing the risk, but I could see doing all the research and looking into alternative treatments and whatnot).

The problem is that the research is really, really clear that HIV causes AIDS, anti-retrovirals during pregnancy hugely prevent transmission to unborn children, etc. This isn't one of those issues where there are alternative hypotheses within the medical/scientific community, or something like vaccination where you can do a lot of thinking and make your own risk/value judgement (even if I may really disagree with it). On this one there's just the reality of HIV/AIDS, and then fringe nutjobs.

You have to wilfully ignore a lot of basic reality to have access to that info and still engage in HIV/AIDS denial.

(Not aimed at you, because I have no problem with people doing their own research. Just at the people who have done that research and still gone "la la la can't heeeeear you".)

[Effie]

Oh my:

Maggiore's influence on Thabo Mbeki's decision to block funding of medical treatment of HIV-positive pregnant woman was criticized following her death, with medical researchers noting a Harvard study which estimated "330,000 lives were lost to new AIDS infections during the time Mbeki blocked government funding of AZT treatment to mothers."[20]

[Constance Vigilance]

Yeah, and that lunatic doctor who thinks you can cure it with vitamins because he once dropped vitamin C on some cells and they looked funny :/. There's a lot of blood on his hands.

[Beeks]

The problem is that the research is really, really clear that HIV causes AIDS, anti-retrovirals during pregnancy hugely prevent transmission to unborn children, etc. This isn't one of those issues where there are alternative hypotheses within the medical/scientific community, or something like vaccination where you can do a lot of thinking and make your own risk/value judgement (even if I may really disagree with it). On this one there's just the reality of HIV/AIDS, and then fringe nutjobs.

You have to wilfully ignore a lot of basic reality to have access to that info and still engage in HIV/AIDS denial.

(Not aimed at you, because I have no problem with people doing their own research. Just at the people who have done that research and still gone "la la la can't heeeeear you".)

Oh no, I know. I didn't really phrase it clearly. I meant I could understand desperate hope that there wasn't another answer, and that it wasn't as devastating (in 1992 HIV/AIDS was still pretty deadly I believe). I could see going off on wild goose chases and trying everything and anything. I just don't see putting a child at risk or advocating for other people to do the same.

[Koala]

Chiming in to say that I think toilet paper is a wonderful invention, and I bless the person who thought of it. Sorry, but I think family cloth is all kinds of yuck.

[MaroonMandy]

I just Googled family cloth and....ewwww. That information can't be scrubbed from my head. How is that sanitary? And who the hell decided it would be a good idea?

[LIzzieB]

If someone converts with a Sephardi community, yes, then they could become 'Sephardi' in an adopted sense. But you need to do it in the context of a community. You can't really decide to become one thing or another on your own.

Thanks, Soldier of One! Sorry, if this is now a bit irrelevant in the context of MDC, but this is one of the downfalls of living in an opposite time zone. Lots of chats happen here when I'm asleep and my discussions aren't so relevant anymore. So basically, we again have Lina & TT claiming to be something without the surrounding context to do so? Bad enough that they are claiming to be Orthodox Jews, without having converted, but now they are claiming a cultural identity without any contact with a Sephardi community? :roll:

[Patsy]

MonkeyMomma already answered this, but watch me go on a little rant anyway:

Didn't they have a cover featuring an HIV positive pregnant woman with AIDs written on her belly and it then crossed out? Didn't she and her baby end up dying because of denying that HIV caused AIDs or something like that? I can't remember. MDC is full of crazy. There were people who claimed germs didn't exist or somthing like that.

Christine Maggiore. Breastfed her baby while HIV+ despite medical advice (also assuming she didn't take the drugs that reduce HIV transmission to baby during pregnancy and birth.) Kid died of a type of pneumonia that basically only people w. AIDS ever get, but nooooo, it wasn't AIDS! She didn't give her kids AIDS! Then Christine ALSO died of an illness NOBODY in America gets today UNLESS they have AIDS, but again, noooo, it wasn't AIDS you guys, she was just super stressed out by how MEAN the AIDS advocates were being to her!

And on South Africa: I believe it was the TAC http://www.tac.org.za/community/ who said that charges of genocide should have been brought against Mbeki and Tshabalala-Msimang. I'm inclined to agree. Those idiots illegally suppressed the truth against tidal waves of evidence and allowed for so much idiocy that hundreds of thousands of people were misled, and suffered, and died. I have no patience for denialism. The evidence for the most basic facts (HIV exists, it causes AIDS, AIDS compounded by poverty has an entirely different appearance to poverty alone, the antiretrovirals can have side-effects but NOT side-effects that mirror AIDS effects, and people with advanced AIDS improve their condition when put on them, antiretrovirals are generally the best treatment, no, eating garlic won't heal you you fucking idiot) is overwhelming and undeniable.

[Beeks]

Thanks, Soldier of One! Sorry, if this is now a bit irrelevant in the context of MDC, but this is one of the downfalls of living in an opposite time zone. Lots of chats happen here when I'm asleep and my discussions aren't so relevant anymore. So basically, we again have Lina & TT claiming to be something without the surrounding context to do so? Bad enough that they are claiming to be Orthodox Jews, without having converted, but now they are claiming a cultural identity without any contact with a Sephardi community? :roll:

At one point Lina mentioned that TT has decided they would be sephardic. Does anybody know his ethnic/cultural background? He comes from a family of fake Jews, right? Maybe they have always practiced sephardic traditions?