"She only does it to annoy, because she knows it teases"

[fundiefan]

something about trying to remember her days of infant training and the 'line' between spoiling and being manipulated and giving security. ??????

Dear! God! In! Heaven!

Where is her maternal instinct?

I'm going to type this and then I'm going to go have a glass of wine, I can't take it, honestly: You've just adopted a new baby into your family, it's your first night with her -- excuse me, HER first night with you -- and your concern is that you not be manipulated?

Dear Lady God in Heaven, please do not let me stroke out over this!

Oh, my God! Literally! I'd've had that baby on my lap, myself in a rocking chair, or spooned with her, forget the co-sleep box!

I gotta go. Love you guys, but I can FEEL the bp rising.

Merlot, don't fail me now.

Yeah. That. I pretty much ran to the bottle after reading it. I wasn't in a car - I was alone, so no one to manipulate - but I felt sick and had to deal with it. I chose beer over wine, but had the same reaction.

And that is exactly why there will never be one thing she says, no matter how she presents it, that I can or will accept.

I hate her. I use the word hate begrudgingly because I see it as an emotion, not a thought. But she broke through all my preconceived notions and I hate her.

[fundiefan]

Here is the original post.

vitafamiliae.com/?p=3687

I'm no good at url's that aren't linked...so if it doesn't work, it's in their archives dated Feb. 13, 2011.

I forgot this little tidbit.

I helped her do the sign for “Please†and then I pulled her out and hugged her close. We had us a good cuddle and I even let her doze a bit on my chest as a reward.

OK, I am done. I am following along with others and walking away.

[valsa]

Nice, just found this on the blog-

With our wheels returned to us, we had planned to take several day trips to visit family this week. But Mira has had some sort of strange allergic reaction/cold and we felt it would be better if we didn’t risk passing on some sort of virus to our loved ones.

I did not [emphasis her's], however, have the same respect for the general public’s health and well-being. Which is how I have found myself at the DMV and Hobby Lobby with all six kids.

Sure, avoid spreading your kid's cold to your relatives but fuck everyone else. Yeah, that's really Christian.

[Kelya]

Her post about swimming got me and I wrote a rather annoyed comment-if you really need a third adult, hire one, or better yet, sign your kids up for swimming lessons so they're safe around water. I know its a lot more fun to post angsty fake oh my life is so hard shit about your herd, but this is a really simple problem with a simple solution: bring another adult until more of the kids can swim on their own. Fin.

Needless to say it didn't and won't probably get approved. This woman pisses me off, she's stupid and racist and just downright gross.

[fundiefan]

I'm sure I am naive and ignorant since I haven't raised kids but don't parents give their kids swimming lessons? If not for enjoyment but for basic safety? And, if you have six kids who don't know how to keep themselves afloat, what kind of stupidity leads you to take them all to a pool in the first place?

[Aislynn]

This is total Deja vu for me. My parents bought into the order of the family crap that the first born would be automatically rebellious and strong willed from birth. They named me a. "weak" name so that I would "live up to it" and they still love to tell the story of how I would manipulate them, at nine months old, by crying in my car seat until I threw up.

I've had violent car sickness for as long as I can remember but if I bring that up they can't imagine it had anything to do with my willfull manipulation as an infant.

[PBrooke]

What I want to know is: why live in Alabama, when you're a stone's throw away from the coast, it's hot as hell, and people have pools if they possibly can - and NOT give your kids swimming lessons? Especially when, oh, say, you take your children to visit their grandparents and they have a treehouse smack in the middle of a lake?

That is PURPOSELY making your life more difficult. Also note that one of the first comments is from Bekah (one of her younger sisters who is over 18) chiming in that she'd gladly help watch the kids. Someone likes playing the martyr, drama-style.

[Mompom]

It sounds to me like she is falling into the trap of appearances and fantasy family. In her mind she has the perfect way she thinks it needs to be, so she will do what it takes to get there.

She will:

Go swimming even though she hates it because that's the way it should be.

Hate swimming because it's not picture perfect.

Force her daughter to be separated from her because that is what parents are told in these circles.

You will find fundies:

Homeschooling even though they may be stressed and depressed. Not all are, but a few who feel like they have to keep up the fantasy image.

Harshly disciplining to have perfect kids.

At every turn, fundamentalists are taught to counter what your instincts tell you because they are base, weak, and wrong. So she may feel like she wants to pick up her daughter, but she can't because that is giving in to her base instincts and harming her daughter. In her mind, she knows what she wants her family to look like and she's willing to suffer and make other suffer to get there. I know because I was there. And when I left, let me tell you EVERYTHING was better. I was free. My kids were free. I could enjoy my kids. What a pleasure that was! If you haven't been fundie then you simply have no idea the misery you are in. Because nothing, ever is about simply enjoying your kids. Not for a moment. Because as soon as you start being silly, then the kids do something that violates your principles and then Kendall style, you have to nip every.single.thing. in the bud. You must never "give a foothold" to Satan.

It's so sad. Pity her. She's more miserable even than her kids. And someday she will have so much regret. I've seen it. It's heartbreaking.

[ladypuglover]

I'm sure I am naive and ignorant since I haven't raised kids but don't parents give their kids swimming lessons? If not for enjoyment but for basic safety? And, if you have six kids who don't know how to keep themselves afloat, what kind of stupidity leads you to take them all to a pool in the first place?

yes, most parents have a trained swim instructer tech their child.ren to swim. For example my 11 year old is in his 10th year of swimming lessons and if he was old enough he could take his life guard test like his older brothers did. But he and his little brother will when old enough so that they make work with younger scouts when they are older teens. Swimming lessons are very important to a child and my kids with cub/boy scouts really have to know what they are doing as they are always in water/white water with scouts.

I really wish that swimming lessons were taught/offered for free to all school children from early grade school to high school. It is that important!

[ChunkyBarbie]

As someone who has had motion sickness all her life, all I've got to say is this- fuck you, lady.

I see that she says Mira throws up when she's in the car for a while. I don't know about other people who get motion sick but mine starts out mild, then gets worse and worse the longer I'm in the car. Eventually it gets to the point that I would throw up if I don't roll down a window, stick my head practically all the way out of it, then "play dead" by not talking or having my eyes open or even thinking about anything. Since I doubt Mira has that option, she just may have motion sickness.

Yes! I used to get sick riding around town as a kid. I still get sick if I sit in the back in my really late 20s (41). That bitch can suck it.

[keeperrox]

I wonder if this is why the whole "FJians want to steal your BABIES!!!!!" thing started? Because I SO want to steal away Mira and love her like she should be loved. Not like that cold-hearted, brainwashed, bitch does.

[MamaJunebug]

Here is the original post.

vitafamiliae.com/?p=3687

I'm no good at url's that aren't linked...so if it doesn't work, it's in their archives dated Feb. 13, 2011.

I forgot this little tidbit.

I helped her do the sign for “Please†and then I pulled her out and hugged her close. We had us a good cuddle and I even let her doze a bit on my chest as a reward.

OK, I am done. I am following along with others and walking away.

Thank you all for helping me calm down by showing that *our ways are sensible.

On the off chance that someone is reading, here, who is on the fence about vitafamiliae's attitude, please listen to me: Dozing on Mom's chest is not a child's reward--It Is A Child's RIGHT.

Walking away for good now, from this thread. God bless Mira, please.

[booksnbeats]

Please, friend, it's not "the Christian lesson." It's the lesson of some very self-centered, unthinking people who somehow are Christians.

I don't mean to scold ... I just hate seeing the entire religion tarred with the brush that's really needed for a small, nasty minority that includes the Pearls, Vita Familiaes and others of their preening ilk.

:think: Hm... brush... tar.... feathers would add a certain je ne sais quoi, now I think about it..... ;)

Sorry! I know exactly what you mean...I was just being clueless when I typed that. I grew up Catholic and Episcopalian and have no beef with Christians. What I meant was "Gothardite" :)

[camdendayton]

fundiefan wrote:

I'm sure I am naive and ignorant since I haven't raised kids but don't parents give their kids swimming lessons? If not for enjoyment but for basic safety? And, if you have six kids who don't know how to keep themselves afloat, what kind of stupidity leads you to take them all to a pool in the first place?

yes, most parents have a trained swim instructer tech their child.ren to swim. For example my 11 year old is in his 10th year of swimming lessons and if he was old enough he could take his life guard test like his older brothers did. But he and his little brother will when old enough so that they make work with younger scouts when they are older teens. Swimming lessons are very important to a child and my kids with cub/boy scouts really have to know what they are doing as they are always in water/white water with scouts.

I really wish that swimming lessons were taught/offered for free to all school children from early grade school to high school. It is that important!

More children under 12 drown than die from accidental gun shots (or any gun related violence for that matter). I'm pretty sure they talk about that in freakenomics. (Such an ebil book, it also makes the case that the drop in crime since the 90s is a direct result of abortion access!!) I took swim lessons from before I could walk, and was on a college swim team (so Defrauding!) So needless to say my kids will be taking swim lessons from birth.

Just another example of the Fundies being irresponsible w/ their blessings!

[camdendayton]

Or does she need more holding than she's getting, when they aren't on the road? Is she a particularly pretty child? Soemtimes it's easier to excuse outre' behavior when the perp is a cutie, and easier to get impatient when it's a homely li'l thing.

Poor kid. I guarantee 100 percent that even if she hates the car seat she isn't wilfully puking to wind mum up. These people really believe that children are nothing but wee balls of evil, don't they.

This. Because throwing up is so much fun, kids always do it on purpose... :roll: That is their sinful nature! It is b/c of sin that they cannot express themselves better and aren't considerate to their mammas of many :roll: :roll:

She talks about dying to self yet she is so inward-looking. Seems like she never thinks that some people can't even feed their six kids, while she is making a trip with hers to the pool sound like a day in the killing fields.

This too. Same ol, same ol....

People get sick when stressed. It is not intentional or controllable. Children are no exception.

This threee :)

from vitafamiliae.com/?page_id=3

All donations and prayers gratefully accepted.

Why am I still surprised by this? Barf...

[apple1]

yes, most parents have a trained swim instructer tech their child.ren to swim. For example my 11 year old is in his 10th year of swimming lessons and if he was old enough he could take his life guard test like his older brothers did. But he and his little brother will when old enough so that they make work with younger scouts when they are older teens. Swimming lessons are very important to a child and my kids with cub/boy scouts really have to know what they are doing as they are always in water/white water with scouts.

I really wish that swimming lessons were taught/offered for free to all school children from early grade school to high school. It is that important!

THAT. I invested a lot of time/energy/money into getting a professional to teach my kids to swim and to swim very well. I started with group classes and eventually transitioned to private lessons.

We are already talking about at what age my grandchild (still an infant right now) will be able to start learning to swim.

This is a huge investment in both safety and future enjoyment. I highly recommend it.

[Rosa]

Apple1, I went to middle school in a river town that had regular floods, and they had a swimming program in gym and a pool in the middle school - had since the 1920s, I think (the middle school had been built as a high school, with a pool in it, just after WWI). Our swimsuits were from the '60s :P My son is actually having a swimming lesson today through the public parks summer program, it's not free but the cost is built into the cost of the program.

My understanding is that in a lot of places there aren't public school swimming programs because of old segregation/desegregation - in a lot of places public pools were just closed, rather than desegregate them.

Not teaching your kids to swim and having them around pools and lakes is just irresponsible.

[fundifugee]

Yeah. Go back to their time in Africa picking Mira up. They were in the hotel and had Mira in a co-sleeper next to the bed. Mira kept crying and trying to curl up next to Vitamom. Vitamom kept pushing her away to 'train' her, saying something about trying to remember her days of infant training and the 'line' between spoiling and being manipulated and giving security. Never considering the security a child in a foreign environment may need. In the end she believed she found the right balance by allowing Mira's leg to touch hers. That one leg was 'allowed' outside the co-sleeper and onto the bed to touch her.

It made me sick. The kind of sick that comes from emotions. The kind that honestly turned my stomach and was not a choice. Although if it were possible to make myself sick without sticking my finger down my throat I would have done so right on top of her in that bed.

**Edited because I always have to edit because I am really bad at writing thoughts.

wah!!! And they then complain that the adopted kids have attachment 'disorders'? No kidding!! I treated puppies better than that. They just left their home, they need snuggles and reassurance. And having lived in Uganda, I can assure you that NOBODY sleeps alone, especially not babies and little kids. They're in bed with the mom until they want to leave.

Poor Mira.

[treemom]

something about trying to remember her days of infant training and the 'line' between spoiling and being manipulated and giving security. ??????

Dear! God! In! Heaven!

Where is her maternal instinct?

I'm going to type this and then I'm going to go have a glass of wine, I can't take it, honestly: You've just adopted a new baby into your family, it's your first night with her -- excuse me, HER first night with you -- and your concern is that you not be manipulated?

Dear Lady God in Heaven, please do not let me stroke out over this!

Oh, my God! Literally! I'd've had that baby on my lap, myself in a rocking chair, or spooned with her, forget the co-sleep box!

I gotta go. Love you guys, but I can FEEL the bp rising.

Merlot, don't fail me now.

I would have put a sheet and blanket on the floor and laid down with her there if she was so scared of her falling off the bed.

[fundifugee]

Andrew and I flew from Dallas to London for the first long leg of our trip. We knew we needed to sleep, so we popped some Ambien and prepared for lights out. I fell right to sleep, missing dinner completely, but Andrew picked at some airline food before taking his first ever Ambien. (I had taken Ambien lots of times during various pregnancies and was very excited at the prospect of some Ambien-induced sleep, or, as I like to call it “the golden pill.â€)

Happily popping Ambien during various pregnancies? Holy frigging fetal drain bamage, woman!

This female obviously has some serious drive for reality escapage going on.

I would only prescribe Ambien (or other benzodiazepines) during pregnancy if the risk of fetal brain damage was outweighed by the risk of the mom being seriously stark raving self- and child-harming crazy.

[treemom]

Her post about swimming got me and I wrote a rather annoyed comment-if you really need a third adult, hire one, or better yet, sign your kids up for swimming lessons so they're safe around water. I know its a lot more fun to post angsty fake oh my life is so hard shit about your herd, but this is a really simple problem with a simple solution: bring another adult until more of the kids can swim on their own. Fin.

Needless to say it didn't and won't probably get approved. This woman pisses me off, she's stupid and racist and just downright gross.

Or, don't take all the kids. Conquer and divide. have one parent take one or two.

[treemom]

I will chime in on swimming lessons. We moved into our house with a pool when my son was 4 months old. He didn't get swimming lessons, but both my husband and I are excellent swimmers and I was a lifeguard.

He did well without them and we worked with him. But we would have gotten them if he didn't do well.

I always say she has fake modesty and self deprecation. I think the swimming post was a classic LL example of ...oh we are so bad with the really look how great we are subtext!

[Hane]

Mira may not be suffering from car sickness--maybe she's sensitive to the fumes emitted by the chemicals in the car's interior. I read of an experiment on a child whose car sickness was inconsistent (in some cars but not others). His parents tried sitting him (with toys and an adult observer) in their closed car, parked under a tree, and he was nauseated within a few minutes.

Oh, and I had wicked car sickness as a child, made worse by my parents' smoking. Good times!

[dcmhejbl62]

Happily popping Ambien during various pregnancies? Holy frigging fetal drain bamage, woman!

This female obviously has some serious drive for reality escapage going on.

I would only prescribe Ambien (or other benzodiazepines) during pregnancy if the risk of fetal brain damage was outweighed by the risk of the mom being seriously stark raving self- and child-harming crazy.

Not at all to defend this woman, but I was prescribed Ambien twice during pregnancy. My hormones get way out of whack while pregnant, and I went a week or two without sleeping. At ALL. I struggle with insomnia all the time but that was unlike anything I'd experienced.

I only took the Ambien a couple of times because even it didn't help... I actually forgot now what finally got me to sleep. But my point is, my doctor didn't bat an eye about giving me the prescription, and that was back when they wouldn't let pregnant mamas have caffeine. She may just be following (a foolish) doctor's orders.

[Witsec1]

Happily popping Ambien during various pregnancies? Holy frigging fetal drain bamage, woman!

This female obviously has some serious drive for reality escapage going on.

I would only prescribe Ambien (or other benzodiazepines) during pregnancy if the risk of fetal brain damage was outweighed by the risk of the mom being seriously stark raving self- and child-harming crazy.

Wha-at? Taking Ambien during pregnancy? During various pregnancies? I can't imagine. It would take something life-threatening for me take anything that hadn't been rigorously tested for safety in pregancy.