US House of Representatives 4: Day One And The Clown Caucus is Already in Disarray.

[GreyhoundFan]

 

2 hours ago, noseybutt said:

Can someone explain why they keep taking these doomed votes?

 I mean, generally if you want to calm a tantrumming toddler it’s better to step over them and continue with life or sit next to them engrossed in something fascinating. Negotiation is futile.

This is an explanation:

 

[Shrubbery]

Now the GQP clown show starts randomly chanting USA! USA! - is this still Congress or already absurd theatre?

(also more life stories and mother memories from the member from Arizona  - yet another speaker candidate to be?)

[Xan]

It just occurred to me how screwed McCarthy actually is.  He can't change the rules to be elected by a plurality because Jeffries would win.  He can't ask members to vote "present" to pull down the total he'd need for the same reason.  He's now got 20 holdouts.  Jeffries is steady at 212 and McCarthy can't seem to pull above 200.

Tenth vote is going on now.  Hern has already picked up 3 votes.  Donalds has picked up 2.  It looks like McCarthy will lose again.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Xan

[Destiny]

3 hours ago, noseybutt said:

Can someone explain why they keep taking these doomed votes?

 I mean, generally if you want to calm a tantrumming toddler it’s better to step over them and continue with life or sit next to them engrossed in something fascinating. Negotiation is futile.

Constitutionally, the only thing they CAN do is elect a Speaker. They aren’t even really Congresscritters yet, because they can’t even be sworn in until there is a speaker. 

Even my petty enjoyment of the humiliation is waning. This is pissing me the actual fuck off.

[Ozlsn]

4 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Constitutionally, the only thing they CAN do is elect a Speaker. They aren’t even really Congresscritters yet, because they can’t even be sworn in until there is a speaker. 

Even my petty enjoyment of the humiliation is waning. This is pissing me the actual fuck off.

Just vote for the top candidate already.  Seriously here, there must be 6 moderate Republicans who are over this in there somewhere?

[AnywhereButHere]

\

There really isn't. Presuming there ever is a Speaker, it's going to be a long and vicious two years.

[Xan]

The moderates are already voting for McCarthy.  The party (if we even can continue to call it that) is being held hostage by the extreme rightwing.  None of the Republicans will agree to cross the aisle and vote for Jeffries.  They're left with the weasel McCarthy or someone worse.

Hern now has 6 and Donalds has 4.  And there are still more of the holdout 20 who haven't yet voted.  I bet they'll call a recess and try to work the room again.

[onekidanddone]

Hunkering down

 

[noseybutt]

51 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

 

This is an explanation:

 

Ah. So basically they can’t do anything without a speaker so they keep voting for speaker because it’s the only thing they can do.

The problem with the holdouts is they know nothing McCarthy promises will come to pass. It’s no longer a prisoners’ dilemma that might force cooperation. It’s an assassins’ dilemma. 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by noseybutt

[TuringMachine]

From my understanding these are the ways this can end:

1. Enough republicans cross the aisle or abstain from voting for Hakeem Jeffries to win. Seems pretty unlikely but one can dream
2. Enough Democrats abstain from voting for McCarthy to win. Possible, but Democrats have little incentive to do so since this basically free pr for them. Maybe give it a few more votes. Or days.
3. The freedom caucus give up the fight and let McCarthy win. Likelihood ? because who ever knows with these people
4. Someone they like gains enough support to win (god I hope not)
5. McCarthy gives into all their demands. (hopefully) unlikely since that would involve giving up a lot of his power as speaker
6. McCarthy steps down and someone else runs (maybe Scalise?). But whoever that is might run into the same problems McCarthy is having
7. Moderates on both sides come together to select a moderate republican, assuming one still exists.

 

[GreyhoundFan]

 A helpful analysis: "What McCarthy’s concessions could cost him — and the GOP"

Quote

Kevin McCarthy is giving away an increasing share of the store in the name of salvaging his languishing campaign for House speaker. The would-be speaker has bent to the House Freedom Caucus’s will through a series of major concessions, despite little evidence this is actually swaying enough members, or really any members.

Twenty-one Republicans voted against him in the seventh, eighth and ninth ballots Thursday — the same number as on each ballot Wednesday, despite McCarthy’s allies suggesting they had made progress overnight.

At some point, McCarthy’s GOP backers need to ask themselves how much they’re willing to entertain this strategy before it goes too far for them. That’s because McCarthy’s concessions could not just negatively impact them and their vision for the House, but it makes it more likely that even a speaker not named McCarthy would have to match them.

And some are indeed starting to raise concerns about the trajectory of these negotiations, suggesting McCarthy risks robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Chris Stewart (R-Utah) confirmed to MSNBC that there is a breaking point at which he and his fellow McCarthy backers could bolt, saying, “Honestly, there’s many of us who feel like we’re very, very close to that at this point.”

Stewart added: “If you go beyond that, you really would reach a point where … we’re not going to be ruled by them. And I think we’re nearing that threshold now, where two things: There’s only so much you can ask for, and I think we’ve reached that. And then the second thing is, if you go beyond that, you’re going to begin to lose the support of the other 200. Kevin, I know, is aware of that, and I think he’s careful not to go beyond that line.”

Robert B. Aderholt (R-Ala.) raised similar concerns Thursday morning. Speaking to reporters, he particularly objected to the McCarthy holdouts’ requests for subcommittee chairmanships. Among other things, McCarthy opponent Andy Harris (R-Md.) has reportedly been pushing for a health-related subcommittee chairmanship that Aderholt is in line for.

“As far as skipping over people’s seniority, I think you’ve gone too far,” Aderholt said, according to Politico’s Sarah Ferris.

Committee assignments might be the most personal aspect of all this. The McCarthy holdouts have also sought to obtain a certain number of seats on the influential House Rules Committee — enough seats, it would seem, to join with Democrats to prevent virtually anything from reaching the floor.

But that latter issue also points to the broader significance of the concessions: They risk allowing the House Freedom Caucus and its allies to gum up the works in a closely divided House. Along those same lines, the McCarthy holdouts secured a major concession allowing just one member to force a vote to remove the speaker at any point, otherwise known as a motion to “vacate the chair.”

That could also increase the leverage of a handful of members over House business; indeed, a spokesperson for the last Republican speaker, Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) likened it to a “weapon pointed at [the speaker] all the time.” (This rule has existed for much of American history, but it looms larger with a very narrowly divided House and a Freedom Caucus willing to wreck shop.)

McCarthy allies are apparently beginning to ask themselves what all these concessions would mean for their ability to accomplish their goals — as they should, because of how far the Freedom Caucus has suggested (and even proven) it’s willing to go.

For example, one McCarthy holdout, Ralph Norman (R-S.C.), indicated Wednesday that to win his vote, McCarthy would need to be willing to shut down the government and default on the debt. Norman walked that back somewhat on Thursday. But it’s emblematic of what giving in to these members’ demands could portend.

If Aderholt and Stewart are serious about what they say, it could mean that whatever progress McCarthy makes with his right flank — to the extent that’s even possible — could come at the expense of his more-establishment supporters. And given he can only lose around four votes, that reinforces his vexing speakership math problem.

It also raises the unlikely scenario of a bipartisan deal to elect the speaker. We’ve been skeptical that enough Republicans would ever join with Democrats to elect a more moderate GOP speaker, and if it’s even possible that would appear a long ways off.

But if there’s truly no level of concessions that can get McCarthy to 218 votes, the process could be pushed in that direction. And at some point, enough McCarthy backers might decide the growing list of concessions — whether in a McCarthy speakership or because any GOP-elected replacement would also have to agree to them — is worse than having to cut a deal with Democrats.

Again, we haven’t reached that point. But even if McCarthy doesn’t ultimately win, the things he offers during that process matter. And the fact that we’re now hearing his supporters ring some alarm bells surely thickens the plot.

 

[Ozlsn]

22 minutes ago, TuringMachine said:

Moderates on both sides come together to select a moderate republican, assuming one still exists.

That would be a good solution, and could potentially declaw the freedom caucus. Too logical though.

[AlmostSavedAtTacoBell]

2 hours ago, fraurosena said:

Hilarious.

 

 

While I absolutely love the Ds reaction, that jackass speech infuriates me. If I thought that the nomination was a sincere one that was intended to genuinely make history and, more importantly, send a very clear message to all Rs that racism is unacceptable it would be different. It was, however, a performance. If any of those who are stumping for Donalds thought there was a slight chance he would actually become Speaker he never would have been nominated. The reaction from the Ds is perfect. It would have been great if, after the applause and cheers died down, someone would have yelled out, “Cool, so you’re voting for Jeffries now too?” 

[Destiny]

Fucking Gaetz y’all. FUCKING GAETZ!!!!

[47of74]

Another rider in the GQP clown car

Quote

A newly elected Republican congresswoman is engaged in a legal battle back home with political enemies who claim she's a witch.

A letter obtained by The Daily Beast shows Rep. Anna Paulina Luna (R-FL) has hired the law firm Holland & Knight to go after Michael Tito, an ally of Roger Stone who considered a primary challenge against her, over a series of bizarre claims about her on the Tampa-based "Bubba the Love Sponge" radio show, reported The Daily Beast.

“I am sending you this letter because of the defamatory statements you made about Ms. Luna on the Show,” wrote attorney David J. Lisko in the Oct. 7 letter.

The letter claims Tito knew his allegations, which including claims that Luna practices witchcraft, was fired from her job and had a sexual liaison with Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL), and said the former Marine Corps captain had exercised "gross negligence" in making statements about her that were "unlikely to be true.”

I'm so over all these fuck sticks in the GQP clown car

[Ozlsn]

3 hours ago, Destiny said:

Fucking Gaetz y’all. FUCKING GAETZ!!!!

I am in total agreement with this sentiment and add in "which fuckwits voted for this idiot??"

[Ozlsn]

Opinion on breaking the stalemate.  What is irritating me is the focus on what the Democrats should do - uh no guys, if anyone should be reaching out to get support for a moderate candidate it's probably the Republicans given it's their mess. But they want to have their cake and eat it too, and better yet, blame the chaos on the opposition party. If you have a majority and can't come to a consensus then maybe the moderate Republicans need to put on their big boy/girl pants and reach across the aisle. If nothing else it might show they have some semblance of how to actually work in this environment.

[Xan]

20 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Opinion on breaking the stalemate.  What is irritating me is the focus on what the Democrats should do - uh no guys, if anyone should be reaching out to get support for a moderate candidate it's probably the Republicans given it's their mess. But they want to have their cake and eat it too, and better yet, blame the chaos on the opposition party. If you have a majority and can't come to a consensus then maybe the moderate Republicans need to put on their big boy/girl pants and reach across the aisle. If nothing else it might show they have some semblance of how to actually work in this environment.

Thank you.  I'm already sick of them speculating on what the Democrats should do.  Nothing.  This is the Republicans' mess.  They can be the ones who try to find a middle ground.  Five of them can peel off and vote for Jeffries.  Problem solved.

[ADoyle90815]

Ready for the next House session.

[TuringMachine]

2 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Opinion on breaking the stalemate.  What is irritating me is the focus on what the Democrats should do - uh no guys, if anyone should be reaching out to get support for a moderate candidate it's probably the Republicans given it's their mess. But they want to have their cake and eat it too, and better yet, blame the chaos on the opposition party. If you have a majority and can't come to a consensus then maybe the moderate Republicans need to put on their big boy/girl pants and reach across the aisle. If nothing else it might show they have some semblance of how to actually work in this environment.

Exactly! Why should the democrats do anything? McCarthy is reaping what he sowed. He enabled this idiots and now he's letting them control the party. Either start negotiating with the dems or step down and let someone who's willing take the seat.

[Smash!]

Holy shit, even my SO who is not very interested in US politics knows what‘s going on. I‘m off to read Heather Cox Richardson‘s analysis of this mess. 

[Becky]

6 hours ago, ADoyle90815 said:

Ready for the next House session.

I'd love to send some to Nancy Pelosi.  

[formergothardite]

8 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Opinion on breaking the stalemate.  What is irritating me is the focus on what the Democrats should do - uh no guys, if anyone should be reaching out to get support for a moderate candidate it's probably the Republicans given it's their mess. But they want to have their cake and eat it too, and better yet, blame the chaos on the opposition party. If you have a majority and can't come to a consensus then maybe the moderate Republicans need to put on their big boy/girl pants and reach across the aisle. If nothing else it might show they have some semblance of how to actually work in this environment.

ITA. The democrats just need to stand back and let the GOP fall to pieces. The republicans are finding out that when you make a deal with the devil you always lose in the end. 

[GreyhoundFan]

 

[GreyhoundFan]

This is just lovely. :s