Harry & Meghan 9: Pretending to Be Relevant

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

Even though it is the Daily Fail  Harry and Meghan have to be even more out of touch  with reality and entitled than I thought if they were actually thinking King WA and Queen Maxima would cater to them or even assist them in anyway like that. Given the ties and huge respect the European monarchs have for QEII  as well as the drama that follows in their wake these two will have made themselves blackballed in the small tight related Clique that is senior royalty.

I don’t think the article claimed that they had wanted to stay with the Dutch royals.  I think it was more that the press brought it up, and the DF is making a big deal of it.

What I think the DM got right is that security experts judge a greater risk at the Invictus Games than at the Memorial for Phillip.  It is perfectly logical that they would be.

While Harry and Meghan may feel that the risk in the Netherlands is outweighed by the demands of their commitment to the games (and their documentary) one would think that honoring his grandfather and visiting his grandmother would have outweighed Harry’s hesitation about attending the far-less-dangerous memorial service. 🤷‍♀️

[MomJeans]

The Dutch gun laws are as strict the U.K. gun laws.  It was always obvious that Sussex private security wouldn't be able to carry guns at the Invictus games.  If MI6/Scotland Yard/Metro Police have evidence of a credible threat against the Sussexes in the Netherlands, then that information will be shared with the proper authorities, as it is for all U.K. citizens.

Skipping Phillip's memorial and attending the Invictus games proves that safety is not why the Sussexes only attend certain events.

They named their only daughter after the Queen, but neither bothered to be there for her at her husband's one year memorial service.  Despite being millionaires, with a home at Windsor under police protection, and with the obvious knowledge that the event itself would have police protection.

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by MomJeans

[WiseGirl]

From the Fail article "The High Court heard the duke did not feel safe in Britain without Scotland Yard officers with him. Harry wants to bring his children to visit from the US, but is 'unable to return to his home' because it is too dangerous, a legal representative previously said. But he still plans to jet more than 5,500 miles across the world to The Hague. "

So won't doing this hurt his chances in the British courts?

Also from the article as previously noted, "Couple will be followed by a Netflix crew for their Archewell Productions project with 'big surprise' promised"   

Ah, I get it now it's all about the money.  

I'm sitting at the edge of my seat, holding my breath, wondering what the "big surprise" is. /*sarcasm.

[MomJeans]

I don’t think attending the games will affect the high court case because the Judge is deciding whether Harry has a legal right to police protection under the law. It’s murky because no one has ever filed a case like this, but I don’t think it’s a right that can be waived via travel to other countries.

[EmCatlyn]

23 hours ago, WiseGirl said:

From the Fail article "The High Court heard the duke did not feel safe in Britain without Scotland Yard officers with him. Harry wants to bring his children to visit from the US, but is 'unable to return to his home' because it is too dangerous, a legal representative previously said. But he still plans to jet more than 5,500 miles across the world to The Hague. "

So won't doing this hurt his chances in the British courts?

Also from the article as previously noted, "Couple will be followed by a Netflix crew for their Archewell Productions project with 'big surprise' promised"   

Ah, I get it now it's all about the money.  

I'm sitting at the edge of my seat, holding my breath, wondering what the "big surprise" is. /*sarcasm.

I can see that part of Harry’s reluctance to return to the UK with Meghan and kids has to do with not having protection when the cameras are rolling and not being allowed to film in a lot of places they might want to film.  However, that really doesn’t explain his failure to attend the memorial.

I wonder if Harry just feels uncomfortable going back and having to deal with Charles and William.  He may also feel ambivalent about seeing the Queen.  Is she going to be “Granny” or “Her Majesty”?   He knows that what he’s doing is hurting the monarchy and making the Queen unhappy.

Whatever his motives, he is being selfish.  I don’t think Meghan wants to return, and I would guess she would object to taking the children to the UK, but Harry could go by himself, at least.  It is selfish (and somewhat cowardly) not to return for the memorial when everyone knows the queen is ill and weak.  Either he doesn’t care as much as he says or he is self-deluded about her health.  

[viii]

Everyone deals with death and grief differently. We have no idea how Harry has felt about Philips death and how he may be processing it. A memorial might have been too painful for him. It’s obvious to all that the queen is failing and maybe he’s struggling with that as well. When my aunt was in the hospital the day before she passed, her daughter refused to visit her because she didn’t want to remember her like that. Selfish in my opinion because a mother wanted to see her daughter, but my cousin couldn’t bring herself to do it and eleven years later, has no regrets about how she handled it. 

Or maybe Harry really is just a selfish dick. That’s probably more likely, tbh. I always seem to give the little twat too much benefit of the doubt. 

[prayawaythefundie]

So Harry and Meghan came to London to visit the queen: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10720195/amp/Prince-Harry-Meghan-Markle-make-secret-visit-Queen-Windsor.html

[tabitha2]

That was big of them. I am sure she wept tears of joy and gratitude they deigned to make a few hours for her. 
 
Hope The Corgis left a gift of welcome on their path. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by tabitha2

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, viii said:

Everyone deals with death and grief differently. We have no idea how Harry has felt about Philips death and how he may be processing it. A memorial might have been too painful for him. It’s obvious to all that the queen is failing and maybe he’s struggling with that as well. When my aunt was in the hospital the day before she passed, her daughter refused to visit her because she didn’t want to remember her like that. Selfish in my opinion because a mother wanted to see her daughter, but my cousin couldn’t bring herself to do it and eleven years later, has no regrets about how she handled it. 

Or maybe Harry really is just a selfish dick. That’s probably more likely, tbh. I always seem to give the little twat too much benefit of the doubt. 

Whether he is reluctant to go to the memorial and see his grandmother because it is too painful or because he doesn’t care enough, it would still be selfish.

We can’t know what is really going on, but there is no reason for his not going that isn’t selfish.  Even if he truly believed he would be in danger, sometimes you take risks.

1 hour ago, prayawaythefundie said:

So Harry and Meghan came to London to visit the queen: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10720195/amp/Prince-Harry-Meghan-Markle-make-secret-visit-Queen-Windsor.html

Well, at least he did the right thing.  The queen might have preferred it if he had left Meghan at home.

[viii]

If the queen can openly support Andrew, she can handle a luncheon with Meghan. 

Harry is kind of damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t with the queen and public perception right now. If he doesn’t see her, he’s a horrible grandson. If he does see her, how dare he after everything he’s done. The guy can’t win anymore. 

[prayawaythefundie]

1 hour ago, viii said:

Harry is kind of damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t with the queen and public perception right now. If he doesn’t see her, he’s a horrible grandson. If he does see her, how dare he after everything he’s done. The guy can’t win anymore. 

True but he didn‘t get into that situation by accident, his very own and very  deliberate actions brought him there.
 

However, This is his first healthy decision in months (maybe years) that I know of, so absolutely no snark from me for this. 

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, prayawaythefundie said:

True but he didn‘t get into that situation by accident, his very own and very  deliberate actions brought him there.
 

However, This is his first healthy decision in months (maybe years) that I know of, so absolutely no snark from me for this. 

I totally agree he did the right thing.  And I don’t know why anyone would say “how dare he?”  They might say, “It’s about time,” instead. 😉

[viii]

There’s a lot of people online who believe she should have turned him away and he had no right to visit her. I’m not saying their viewpoint is right but it’s certainly out there. 

And I agree that Harry’s own actions have led him to this place. It’ll be a hard place to come back from in the eyes of the UK public. 

[zee_four]

With all the banter about safety in the UK and now the Netherlands, being the driving force behind H and M's actions... why did they move to the US in the first place? The US has a much higher rate of violent crime than the UK, Canada, the Netherlands, pretty much every Western nation... Honestly leaving the UK then Canada (although neither were citizens of the latter, H could likely become a permanent resident easily as a fellow Commonwealth citizen- even if he wasn't BRF, and M as his wife, or a myriad of other solutions to stay if they're solely making decisions on the physical safety of their ommediate family) for the US shows that they were willing to move somewhere much less safe to have their children. If they only feel safe in the US because their wealth purchases them police protection and/or they security armed with firearms, that's pretty much the antithesis of the progressive international elite celebs they cosplay. 

Looking for logic in their actions outside of selfishness and self promotion is like doing the same for all the fundie leaders. 

But did you guys see? M saved a poor freezing infant by giving up her coat.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/royal-family/meghan-markle-invictus-games-coat-baby-b2059088.html

I'm sure the child would have died without that act of selflessness and humanity since the Netherlands is such a bastion of bitterly impoverished women and children. :slow clap: Sometimes I wonder if her PR people secretly despise her and keep coming up with the most ridiculous extra things and laugh as M trips herself to perform these courageous world changing acts. 

[prayawaythefundie]

The Sussexes fear different threats than average citizens of the UK, Canada, or the US due to being well-known,  outspoken  and controversial. I don‘t think one can declare their fears irrational by comparing general crime rates. 

[FluffySnowball]

On 4/15/2022 at 3:29 PM, viii said:

There’s a lot of people online who believe she should have turned him away and he had no right to visit her. I’m not saying their viewpoint is right but it’s certainly out there. 

And I agree that Harry’s own actions have led him to this place. It’ll be a hard place to come back from in the eyes of the UK public. 

Disgusting. The queen came to the memorial service with her disgusting molester of a son, but some people want her to not see Harry? I disagree with some of things he does, but he's no sexual abuser so I'd rather meet him over Andy any day of the week. 

[AmazonGrace]

On 3/31/2022 at 5:01 AM, just_ordinary said:

I don’t know. That’s exactly what they said about Elizabeth and Margaret and Wiliam and Harry. Just because you are publicly more open and at ease doesn’t mean you would cope better or do a better job. We also talk about children. A lot might change. Maybe there won’t be a monarchy after all when it’s his time. Maybe he steps back to pursue other things. Maybe Charlotte turns out to be a vain, silly and utterly unsuited person.
 

All I see are three children. Very different from one another. That are already victim to scrutiny about their character and suitability. Which is sad. 

I have no idea how much they talk about the future of the monarchy blah blah with the children but it would be hard to shield the children from the knowledge completely and give them an entirely normal childhood. So I think the firstborn or the expected heir to the kingdom might sometimes appear a more serious child because they grow up with way more pressure. to conform to a role. The younger children might resent the apparent inequality and act out in various ways that make them look more daring, wild and carefree. ("So screw you I'm not gonna be the monarch but at least I can par-TAYYYYY")

But  of course individual temperaments vary.

[just_ordinary]

5 hours ago, prayawaythefundie said:

The Sussexes fear different threats than average citizens of the UK, Canada, or the US due to being well-known,  outspoken  and controversial. I don‘t think one can declare their fears irrational by comparing general crime rates. 

I think their fears are irrational in so far as they seem to believe they will be chased through the streets like Diana, but yes, their public profile obviously comes with a different threat level. But that’s true for so many others. Almost everyone A Lister in Hollywood, well known activists, controversial figures in all areas…… they seem to think they are peeking out so much when instead, if the last three years showed us anything, they are getting less and less hype. Apart from the UK media that can still generate massive clicks by writing about them, their pull is going down drastically. They cling onto their old profile while in reality it’s less and less. And they have, as of now, missed the opportunity to increase or maintain it.

I think it’s good they went to see HMTQ. Bringing the children would have been nice as well, but that’s their decision. Judgmental bitchy me wonders though if they only came because her condition is so frail that she might not make it much longer. Extra shitty me, wonders if they just want to avoid a PR debacle as with Philip and make sure to get back into good graces before any inheritance gets handed out and Charles starts to implement changes.

[louisa05]

35 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

I have no idea how much they talk about the future of the monarchy blah blah with the children but it would be hard to shield the children from the knowledge completely and give them an entirely normal childhood. So I think the firstborn or the expected heir to the kingdom might sometimes appear a more serious child because they grow up with way more pressure. to conform to a role. The younger children might resent the apparent inequality and act out in various ways that make them look more daring, wild and carefree. ("So screw you I'm not gonna be the monarch but at least I can par-TAYYYYY")

But  of course individual temperaments vary.

Uh…Edward VIII and George VI destroy that theory. 

[AmazonGrace]

3 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Uh…Edward VIII and George VI destroy that theory. 

They were who I was thinking about re: Individual temperaments.

Of course it's not fool proof and not going to affect everyone similarly. The parents  may be able to help their chiidren or make it worse.

But the birth order influences children in very normal families too so to me it makes sense it would change things even more so  in families in which the firstborn gets cast into a certain rigid role.

 

[louisa05]

27 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

They were who I was thinking about re: Individual temperaments.

Of course it's not fool proof and not going to affect everyone similarly. The parents  may be able to help their chiidren or make it worse.

But the birth order influences children in very normal families too so to me it makes sense it would change things even more so  in families in which the firstborn gets cast into a certain rigid role.

 

According to a lot of sources, Diana constantly told Harry his role would be equal to William and he would be William’s support when he is King. I suspect that has a lot to do with what we’re seeing now. Reality isn’t what he was taught by mum. It’s become clear that Kate will be William’s  main support (rightly so)  and George’s birth pushed Harry further aside. 
 

In terms of personality, even as an infant and toddler, George has seemed to have a quieter personality, more inclined to take things in before he reacts. Charlotte and Louis have been more smiley and visibly outgoing even as babies and toddlers. At those ages they would have had no idea what their futures are. It’s been reported that W & K didn’t really talk to George about it all until he was around 6/7. 
 

On another note, biographers have written that the Queen was always a serious child and Margaret the opposite. It was assumed until the abdication that they would grow up to be minor royals. So those personalities were well in place by the time their status changed when they were 10 and 6. 
 

I do think it’s not uncommon for the “spares” to struggle with their place. Margaret very much did particularly because she and Elizabeth were very close and the dynamics of their relationship changed when Elizabeth became Queen.  The dynamic between Elizabeth and her mother changed as well. The Queen Mother and Margaret’s place and role changed greatly when George VI died. 
Andrew saw his status drop as his nephews came of age. He went from a massive royal wedding to an afterthought even before they grew up. Much like Harry, he seemed to have decided that his place in the family gave him license to do whatever he wanted —royal title but no real role or responsibility. Harry just hasn’t sunk to such legally and morally questionable activities. Yet. 

[viii]

Spares have always struggled. I think Harry behaviour is quite minor when you look back in history. At least he’s not trying to kill William to take the throne 😂

[AmazonGrace]

Monarchy is so messed up because it puts people in boxes regardless of what they are suited for. .What if George really wants to be a plumber or a volleyball pro? No can do. What if there is a plumber or a volleyball pro who would be the perfect next king or queen? Doesnt matter mate, you got the wrong parents.

IDK I really don't understand why people in this day and age stand for monarchy in any country. We get a lot of sucky people in charge in republics as well but at least the tax payers aren't required to pay for all their sucky kids to live in luxyry forevermore.

[SoSoNosy]

Willem-Alexander adores Queen Elizabeth.  I used to follow him and his wife on another board that has gone away, and I loved him and his family.  With the Dutch firm feelings of loyalty, I can see W-A thinking that H&M hurt his beloved (I think she is maybe his godmother??) Elizabeth and not having anything to do with them beyond what is required by protocol.

[tabitha2]

Exactly. Elizabeth is either related to or held in huge esteem by European Royalty. Plus WA’s mother the former Queen Beatrix is close personal friends with her. Harry let alone his wife would not get more than basic politeness and courtesy if he tried to get in with them now for  whatever reason.