(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 50: Anna Breaking the Opposite of News about the Whodunnit of the Century

[Cam]

On a certain level I’m sure some of his siblings feel badly for Josh in a detached sort of way. And yet I think they are relieved his trial is done taking center stage so they can move on.The younger ones would be less affected by him because of the age difference. Josh is currently out of sight and I think mostly out of mind for the older siblings because the attention is given to their own busy lives. 
 

It’s telling that none of the siblings commented on or reacted to Anna’s “the story isn’t over” post on social media. That tells me they are avoiding getting caught up in any way with more of Josh and Anna’s drama. They are protecting their reputations and good for them. 
 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Cam

[Dandruff]

49 minutes ago, Cam said:

On a certain level I’m sure some of his siblings feel badly for Josh in a detached sort of way. And yet I think they are relieved his trial is done taking center stage so they can move on.

Agree that some of his siblings probably feel badly for him - likely the ones who recognize the imperfections of their upbringing.  Also, I believe he did an unintentional favor to some of them by killing the show that they had little to no choice in participating in.  Their standard of living was already raised substantially with the $$$s and they may be thrilled to not be part of that ministry circus anymore.

[SassyPants]

5 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

Agree that some of his siblings probably feel badly for him - likely the ones who recognize the imperfections of their upbringing.  Also, I believe he did an unintentional favor to some of them by killing the show that they had little to no choice in participating in.  Their standard of living was already raised substantially with the $$$s and they may be thrilled to not be part of that ministry circus anymore.

Yep…here’s when JB and M shoulder the burden for their dysfunctional adult children: They trained out any ability to troubleshoot any situation thereby limiting these folks ability to make different/better/more individual decisions in any given situation. None of those kids wanted to stand up to JB and M and question their approach. When you factor in the withholding of education and abject isolation, it’s a wonder any of those people is beyond a bumbling idiot.

Another thing that always leaves me scratching my head, how did the Duggar parents think that the older kids would be able to safely parent all those little kids, when the older kids had the experiences and exposure of gnats? They trusted Jana to care for fragile Josie while they cavorted to MX, yet they did not trust Jana to take care of 20+ YO Jana all by herself. How does that logic work in anyone’s mind?  To me it just screams that JB is an unstable narcissist. He only cared about what was$ good for JB.

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, Cam said:

It’s telling that none of the siblings commented on or reacted to Anna’s “the story isn’t over” post on social media. That tells me they are avoiding getting caught up in any way with more of Josh and Anna’s drama. They are protecting their reputations and good for them. 

It has me wondering how much any of the siblings, whether they realize it or not, are just genuinely sick of it all.  And not just the one who were Joshley's victims, but the rest are sick of having to navigate around Josh and his issues.  Sick of the embarrassment, sick of their parents sticking up for him, devoting an inordinate amount of resources in dealing with his problems.  They just might be sick of Anna too because they know Josh is not innocent and really don't want to hear her protests to the contrary.  They are happy to see him gone and they are not sticking their necks out for him.  

[Alisamer]

I think the Duggarlings are getting to the age that the ones becoming adults now probably barely know Josh, really. He was already what, 17 or so when they started doing TV? They married him off at 20, and a few years later he went to Washington for a while. For the youngest girls he's just cousin Mack's dad, more than a sibling. And with the huge number of kids they had, there's no real reason for most of the howlers to have interacted with Josh much. He was married, gone, having his own kids. JD was the one actually in the house, if they wanted to talk to an older brother. 

The older kids who knew him well, were either victims of his molestation or knew about it. The younger ones saw him leave home when they were still very young. The youngest were born after he was long gone, even though he lived nearby more recently - still, what does Josie have in common with Josh other than that he's the dad of her cousins she hangs out with? I doubt the younger girls know him well.

I don't see why any of the kids would stick their necks out for him, unless possibly there's a reward in it from JimBob. The younger ones are too young to be brought into that mess anyway even if they did know him well, and the older ones have good reason to keep him at arms length times 3. They'll be cordial enough (and vague enough) to stay in JimBob's good graces, other than Jill, but they are unlikely to defend Josh in any way.

[Dandruff]

55 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

The older kids who knew him well, were either victims of his molestation or knew about it.

They also know that their parents decided to put the family on TV while trying to keep the dirty secret, and they presented themselves as a ministry...role models...examples of parenting that works.  If that isn't hypocrisy I don't know what is, and I wonder whether any of the older kids are either too dim or too in denial to realize it.

I think Josh's male siblings are under an additional burden to make sure Josh is seen as an aberration vs. just the one who got caught.  If nature and/or nurture produced Josh as the eldest son then I could see some people wondering whether his brothers may have issues.  Not fair to them, and I see no reason to believe that they do, but it would reflect terribly on the family/parenting if there was even a hint of similar dysfunction that went public.  Doubt among even the leghumpers would erode.  I'm sure it would be very bad.

The older of Josh's sisters may or may not feel somewhat vindicated by Josh's behavior going public, with him likely awaiting a long stint in prison.  Wouldn't it have been nice, though, if their own parents had done more to protect them vs. having to wait more than another decade for the government to ID him and deal with him as a dangerous problem?

I'd love to know what they're all really thinking about Josh and about their parents.

[Cam]

2 hours ago, Dandruff said:

 Also, I believe he did an unintentional favor to some of them by killing the show that they had little to no choice in participating in.  Their standard of living was already raised substantially with the $$$s and they may be thrilled to not be part of that ministry circus anymore.

Very good point.

 

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

They trusted Jana to care for fragile Josie while they cavorted to MX, yet they did not trust Jana to take care of 20+ YO Jana all by herself. How does that logic work in anyone’s mind?  To me it just screams that JB is an unstable narcissist. He only cared about what was$ good for JB.

It’s really weird when you think about it and makes no sense at all. I guess Jana alone is too big an enticement to men and might make them think or do bad things, whereas if she’s coddling her mother’s baby, she’s somehow protected from men’s dirty thoughts and actions.

 

 

2 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

It has me wondering how much any of the siblings, whether they realize it or not, are just genuinely sick of it all.  And not just the one who were Joshley's victims, but the rest are sick of having to navigate around Josh and his issues.  Sick of the embarrassment, sick of their parents sticking up for him, devoting an inordinate amount of resources in dealing with his problems.  They just might be sick of Anna too because they know Josh is not innocent and really don't want to hear her protests to the contrary.  They are happy to see him gone and they are not sticking their necks out for him.  

Oh, I think yes to all this. ^^^

 

 

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

For the youngest girls he's just cousin Mack's dad, more than a sibling……
….The younger ones are too young to be brought into that mess anyway even if they did know him well, and the older ones have good reason to keep him at arms length times 3. They'll be cordial enough (and vague enough) to stay in JimBob's good graces, other than Jill, but they are unlikely to defend Josh in any way.

Agreed.

 

 

25 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I think Josh's male siblings are under an additional burden to make sure Josh is seen as an aberration vs. just the one who got caught.  If nature and/or nurture produced Josh as the eldest son then I could see some people wondering whether his brothers may have issues.  Not fair to them, and I see no reason to believe that they do, but it would reflect terribly on the family/parenting if there was even a hint of similar dysfunction that went public.  Doubt among even the leghumpers would erode.  I'm sure it would be very bad.

Whoa. Very good point about his brothers, an angle I hadn’t thought of but totally agree. Josh brings shame to the male lineage, so to speak, and his brothers worry it could cast suspicion on them.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Cam

[Pecansforeveryone]

I think JB has lost some of the financial carrot to dangle in front of Jessa. Ben now has a steady, if modest salary as a pastor. Jessa is free to take influencing in whatever direction she chooses. Her cute kids are a big draw. JBs mug not so much. 

[noseybutt]

On 3/20/2022 at 3:21 AM, Smee said:

I have wondered this too, especially since he also had adult “rape porn” and the specifics of Danica Dillon’s allegations (spitting, choking etc). I think he gets off on violence and feeling powerful, and it would not surprise me in the slightest if it came out he was also physically abusive.

Same. 

This may sound weird and speculative to people outside the field, but thinking through various scenarios is super helpful in knowing what to probe for in interviews. The interview with Anna is the one that would be the most interesting. Because I am guessing she is a gold mine of information that she does not even realize she holds. She has lived a strange marriage with limited to no awareness of just how strange it is.

On 3/19/2022 at 9:16 PM, sndral said:

Here’s a link to the article https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2022/mar/19/duggar-seeks-30-day-delay-in-child-porn/?news-arkansas-nwa
WTF have they been doing the last 3-4 months? It’s not like finding Josh’s ‘friends,’ family, church, etc. to argue for mitigation is going to take any great detective work. 

To be fair, the pandemic has thrown a wrench into the legal system and, at least in my local area, we are still not caught up. I suspect it will be another year or so before we are fully back on track, and even that is questionable because of staff and professional shortages. As one example, we are still down about 30% for experts in my field because so many were older and retired out. There are simply not enough people with the right training in the pipeline and fixing the problem is hugely complex because it ties back to student loans, unpaid or low paying internships, etc.

Also, Josh is not going anywhere. I would have no qualms about shoving his file to the bottom of the triage stack. In the end, it will mean he serves a greater proportion of his time in the county jail versus a federal facility. Shrug.

[Alisamer]

18 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

Also, Josh is not going anywhere. I would have no qualms about shoving his file to the bottom of the triage stack. In the end, it will mean he serves a greater proportion of his time in the county jail versus a federal facility. Shrug.

According to a co-worker's son, who has done two stints in state prison, jail is far worse than prison. So I'm OK with that for Josh. I imagine Federal Prison might be even "better" than state prison in some cases - in that there's a set routine and things are fairly predictable. I believe jails have a much higher frequency of coming and going, and things (noisy things) going on at all hours, plus fewer facilities for long-term inmates since it's usually meant more as a holding area while awaiting trial/sentencing/whatever.

I don't much care what sort of cell he rots in, frankly, as long as he's incarcerated. And while I'm dying to hear what the final sentence is (and hoping it's on the high end), if he's struggling with not knowing how long he's going to be put away I can be patient. I have no compassion for him. (I have a tiny dwindling smidgen of compassion for Anna, but most of my compassion is for his children.)

[Guanabana]

Is anyone watching the confirmation hearing? The last case discussed involved downloading porn and the sentence. My husband doesn’t follow the Duggars but asked me if that was similar to what what’s his name did. 

[OrchidBlossom]

On 3/1/2022 at 1:29 PM, Funwithfundies said:

  Hide contents

https://www.nwahomepage.com/news/duggar-defense-responds-states-that-the-law-requires-a-new-trial-or-acquittal/

Josh’s defense team filed a 27-page document with the Western District of Arkansas Federal Court in Fayetteville, once again requesting an acquittal or a new trial (and once again trying to throw Caleb W. under the bus).

Any Parks and Rec fans here? I can't help but imagine Josh's lawyers are basically like Bobby Newport in the scene where he asks Leslie to just give him the election, like:

“Just acquit. It would be so cool of you if you just acquit. [...] Because…I want it. Come on give me it. Give me it. Give me it. Come on. Give me it. Just give me the new trial! I’m sorry. Please. Please.”

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 hours ago, Alisamer said:

According to a co-worker's son, who has done two stints in state prison, jail is far worse than prison. So I'm OK with that for Josh. I imagine Federal Prison might be even "better" than state prison in some cases - in that there's a set routine and things are fairly predictable. I believe jails have a much higher frequency of coming and going, and things (noisy things) going on at all hours, plus fewer facilities for long-term inmates since it's usually meant more as a holding area while awaiting trial/sentencing/whatever.

I don't much care what sort of cell he rots in, frankly, as long as he's incarcerated. And while I'm dying to hear what the final sentence is (and hoping it's on the high end), if he's struggling with not knowing how long he's going to be put away I can be patient. I have no compassion for him. (I have a tiny dwindling smidgen of compassion for Anna, but most of my compassion is for his children.)

Yes, I’ve been told jail can be very boring. While in prison, you can often mix with other inmates and socialize. There’s less socializing in jail. And no structured things in jail like time to go to the prison library and stuff like that. 

[Gottahavedembabies]

Any Parks and Rec fans here? I can't help but imagine Josh's lawyers are basically like Bobby Newport in the scene where he asks Leslie to just give him the election, like:
“Just acquit. It would be so cool of you if you just acquit. [...] Because…I want it. Come on give me it. Give me it. Give me it. Come on. Give me it. Just give me the new trial! I’m sorry. Please. Please.”

Amazing reference! Love it!

[nokidsmom]

23 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I don't much care what sort of cell he rots in, frankly, as long as he's incarcerated. And while I'm dying to hear what the final sentence is (and hoping it's on the high end), if he's struggling with not knowing how long he's going to be put away I can be patient. I have no compassion for him. (I have a tiny dwindling smidgen of compassion for Anna, but most of my compassion is for his children.)

Agreed.  The main thing is that Joshley is not out in society and given his crimes, he is a danger to his own children regardless of whether anything has happened to them or not.    His wife obviously believes he is innocent which means she's not going to protect the kids.  So the only thing really protecting his kids is the legal system.  

So if his attorneys want to push off his sentencing in some Hail Mary attempt to mitigate how much he might get, let them.   He's still in jail and away from the kids.   As other posters have pointed out attempts to mitigate sentences do not always work.  The best of both worlds would be for sentencing to be delayed and Joshley still gets hit with a very big book.  

[socalrules]

The delay doesn’t really change much for Josh. He still gets credit for whatever time he serves in the jail. So if he spends a year in jail before moving to prison for an 8 year sentence he has technically already served a year of his sentence. It’s why when people have to report to prison they go in at right before midnight because they get credit for a whole day of custody even though it was only two minutes of that day. It doesn’t really matter if he is sentenced in April or May, it’s unlikely the sentence would be any different anyway.

[Satan'sFortress]

On 3/22/2022 at 10:30 AM, noseybutt said:

The interview with Anna is the one that would be the most interesting. Because I am guessing she is a gold mine of information that she does not even realize she holds. She has lived a strange marriage with limited to no awareness of just how strange it is.

So much this.

[Bad Wolf]

If he gets 5 years, and has already served 1 in jail, then he will be out before we know it. Still time for M8. Those children will still be so young. Anna is an idiot to put him before her children. I must now go and pet my dog.

[Smash!]

3 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

If he gets 5 years, and has already served 1 in jail, then he will be out before we know it. Still time for M8. Those children will still be so young. Anna is an idiot to put him before her children. I must now go and pet my dog.

This made me literally gag. Off to Instagram looking at cute kittens.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

While I would be okay with Josh twisting for another month it is not fair to the people he has victimized, some of them waiting decades for some sort of justice. They shouldn’t have to wait another month.

 

[patsymae]

On 3/21/2022 at 11:38 AM, nokidsmom said:

Even some people in the Duggar bubble (family, friends, fellow churchgoers, etc) may finally realize that the public does see what Joshley did was really, really bad and not want to put their own reputation on the line.  They may privately show support, perhaps because they feel they have to, but when it comes to publicly saying anything....no way.

Michelle never showed up.  JB was there only a couple of days.   Not sure about Austin, but Derick attended every single day of the trial.  

Meech was probably much too buy running her household and homeschooling her teenage children.

[forgetmenow]

On 3/22/2022 at 7:28 PM, OrchidBlossom said:

Any Parks and Rec fans here? I can't help but imagine Josh's lawyers are basically like Bobby Newport in the scene where he asks Leslie to just give him the election, like:

“Just acquit. It would be so cool of you if you just acquit. [...] Because…I want it. Come on give me it. Give me it. Give me it. Come on. Give me it. Just give me the new trial! I’m sorry. Please. Please.”

But don't forget, Bobby Newport was against crime. 😉

Spoiler

 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

18 minutes ago, forgetmenow said:

But don't forget, Bobby Newport was against crime. 😉

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Maybe that’s why Josh wants a retrial; he couldn’t possibly have done it, when he typed the evidence into the thing up there it said he had network connectivity problems. 
 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Father Son Holy Goat

[Giraffe]

7 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

If he gets 5 years, and has already served 1 in jail, then he will be out before we know it. Still time for M8. Those children will still be so young. Anna is an idiot to put him before her children. I must now go and pet my dog.

This is exactly why I hope he gets at least 10. If he's out in 5 there's time for 3 more. Anna's not super fertile but I bet she'd do her damndest to have back to back pregnancies.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

This is exactly why I hope he gets at least 10. If he's out in 5 there's time for 3 more. Anna's not super fertile but I bet she'd do her damndest to have back to back pregnancies.

I’m still hoping for an execution but I’ll settle for 19 years