2020 Presidential Election 4: How Much Longer?

[Ozlsn]

2 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

If you still refuse to accept the premise of the debate that you agreed to and have to be reasoned with like a 5-year-old, you will be sent to a time out. In the interim, an actual 5-year-old will be allowed to answer the questions for you, just to drive home to the country what a nightmare we are all living through.

I would totally watch this.

3 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Wallace told the New York Times on Wednesday that the debate was a “terrible missed opportunity” and that he was “sad” with how it turned out. He said he had not expected Trump’s strategy would involve openly defying the rules against incessant interruptions.

“I never dreamt that it would go off the tracks the way it did,” he said.

Da fuq? Where the hell has he been since 2016, Mars?? 

He and his godawful boss are a large part of the creation of this problem, don't try and bullshit people now.

3 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

This is a base election — forget independents. It’s a base election,” said Bongino, a Trump ally. “So Trump is an apex predator. He’s the lion king. Trump went out there tonight and did what Trump does. He’s the shark in the ocean, and he acted like it. He lost no one from his base. No one.”

To quote my dad - who tuned in to watch a US Presidential debate for the first time ever - his base see bullying as a sign of a strong man. And they're wrong.

[EmmieJ]

I know Trump's base loved his behaviour last night.  But (thankfully), his base at most is perhaps 30% of the population (which is still a shocking number).  What Trump didn't do was win any undecided voters and no Biden voted had a change of heart and decided they'd vote for Trump instead.  

The majority of voters are extremely motivated to vote Trump out, and as many Republicans as possible.  And we'll never forget or forgive.  I predict that many Republicans will be crying in their beer the day after the election.

[fraurosena]

4 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Foreign observers expressed a sense of dismay and consternation toward the world’s leading democracy.

This bit in the article made me sigh heavily.

Stop deluding yourselves. You are not the world’s leading democracy. You have a system that allows the minority to rule.

In fact, earlier this year, the US was designated a ‘flawed democracy’.

Don’t take it from me though:

Why is American democracy in danger?

 

[Becky]

As far as I am concerned, the rest of the Presidential debates should be cancelled.  Trump should not be permitted another opportunity to put his bullying and insanity on display on prime time television, and Biden could use that time for something more productive. Seriously, anyone who is still "undecided" at this point has a screw loose and isn't deciding on issues anyway.  Never has the choice been more stark.  

The VP debate, now, that is a different animal.  I am laying in a supply of popcorn and cannot wait for Kamala to take the stage across from Pence.  

[GreyhoundFan]

From George Will: "For the sake of the country, cancel the remaining debates"

Spoiler

The putrescence of America’s public life was pitilessly displayed Tuesday when, for 98 minutes, whatever remains of the nation’s domestic confidence and international stature shriveled like a brittle autumn leaf. The national interest — actually, national security — demands that the other two scheduled mortifications, fraudulently advertised as presidential debates, should be canceled: When a nation makes itself pathetic, the response of enemy nations is not sympathy. And an additional 180 or so minutes of ignorant assertions mitigated only by the inarticulateness of the purveyors of them will swell the electorate’s already abundant crop of cynics, well defined as people prematurely disappointed about the future.

Most Donald Trump utterances resemble turbid creeks that are silty at their sources and trickle away into mud. He might finish his presidential term without ever speaking a complete sentence — subject, object, predicate. Oliver Wendell Holmes, who characterized Theodore Roosevelt’s Bull Moose movement as one of “strenuous vagueness,” survived Antietam but might have expired straining to decipher Tuesday’s cascade of falsehoods, rudeness and syntactical tangles.

Some viewers, their minds already closed concerning their presidential choice, watched the debate the way some people watch stock-car races: in hopeful expectation of carnage. They were not disappointed. Others watched to decide whether Democratic nominee Joe Biden has the acuity and grit to remain composed while standing next to someone whose indifference to facts dictates his preferred mode of expression — a tantrum. Among the relatively few voters still undecided about their choice, many probably watched hoping for reassurance about Biden, somewhat as voters did about Ronald Reagan in 1980.

Before Reagan’s 1980 debate with President Jimmy Carter, seven days before the election, the polls were much closer than the election would be. Millions of voters did not want to vote for Carter — the Iranian hostage crisis, a “misery index” of 22 percent (the sum of the inflation and unemployment rates in June 1980), etc. — but they would unless they were convinced that Reagan was not the reckless and nasty person portrayed by Carter’s shrill and nasty campaigning. When Carter attacked him concerning health care, Reagan responded with amiable bemusement and triggered a 44-state landslide with four reassuring words: “There you go again.”

Biden was, at most, minimally reassuring. Allowing himself to be sucked into the vortex of Trump’s cyclonic destruction of the event’s negotiated rules, Biden called Trump a clown, a fool and a liar. Truth was, however, an insufficient justification for Biden’s ignoring of this fact about Trump’s behavior: Following him down is an endless journey.

Presidential debates test next to nothing that is germane to the performance of presidential duties. Biden’s ungraceful scrum with someone unhinged and uninformed was an event with no analogue in a well-managed presidency.

Biden’s aging is a decisive consideration in his competition with Trump, whose reelection depends substantially on maintaining his support among the elderly. For the first time in Earth’s history, there are, globally, more people over 65 than under 5. In 2016, more than 1 million more U.S. votes were cast by people over 65 than by those 18 to 34. However, the elderly, the Whitest age cohort and the most receptive to Trump, are a crumbling Republican foundation: In 1993, Florida became the first state in which deaths outnumbered births among Whites; in 2018, that was the case in 26 states.

This is one reason for the GOP’s downward spiral. In the six elections between 1968 and 1988, of which they won five, Republicans won the popular vote by an average of 8.2 million and 9.58 percentage points, and averaged 417 electoral votes. In the election they lost, Gerald Ford in 1976 came closer to defeating Jimmy Carter than Mitt Romney came to defeating Barack Obama in 2012. But in the next six elections (1992-2012), Republicans lost the popular vote by an average of 4.3 million and averaged just 211 electoral votes.

Hillary Clinton’s 2.1 percent margin of victory in the popular vote while losing in 2016 was larger than John Kennedy’s popular-vote margin (0.17 percent) while winning in 1960 and larger than Carter’s (2.07 percent) while winning in 1976. Since 2016, Trump, with malice toward all who were not components of his popular-vote minority, has shown an indifference to arithmetic that his supporters probably consider evidence of his manliness, as they consider his rancorousness.

“Rancor,” wrote José Ortega y Gasset, “is an outpouring of a feeling of inferiority.” A plurality of Americans have concluded that Trump has much to feel inferior about, and Tuesday probably changed neither this nor the nation’s feeling of dread about its accelerating decay.

 

[libgirl2]

9 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

I would totally watch this.

Da fuq? Where the hell has he been since 2016, Mars?? 

He and his godawful boss are a large part of the creation of this problem, don't try and bullshit people now.

To quote my dad - who tuned in to watch a US Presidential debate for the first time ever - his base see bullying as a sign of a strong man. And they're wrong.

Your dad is right. And we wonder why some people in this country are so mean? They see it at the top that is okay to be a bully. 

[GreyhoundFan]

"Brad Parscale stepping away from job at Trump campaign"

Spoiler

Former Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale is stepping away from his job at the campaign, officials said Wednesday night.

Parscale was hospitalized for his own safety Sunday after threatening suicide while holding a handgun during a confrontation with his wife at his Florida home.

“We hope only for the best for Brad and his family,” campaign spokesman Tim Murtaugh said.

Parscale could not be reached for comment.

Politico, which first reported the move, attributed a Wednesday statement to Parscale and his wife in which she denied being abused by her husband. The couple said they eagerly waited for facts to come out. In a police report Sunday, Candice Parscale told officers her husband hit her.

Parscale was the campaign manager for almost three years until July, when he was demoted by the president.

According to the Fort Lauderdale police, Parscale had 10 guns in the house and had been drinking heavily when a SWAT team arrived — called by his wife. He was tackled and hospitalized under Florida law.

Parscale had come under scrutiny for his spending as campaign manager but had remained close with the Trump family.

 

[47of74]

I had a dream last night where I was out riding my bike near one of the local train tracks and a fuck face campaign train went by.  I gave it the same one fingered salute I give to so many of his signs these days. 

[thoughtful]

Quote

Former Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale is stepping away from his job at the campaign, officials said Wednesday night.

 

This is probably really mean of me, but the phrase "stepping away" got to me. Um, I think it's more like "got thrown away."

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by thoughtful
edited to make it clear what I was referring to

[fraurosena]

Dun-dun-dunnnnn

 

[EmmieJ]

7 hours ago, Becky said:

The VP debate, now, that is a different animal.  I am laying in a supply of popcorn and cannot wait for Kamala to take the stage across from Pence.  

Me too!  Pence has got to be shaking in his shoes at having to go toe to toe with not only a woman (!), but a woman of color (!), and an extremely educated, skillful former D.A.  She will wipe the floor with him, while Mother looks on in horror.

ETA:  I know one of the two remaining planned debates is a townhall version, with questions coming from the audience.  I can only imagine being in the audience, having my question posed to Biden, and then not being able to get his answer because Trump keeps loudly interrupting.  Not good, not good at all.  

The only way there could be some sort of actual debate would be both candidates placed in plexiglass booths.  Their mics are turned off at the end of their 2-minute period.  Trump would never, ever agree to that.

Edited October 1, 2020 by EmmieJ

[libgirl2]

4 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

"Brad Parscale stepping away from job at Trump campaign"

  Hide contents

Former Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale is stepping away from his job at the campaign, officials said Wednesday night.

Parscale was hospitalized for his own safety Sunday after threatening suicide while holding a handgun during a confrontation with his wife at his Florida home.

“We hope only for the best for Brad and his family,” campaign spokesman Tim Murtaugh said.

Parscale could not be reached for comment.

Politico, which first reported the move, attributed a Wednesday statement to Parscale and his wife in which she denied being abused by her husband. The couple said they eagerly waited for facts to come out. In a police report Sunday, Candice Parscale told officers her husband hit her.

Parscale was the campaign manager for almost three years until July, when he was demoted by the president.

According to the Fort Lauderdale police, Parscale had 10 guns in the house and had been drinking heavily when a SWAT team arrived — called by his wife. He was tackled and hospitalized under Florida law.

Parscale had come under scrutiny for his spending as campaign manager but had remained close with the Trump family.

 

I'm sure he is..... 

6 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

Me too!  Pence has got to be shaking in his shoes at having to go toe to toe with not only a woman (!), but a woman of color (!), and an extremely educated, skillful former D.A.  She will wipe the floor with him, while Mother looks on in horror.

And he has to be VERY careful of what he says.... one wrong word or phrase and he will look sexist/racist.  

[fraurosena]

25 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

I know one of the two remaining planned debates is a townhall version, with questions coming from the audience.  I can only imagine being in the audience, having my question posed to Biden, and then not being able to get his answer because Trump keeps loudly interrupting.  Not good, not good at all.  

 I would love it when Trump starts interrupting the public begins loudly chanting "Shut him up! Shut him up!"

[fraurosena]

You’ll never get a statement like this from Trump.

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by fraurosena

[GreyhoundFan]

Oh My Freaking God:

 

[GreyhoundFan]

So the campaign finance group is as dumb as Dear Leader:

 

Isn't Junior's squeeze part of the finance group?

[libgirl2]

32 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Oh My Freaking God:

 

WTF? He isn't even hiding it anymore! And he is limiting the number of refugees from war, violence and persecution. Does he not know the principles we were founded on? As a student of history, particularly WWII, this sounds very familiar.  WE much get rid of this asshole. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-administration-slashes-refugee-program-151423292.html

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by libgirl2

[47of74]

GOP fucksticks Wohl and Burkman could be going down

Quote

Conservative operatives Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman were charged on Thursday for allegedly orchestrating a series of robocalls aimed at suppressing the vote in the November presidential election, Michigan authorities said.

Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel filed a slew of charges against Burkman, 54, and Wohl, 22, including conspiracy to commit an election law violation and using a computer to commit the crime of election law. Prosecutors allege the two political operatives were using a robocall system aimed at scaring Detroit voters away from using mail-in voting ballots. The calls, which were made in August, went out to nearly 12,000 Detroit residents.

Both Wohl and Burkman face four felony counts and a maximum sentence of 24 years in prison.

My messsage...enjoy prison assholes.

[Cartmann99]

Gov. Greg Abbott limits counties to one absentee ballot drop-off location, bolstering GOP efforts to restrict voting

Quote

Gov. Greg Abbott threw the weight of his office Thursday behind Republican efforts to limit options for Texas voters who want to hand-deliver their completed absentee ballots for the November election — a rebuke to some large, Democratic counties that have set up multiple drop-off locations in what they call an effort to maximize voter convenience.

The Republican governor issued a proclamation directing counties to designate just one location for ballot drop-offs, and allowing political parties to install poll watchers to observe the process.

An unprecedented number of absentee ballots are expected to be cast this year as voters who qualify under Texas’ unusually strict vote-by-mail rules opt to avoid the health risks of voting in person. Republican officials have aggressively fought Democratic efforts to expand access to mail-in ballots during the pandemic.

President Donald Trump and many Republicans have sowed misinformation and confusion about the integrity of mail-in voting, which experts say is safe. With the U.S. Postal Service warning of potential delays, many Texans are eager to deliver their completed absentee ballots in person.

Harris County, the state’s most populous and a major Democratic stronghold, had designated a dozen locations where voters could deliver their own ballots — and already began collecting them this week. The locations are spread out across the county’s roughly 1,700 square miles, an area larger than the state of Rhode Island.

In Travis County, also a major Democratic stronghold, officials had designated four locations where voters could deliver their ballots.

“This is a deliberate attempt to manipulate the election,” Travis County Clerk Dana DeBeauvoir said Thursday at a press conference outside one of the county’s drop-off locations. Travis County officials say they plan to fight the order.

Lina Hidalgo, the Democratic Harris County judge, said “this isn’t security, it’s suppression.”

And Harris County Clerk Chris Hollins said “to force hundreds of thousands of seniors and voters with disabilities to use a single drop-off location in a county that stretches over nearly 2,000 square miles is prejudicial and dangerous.”

Democratic groups are weighing filing a lawsuit as soon as Friday challenging Abbott’s order, according to one party source who was not authorized to speak on the record.

The ballot drop-off locations are staffed, and voters must present an approved form of identification to deliver their ballots. They may not turn in ballots for other voters.

Voting rights advocates say Abbott’s move will make absentee balloting more difficult in a year when more Texans than ever are expected to vote by mail. Drop-off locations, advocates said, are particularly important given concerns about Postal Service delays, especially for disabled voters or those without access to reliable transportation.

“It raises a real concern that people are going to have just one more barrier to successfully submitting their ballot,” barriers that will disproportionately hurt voters of color and those with disabilities, said Mimi Marziani, president of the Texas Civil Rights Project, which advocates for voting rights among other issues. “And it opens the door to voter intimidation.”

Texas has extended the early voting period by six days and is allowing voters to drop off absentee ballots before Election Day, but has done little else to give voters more options for safely casting ballots during the coronavirus pandemic. Other states have allowed for universal absentee voting or even set up drop-off boxes where voters can deliver their ballots.

Abbott described his proclamation as an effort to “strengthen ballot security protocols throughout the state.” A spokesperson did not respond to questions about how allowing multiple drop-off locations might lead to fraud.

There is “not a shred of evidence,” Marziani said, that it would.

Abbott also announced that election clerks may collect absentee ballots only if they also permit poll watchers to observe the delivery of those ballots, “including the presentation of an acceptable form of identification.”

Nationally, the Republican Party is ramping up a multimillion-dollar effort to recruit poll watchers this year, the first presidential election in almost 40 years that the Republican National Committee has not been under a federal court order imposed to rein in the party’s “ballot security” efforts, which have a history of trying to intimidate voters of color.

In Texas, poll watchers are selected by candidates, political parties, or proponents or opponents of ballot measures — that is, people who have a stake in the outcome of the election. They must stand as silent sentinels and are not permitted to speak to voters or be inside voting booths.

But they, like voters themselves, are not required to wear masks to polling places this year, an exemption from the governor’s statewide mask order.

“These enhanced security protocols will ensure greater transparency and will help stop attempts at illegal voting,” Abbott said.

While there are documented cases of voter fraud in Texas, they are rare, and experts say absentee ballots are a secure way to vote this year.

The Texas Democratic Party slammed Abbott’s move.

“Republicans are on the verge of losing, so Governor Abbott is trying to adjust the rules last minute,” Democratic Party Chair Gilberto Hinojosa said in a statement. “We are creating a movement that will beat them at the ballot box on November 3, and there’s nothing these cheaters can do about it.”

Wesley Story, spokesperson for the liberal group Progress Texas, called the proclamation “a blatant attempt to suppress voters.”

Harris County has already begun collecting absentee ballots at a number of locations across the sprawling county. Abbott said that ballots collected before Oct. 2 remain valid, subject to earlier rules. In July, Abbott gave voters more time to deliver their absentee ballots in person, an option typically available only on Election Day.

Texas has maintained its unusually strict criteria for absentee ballots during the pandemic. Voters qualify only if they are 65 or older, are confined in jail but otherwise eligible, are outside of their county through the election period, or cite a disability or illness. The Texas Supreme Court has ruled that lack of immunity to the coronavirus does not itself constitute disability, but that voters must consider that alongside their own personal medical history to decide whether they are eligible. Election administrators do not have the power to vet a voter’s disability claims or demand documentation, but providing false information is a crime.

The question of absentee ballot delivery in Harris County is already being disputed in a legal challenge filed by Houston Republicans earlier this week. A group of candidates and officials including the Harris County GOP has asked the Texas Supreme Court to limit the locations where voters can drop off their ballots, as well as to shorten the early voting period Abbott has laid out. That case is pending before the court.

On Wednesday, the day before the governor’s proclamation, Texas Solicitor General Kyle Hawkins weighed in at the request of the court and backed Harris County’s efforts as lawful under the governor’s earlier orders.

Nothing in the law says that multiple drop-off locations cannot be used, Hawkins argued, and “accordingly, the Secretary of State has advised local officials that the Legislature has permitted ballots to be returned to any early-voting clerk office.”

Early voting is set to begin Oct. 13.

I loathe my governor a little more each day.

[JenniferJuniper]

He has the virus.

And I just said I didn't believe in karma.   

[Maggie Mae]

17 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

He has the virus.

And I just said I didn't believe in karma.   

He says he tested positive. This isn't great news. There are several options here: 

1. They decided to go ahead with a crazy plan to claim coronavirus, get better, miss the next debate, distract from Melania's recent "I f-ing hate Christmas" tapes & his inability to denounce white supremacy when directly asked on camera. 
2. He has the virus, gets better, tells everyone that it's no big deal. 
3. He has the virus, doesn't get better, and Pence takes over. Not great. 
4. He has the virus, misses the next debate, gets better, tells everyone that it is serious, mask up, he regains voters. 

None of these are anything but stressful. November can not get here fast enough. 

[thoughtful]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/politics/hope-hicks-positive-coronavirus/index.html

Quote

"We will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately. We will get through this TOGETHER"

I imagine Melania immediately thought "Well, in the same building . . . "

Dr. Conley:

Quote

"Rest assured I expect the President to continue carrying out his duties without disruption while recovering"

Watching Fox, tweeting and eating crap should be doable, but golf and shrieking rants may be off the schedule.

The nightmare continues.

 

[Smee]

His debate comments about Joe’s mask seem even more pathetic.

Given Biden’s age, I hope the social distancing during the debate was enough  and while I agree with the above about it not being “good” news, to be honest even if it IS an excuse to get out of more debates, that’s a good thing for everyone involved. The debates weren’t going to sway any undecided voters, so at least Biden can focus on campaigning. My fear is Trump’s plan is to use this as an excuse not to concede and peacefully transfer powers. “He has an unfair advantage, I was sick” sounds right up his alley.

[church_of_dog]

wonders if bone spurs are much of a comorbidity...

[Ozlsn]

2 hours ago, Cartmann99 said:

The Republican governor issued a proclamation directing counties to designate just one location for ballot drop-offs, and allowing political parties to install poll watchers to observe the process.

This is why an independent statutory body needs to be set up in each state to run elections - set boundaries, run polling places, set rules around them. Because this is basically rubbish. Polling places having watchers - no problems, but they should have a set number per party, and/or independent verifiers too.

And there should be a set distance around polling stations which is a clear zone - no political signs etc, no protesters, just a waiting area.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Ozlsn