Maxwell 31: InVESTing in Quality Bible Bindings

[Myfanwy]

5 hours ago, wallysmommy said:

Sleepaway camp is where they are at the camp 24 hours a day, sleeping in dorms usually, away from home.  Day camp is like day care for older kids where they stay home and only go during the day.  In my area it's sponsored by a church or the city.  They have activities and field trips.  It usually is run for about 7 weeks in the summer between school sessions.  It was a great place to send the kiddos while I worked so that they weren't home fighting and being bored.

Okay that's what I thought. Sleep away camp is like the ones on tele. Where the kids go to CAMP GUNNAHAVEFUN and sleep in dorms and eat in dining halls etc. Also, really, camps that last for the whole school holidays! WOW. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 hours ago, Myfanwy said:

Okay that's what I thought. Sleep away camp is like the ones on tele. Where the kids go to CAMP GUNNAHAVEFUN and sleep in dorms and eat in dining halls etc. Also, really, camps that last for the whole school holidays! WOW. 

I do know of some children in my area who go to sleep away camp for most of the summer. Their parents have the money for it though. Most people don’t have thousands of dollars for camp each summer though. It’s funny how you will see so many middle class kids going to sleep away camp on TV and movies when it’s likely that middle class parents couldn’t actually afford it. 

[Flossie]

I personally know of no one whose kids went to more than a week long school or church sponsored sleep away camp.  I know of some people who were able to send their kids to a week or two at Scout camp, but the camps we see on TV or in the movies are beyond my pay grade.

[nvmbr02]

Yeah, my oldest went to a week long girl scout camp a few times. It was a horse camp, so it was slightly more expensive than a typical girl scout camp, but her cookie sales helped pay for it and we were able to make it work. Now my son wants to go to space camp. That is some serious cash but I do think it would be great for him if we can manage it, but it will take some saving from both us and him. He willing to ask for money towards it from relatives for his birthday and Christmas so fingers crossed. 

But, yeah. It is hard enough for most people to come up with $400-$1,000 for a week long camp, plus having to purchase any camp specific items they might need (like when my daughter was going to the horse camp she didn't have 2 pairs of closed toed shoes, or rain gear that fit). It really adds up quickly. 

[SusanAtTheLastBattle]

I went to Jewish summer camp for sessions that ranged from 3 weeks to, one final summer, a special 7 week Hebrew immersion program. It’s expensive, but it’s also something that Jewish philanthropists focus on providing scholarships for:

https://www.jewishcamp.org/one-happy-camper/scholarships/

Camp is one of the major things that has been shown to make Jewish kids from liberal backgrounds (non-Orthodox/gender egalitarian/integrated with the wider world but often less educated about Judaism) feel positively about their background and like they have ownership over their Jewish identities.

I think summer camp is especially important for kids from minority groups or with unusual experiences (special needs, parents with an illness, etc) to form bonds with other kids like them. E.g. https://campkesem.org/

(Although selfishly, I do think the best part of camp for me was getting me away from middle school mean girls & constantly hovering parents to a place where I was praised for getting dirty and being strong) 

[PennySycamore]

There's this great girl's camp in the mountains of NC that I'd love to send my granddaughters to.  I think they might have two sessions so the sessions do run multiple weeks.  There's also a wonderful camp for Deaf kids and adults -Camp Mark 7- that's near where one of my daughters had a place in the Adirondacks.  That one could be good for my Deaf granddaughter.  Of course, the SC School for the Deaf and Blind also has summer camp sessions.  My nine year old legally blind granddaughter is at that camp this week.  Those are pretty affordable and may even be free.  The nice girl's camp in the NC mountains are not something we could do for the grandkids at this point.   

Even though this area is not known for having a large Jewish population,  there are several Jewish camps around Herndersonville/Flat Rock NC which I think is pretty cool.  

[Loveday]

10 hours ago, Eclipse said:

Does anyone else find the term "scripture memory" weird and the wrong phrasing. Shouldn't it be "memorizing scripture" or something like that? 

Maybe it is because I have multiple post-secondary degrees, but I have never seen the word "memory" used like that before.

It is weird. It should be 'scripture memorization.' I've never seen it called 'scripture memory' before, either.

[anachronistic]

There are so many different types of camps, you can find one for almost any interest. Kids with disabilities in the US may qualify for Extended School Year, which is summer school, so they don’t regress, but there’s usually much more water and fun stuff involved than in the regular school year and some schools do call it ‘camp’ to distinguish it from the regular year. Art camp, sports camp, cheer camp, computer camp, academic camp, music camp, wilderness camp, and every possible permutation of religious camp that you can dream of.....and yet the Maxwells will never even consider any of them.

It would not be hard to find a Christian camp that has their values except when it comes to the having-no-outside-friends rule. The parents will never get a wobbly clay pot and get to hear all how it was made. The kids will never get to discover that they like a food nobody else likes or get really messy and silly doing tie-dye on a rainy day. Telling stories is such an important part of any culture, but how can you have any good stories to tell when you are constantly around the same people? Most families are made up of different bits and pieces sewn and knit together with care for the years. The Maxwells are bits and pieces forced to be in close proximity to one another for so long that they have just sort of molded over and melded together. Not only is it harder to separate but it’s pretty ugly to look at.

Edited June 20, 2019 by anachronistic
Typo

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 minutes ago, anachronistic said:

There are so many different types of camps, you can find one for almost any interest. Kids with disabilities in the US may qualify for Extended School Year, which is summer school, so they don’t regress, but there’s usually much more water and fun stuff involved than in the regular school year and some schools do call it ‘camp’ to distinguish it from the regular year. Art camp, sports camp, cheer camp, computer camp, academic camp, music camp, wilderness camp, and every possible permutation of religious camp that you can dream of.....and yet the Maxwells will never even consider any of them.

It would not be hard to find a Christian camp that has their values except when it comes to the having-no-outside-friends rule. The parents will never get a wobbly clay pot and get to hear all how it was made. The kids will never get to discover that they like a food nobody else likes or get really messy and silly doing tie-dye on a rainy day. Telling stories is such an important part of any culture, but how can you have any good stories to tell when you are constantly around the same people? Most families are made up of different bits and pieces sewn and knit together with care for the years. The Maxwells are bits and pieces forced to be in close proximity to one another for so long that they have just sort of molded over and melded together. Not only is it harder to separate but it’s pretty ugly to look at.

Oh yes, there are tons of Christian camps. It’s sad that the Maxwell’s don’t even do VBS. Lots of fundies let their kids do VBS. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

19 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Oh yes, there are tons of Christian camps. It’s sad that the Maxwell’s don’t even do VBS. Lots of fundies let their kids do VBS. 

My fundy lite Mom made me do VBS.

And to say I was a difficult child at fundy lite sleep away camp would be an understatement.

Not a fan.

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, Loveday said:

It is weird. It should be 'scripture memorization.' I've never seen it called 'scripture memory' before, either.

In my day, it was “memory work,” pure & simple. Now excuse me, there are kids I have to run off my lawn. 

Also:

I’m rarely envious but I do NOT think Teri deserves such a nicely made quilt. 

Also also:

Do we have evidence that Nate&Mel are as stupid about child-raising as are his parents?  Mel’s family of origin is admittedly churchy but AFAIK not isolating at all. Abby’s future may be less dire than we are fearing. 

I hope so, anyway. 

[daisyjane1234]

2 hours ago, SusanAtTheLastBattle said:

I went to Jewish summer camp for sessions that ranged from 3 weeks to, one final summer, a special 7 week Hebrew immersion program. It’s expensive, but it’s also something that Jewish philanthropists focus on providing scholarships for:

https://www.jewishcamp.org/one-happy-camper/scholarships/

Camp is one of the major things that has been shown to make Jewish kids from liberal backgrounds (non-Orthodox/gender egalitarian/integrated with the wider world but often less educated about Judaism) feel positively about their background and like they have ownership over their Jewish identities.

I think summer camp is especially important for kids from minority groups or with unusual experiences (special needs, parents with an illness, etc) to form bonds with other kids like them. E.g. https://campkesem.org/

(Although selfishly, I do think the best part of camp for me was getting me away from middle school mean girls & constantly hovering parents to a place where I was praised for getting dirty and being strong) 

That is helpful information. Thanks for sharing.  Our kids attended day camp as school-aged kids, and sleepaway camp for up to three weeks a summer during their pre-teen/teen years - until they became leaders-in-training, when they would spend about half the summer at camp.  They LOVED it, and worked as counsellors throughout their college years. 

Our neighbours, and good friends, sent their children to summer camp for the entire summer, which always struck me as interesting.  Everyone we knew would send their kids to camp, but rarely for the entire summer.  But like you described, our friends are a well-educated, ultra-liberal, Jewish family - so it makes more sense now.  

[kpmom]

22 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

23 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

 

Do we have evidence that Nate&Mel are as stupid about child-raising as are his parents?  Mel’s family of origin is admittedly churchy but AFAIK not isolating at all. Abby’s future may be less dire than we are fearing. 

I hope so, anyway. 

Melanie does follow a MOTH schedule (Teri has mentioned it many times) so I do worry about Abby. A big part of MOTH is that older kids entertain and deal with younger ones while Mom teaches other kids. Abby’s saving graces might be her mom’s family, as you point out, and also she has a slightly smaller family than some fundies we talk about.  

[Melissa1977]

5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I do know of some children in my area who go to sleep away camp for most of the summer. Their parents have the money for it though. Most people don’t have thousands of dollars for camp each summer though. It’s funny how you will see so many middle class kids going to sleep away camp on TV and movies when it’s likely that middle class parents couldn’t actually afford it. 

TV has created an irreal shiny image of the US. I think that image is less and less bright because TV has less power and non-US people know not only about the bright side, but also about the dark side of your country. But yes, there is common to think that US is inhabited mostly by middle class people with a great way of life.

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

TV has created an irreal shiny image of the US. I think that image is less and less bright because TV has less power and non-US people know not only about the bright side, but also about the dark side of your country. But yes, there is common to think that US is inhabited mostly by middle class people with a great way of life.

It’s funny because I grew up lower middle class/working class and when I would watch movies like “The Parent Trap,” the idea of camp being all summer long was so foreign to me. I did not know one single person that had ever gone to sleep away camp all summer long when I was a kid. Movies had so much stuff in them that I just couldn’t relate to. I guess it helped me understand that movies were fake and not close to reality. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

My two disconnects main were why Alice was needed when Carol was home all day and kids were school aged.  

The other was why the hell were the Huxtable parents home and available so often and the house that clean without a housekeeper.

high profile  lawyer and OB/gyn?  No way were they home together so much.

Edited June 20, 2019 by HerNameIsBuffy

[nausicaa]

It is funny getting older and realizing how financially unrealistic so many depictions on TV are. How did Lorelei Gilmore afford an exclusively anthropologie wardrobe as a single, 32 year old mom? What the hell did Kevin from Home Alone's dad do to afford that sweet ass house? When I was little I also thought everyone else except my family put on a nice, coordinated head to toe ensemble every day to just sit around the house. I was side eyeing my mom and her sweatpants and really needed her to pull it together. 

On the subject of summer camp-- I know someone who went to sleep away WATER SKIING camp for multiple summers, staffed by hot Australian water skiiers on their winter holidays. Romances were had. The place looked just like The Parent Trap camp. Pretty sure I'm gonna die jealous about it. 

[PennySycamore]

I was just remembering how a dear friend of mine from frosh year at UGA was a lifeguard/water safety instructor at Camp Rappatack in Fryeburg, Maine.  It was a camp for Jewish girls whose parents were loaded.  Sue told me that Don Kirschner's daughters went there.   Sue may have been a counselor at a Jewish camp, but her dad was a Presbyterian pastor, she sang in the First Baptist choir and was an Episcopalian and sang in the Episcopal church choir.  She was very ecumenical!

[JermajestyDuggar]

55 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

My two disconnects main were why Alice was needed when Carol was home all day and kids were school aged.  

The other was why the hell were the Huxtable parents home and available so often and the house that clean without a housekeeper.

high profile  lawyer and OB/gyn?  No way were they home together so much.

Alice made sense when Mike was a working widower with three kids. But not after he married Carole, a SAHM. Sure they had 6 kids and a dog but Alice didn’t need to live there. She could have just come once or twice a week. But I suppose she was a part of the family by the time Mike remarried.

I just assumed everyone was rich on tv and Roseanne was “normal.” I didn’t realize until I was much older that Roseanne wasn’t middle class. When you grow up around a bunch of working class people, you assume that’s middle class! And everyone else with more money than you is rich. 

The Cosby’s, Seavers, Brady’s, Tanners all seemed rich to me. If you live in a Painted Lady in San Francisco, you have to be rich!

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

But I suppose she was a part of the family by the time Mike remarried.

For sure Alice made sense when it was just Mike and the boys and even during the transition period but not as a live in indefinitely.

and to the quote part above that’s totally how they wrote it, but she was the part of the family that had to go on their vacations and work.  She was the one washing dishes in the Grand Canyon!  

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, HerNameIsBuffy said:

For sure Alice made sense when it was just Mike and the boys and even during the transition period but not as a live in indefinitely.

and to the quote part above that’s totally how they wrote it, but she was the part of the family that had to go on their vacations and work.  She was the one washing dishes in the Grand Canyon!  

I am a SAHM and I want a life like Carol Brady! Or Betty Draper. How can anyone divorce Jon Hamm?

[catlady]

4 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Alice made sense when Mike was a working widower with three kids. But not after he married Carole, a SAHM. Sure they had 6 kids and a dog but Alice didn’t need to live there. She could have just come once or twice a week. But I suppose she was a part of the family by the time Mike remarried.

this does make sense, and i agree that Alice should have cut back to 2-3 days per week after the wedding; she might have been able to take up with Sam the Butcher if the Bradys didn't hog all of her time. 

but to take it further, so if Mike worked and employed Alice to look after the three boys, then how did Carol support herself and three kids before she got remarried?  i'm pretty sure i read somewhere that it was never clarified whether she was a widow or a divorcee (though since the girls never talked about their birth father, most people assume he died).  if she had no live-in help herself, she probably did not work outside the home; so where did her money come from?  a huge life insurance policy?  were her parents wealthy?  

[IReallyAmHopewell]

4 hours ago, Loveday said:

It is weird. It should be 'scripture memorization.' I've never seen it called 'scripture memory' before, either.

Probably couldn't spell "memorization," tried and autocorrect/spellcheck couldn't guess it!

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, catlady said:

this does make sense, and i agree that Alice should have cut back to 2-3 days per week after the wedding; she might have been able to take up with Sam the Butcher if the Bradys didn't hog all of her time. 

but to take it further, so if Mike worked and employed Alice to look after the three boys, then how did Carol support herself and three kids before she got remarried?  i'm pretty sure i read somewhere that it was never clarified whether she was a widow or a divorcee (though since the girls never talked about their birth father, most people assume he died).  if she had no live-in help herself, she probably did not work outside the home; so where did her money come from?  a huge life insurance policy?  were her parents wealthy?  

I always wondered about Carol’s first husband too. Maybe he sent them lots of child support out of guilt for running away with his secretary. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, catlady said:

this does make sense, and i agree that Alice should have cut back to 2-3 days per week after the wedding; she might have been able to take up with Sam the Butcher if the Bradys didn't hog all of her time. 

but to take it further, so if Mike worked and employed Alice to look after the three boys, then how did Carol support herself and three kids before she got remarried?  i'm pretty sure i read somewhere that it was never clarified whether she was a widow or a divorcee (though since the girls never talked about their birth father, most people assume he died).  if she had no live-in help herself, she probably did not work outside the home; so where did her money come from?  a huge life insurance policy?  were her parents wealthy?  

The wedding was at her parents home and I want to say she lived there with the girls?  At least Fluffy the cat was at home there (until Tiger.)

she was an unspoken divorcee so child support was likely a thing. 

Shirley Partridge however we know worked in a bank after the death of her husband.  I assumed the life insurance covered the house but not the bills, because she wasnt covering that mortgage on bank tellers salary.

also - 5 kids only one of the age and well behaved enough to help around the house...never messy.  You are not going to convince me Keith and Danny picked up after themselves.