"Teaching Our Daughters to Do Their Husbands Good NOW"

[raineymott]

*barf*

doorposts.com/blog/2011/10/04/teaching-our-daughters-to-do-their-husbands-good-now/

[emmyfair]

Translation: Make sure your daughters have no opinions, thoughts, wishes, hopes, dreams, opinions, feelings, likes, dislikes ... brains. Then she can be, what, a Stepford wife? Whatever.

I'm barfing with you!

[liltwinstar]

That's a really squicky article. I, too, am really bothered by the fact that they say that a girl/woman should obey her husband exactly the same way she obeys her parents. How can a man trust his wife when all she does is obey his every whim? When I read that chapter in Proverbs, I see a woman who has a great deal of autonomy in her life and her marriage - she sees a field and buys it; her husband trusts/knows that she's making a good financial decision! He doesn't micromanage her decisions.

The picture of the little girl in the article breaks my heart. She's what, 3 or 4? And already her whole life is about cooking, cleaning, and being endlessly obedient. Yes, cooking and cleaning are important life skills. But that's not all there is to a woman's life! Being a wife, being a mother - both can be awesome. But, again, there is so much for women to experience and do, if they choose to and want to. Why pidgeonhole a small child when you don't know what she will become? Why fill her head with thoughts of marriage and babies when she's way to little to understand what all of that means? It's so limiting and so sad.

[GeoBQn]

By saving and investing a portion of any money she earns into materials for her future home. We our daughters, starting when they were still very young, set aside a portion of their earnings (mostly earned by working in our home business) in a fund we refer to as “dowry.†This money has been earmarked for purchases related to their future homes. They have purchased items at garage sales and special store sales. They have invested in books and sewing machines, dishes and cookware, cameras, and even pieces of furniture. This helps to ease some of the financial burden when newlyweds are setting up their new household.

Holy shit. I can't even . . .

[thoughtful]

Holy shit. I can't even . . .

Really.

Now, the idea of a child being lovingly encouraged to buy something they might still have many years later, is not harmful. It can be practical, endearing, and a great reason to compliment a child for their responsibility and good taste.

I know men and women who, like me, had an interest in antiques when very young, and whose tastes have grown but remained consistent.

Like an early bent for athletics or music or writing, an early sign of being interested in having and keeping a nice home can be a gift. But, I'd only do it if:

- it applies to boys as well as girls

- it is valued by parents without the "it's only important because you are preparing to be a wife and mommy (or even husband and daddy)" trap

- it applies to the aesthetics of items, as well as their practical value

- kids aren't forced or expected to buy items for their future homes

- the idea that one MUST be a homebody, rather than someone who prefers to travel light, is not the only option that is valued

[dormouse]

I agree with everyone so far. Knowing how to cook and clean is important, and should be learned sooner rather than later. Not as a "career" for girls, but as a valuable life skill for both genders. Because eventually all kids will grow up and live on their own, and takeout and cleaning ladies are expensive! I'm glad my mother showed me how to cook on a shoestring budget when I was a teen. However, she was not big on cleaning, she only did the bare minimums and has never taught me. I wish I had the natural gift of cleaning like my MIL and some of my friends, but unfortunately I don't, and fibro doesn't help. I hired a cleaning lady as soon as my budget allowed it.

On teaching daughters to obey their husband... I find it heartbreaking, because it's my father who saved me from nearly a decade of abuse with my ex, and he would have helped me sooner had I talked earlier (I didn't talk for many reasons: thought it wasn't abuse, that I deserved it, didn't want to be a burden to my family, was affraid I would end up homeless, etc.). Imagine if I had a fundie dad: he would have told me to stay because my duty as a woman was to be submissive, and that the abuse was my fault because I wasn't submissive enough.

[Confused_by_religion]

These parents just seem to be scared that their daughters won't be able to make it on their own. Their being submissive seems like a guarantee that the girls will find somebody to care for and protect them...but it doesn't work like that in the real world, people.

Even in the Golden Victorian Age when Life was Genteel and Ladies wore proper Dresses *barf, girls brought up to be good wives could find themselves alone and penniless as old maids or widows. They needed more skills than just being able to be submissive and cook pies, and they need more skills than that today. *argh

[raineymott]

These parents just seem to be scared that their daughters won't be able to make it on their own. Their being submissive seems like a guarantee that the girls will find somebody to care for and protect them...but it doesn't work like that in the real world, people.

Even in the Golden Victorian Age when Life was Genteel and Ladies wore proper Dresses *barf, girls brought up to be good wives could find themselves alone and penniless as old maids or widows. They needed more skills than just being able to be submissive and cook pies, and they need more skills than that today. *argh

YES. Not to mention how wrong it is to raise someone to be dependent on someone else their entire lives. So you train your daughters to "obey" their father (and later husband)...and the husband turns out to be abusive. Then what? Oh wait, divorce is taboo, no matter what he's doing. But if she did actually decide to get a divorce? She's gonna have to learn in a hurry how to take care of herself, and I haven't found the "real" world to be very forgiving of the ignorant or naive!!

It makes me SO MAD to see stuff like this. I usually avoid blogs that talk about this sort of stuff, but a fundie-lite friend of mine on facebook posted it. I HAVE BEEN THERE, DONE THAT, AND GOT THE T-SHIRT. It's NOT roses and rainbows to obey your father up in your 20's. It's HUMILIATING. And then when you can't take it and leave, you get shit from the people who tell you "he was only trying to do what was best!" Most of the women who promote this stuff have not had to obey their father 100%, and CHOSE to be subject to their husbands. And anyone who HAS grown up like that and still believes it's the right thing to do is still brainwashed.

/rant

[MerryHappy]

I think it is such a gross invasion of these young girls privacy to ask them to wear purity rings. They are, for all intents and purposes, displaying the condition of their child's hymen to the world.

I'd kinda like to ask the blog author to allow her girls to give her a ring to wear when they think it is okay for their mother to have sex. See how well concern over sexual activity go over if the shoe is on the other foot. Just so she could see how humiliating it is.

Oh, that's right. Silly me. Those girls have no rights. They are property...hymens...to be bought and sold like cattle.

Disgusting.

[Mompom]

Really.

Now, the idea of a child being lovingly encouraged to buy something they might still have many years later, is not harmful. It can be practical, endearing, and a great reason to compliment a child for their responsibility and good taste.

I know men and women who, like me, had an interest in antiques when very young, and whose tastes have grown but remained consistent.

Like an early bent for athletics or music or writing, an early sign of being interested in having and keeping a nice home can be a gift. But, I'd only do it if:

- it applies to boys as well as girls

- it is valued by parents without the "it's only important because you are preparing to be a wife and mommy (or even husband and daddy)" trap

- it applies to the aesthetics of items, as well as their practical value

- kids aren't forced or expected to buy items for their future homes

- the idea that one MUST be a homebody, rather than someone who prefers to travel light, is not the only option that is valued

And also if they don't call it a flipping DOWRY. I had to reread that section. A dowry in 2011? Blech.

[bananacat]

Sometimes I wonder why they don't just find some fundie doctor to give clandestine lobotomies to their daughters.

[FuManchu]

It gives the impression that they're buying these items already, not just saving for them. Just what a new husband wants - a 20-year-old toaster that HAS to go in the kitchen because your wife picked it up for $3 at a garage sale when she was 7.

[dormouse]

And also if they don't call it a flipping DOWRY. I had to reread that section. A dowry in 2011? Blech.

This. It is perfectly normal for parents to keep their extra stuff for when kids will move to their first apartment. My mother did it for me, MIL did it for my husband, and my friends who have teenage kids are starting to set aside their old dishes and linens as well. But the word dowry is so "women are property". Blech indeed.

[Kitty]

Setting aside a few items and some money is a DOWRY? Do they think parents don't support their newlywed daughters at all?

Also, DOWRY? What the fuck? It's TWENTY FREAKING ELEVEN people! We don't have dowries anymore!

Besides, they have no clue what a dowry actually is. The items would actually go into a hope chest. And to have the girls buy those items, with the express purpose for using them for marriage, when they're really young? Holy shit. And fundies wonder why their wives are depressed.

[CanadianHippie]

Two sinners cannot live together in harmony outside of the grace of God.

Really? Really?! I am seriously going to disagree with this, and I'm sure everyone here will too. I know plenty of happily married "sinners" (some who are teh Catholics, and some who are even stricken by teh gayz!) who have never even come close to inharmonious.

[trebello]

OK, not to make light of the subject at hand (I find it appalling), but...

Am I the only person with such a Beavis and Butthead mentality that "Teaching Our Daughters to Do Their Husbands Good NOW" sounds really dirty?

[CanadianHippie]

OK, not to make light of the subject at hand (I find it appalling), but...

Am I the only person with such a Beavis and Butthead mentality that "Teaching Our Daughters to Do Their Husbands Good NOW" sounds really dirty?

Naw, my first though was sexy time lessons too.

[emmyfair]

OK, not to make light of the subject at hand (I find it appalling), but...

Am I the only person with such a Beavis and Butthead mentality that "Teaching Our Daughters to Do Their Husbands Good NOW" sounds really dirty?

Yeah, I'll admit it does ... I had to read the post title twice to make sure I really understood what the thread was about... :oops:

[thoughtful]

OK, not to make light of the subject at hand (I find it appalling), but...

Am I the only person with such a Beavis and Butthead mentality that "Teaching Our Daughters to Do Their Husbands Good NOW" sounds really dirty?

Ordinarily, I'd think, "no, that would be 'to do their husbands well,'" but, considering the SOTDRT, that would be how they'd say it.

"Do your husband good, honey - do him real good."

[raineymott]

*sigh* I hate it when people are so dense they can't even realize the impact of their own words. Read the comments...if Pam doesn't *mean* "obey", she shouldn't SAY "obey". If the Pearls don't *mean* "discipline your child until s/he submits" (including the ones that die), they shouldn't SAY that.

[fundiefan]

The whole post turns my stomach a bit. I keep typing out rambling thoughts opposing her but it gets me nowhere.

I am just grateful, yet again, that I was raised as I was and not the way these people raise their children.

[raineymott]

The whole post turns my stomach a bit. I keep typing out rambling thoughts opposing her but it gets me nowhere.

I am just grateful, yet again, that I was raised as I was and not the way these people raise their children.

Yes...be very glad!! Lol I gave up saying anything...I didn't want a debate in the first place (I hate debates), and they are obviously entrenched in the koolaid. Hopefully their readers see the comments and think a little bit more.

[FireIsCatching89]

*shudder*

A flippin' DOWRY? Now my poor dad has to provide CATTLE and GOLD JEWELRY so I can get married? All he said he'd pay for is two first class round-trip tickets to wherever I wanted if I elope so he can avoid an actual ceremony and a schlocky reception (and I'm pretty sure he's not kidding, either). Guess I'm fucked.

Oh...wait...

That said, I had a couple friends growing up who had hope chests, which my mother and father also found, ah, archaic. As a senior in college, due to get her first appartment, all my hope chest would consist of at this point would be a beat-up mini-fridge, a fuschia yoga mat, a Rosie the Riveter poster, some Twin XL sheets, and a set of wine glasses that my brother got me for my 21st birthday. Somehow I don't think that would go over too well with Miss Dowry over there. I am, however, excited to outfit my first appartment (I spend a lot of time on Target.com and Bedbathbeyond.com), but that's because I'm excited to be on my own, not to "obey" some patricharse.

When I was little I spent my money on candy bars and model ponies, not throw pillows and toaster ovens. How sad.

[raineymott]

When I was little I spent my money on candy bars and model ponies, not throw pillows and toaster ovens. How sad.

When I was young, I wasn't *allowed* to spend my money so that someday when I got married, I'd be able to give my husband all the money I'd saved over the years.

[annalena]

The all-time question pops in my head:

Where are the posts about what HE is supposed to do, learn, have?!

About the dowry- funny enough, I had a friend who started buying things like silverware, bed linens, pots and pans for her future household when she was about 14. She and her parents were not fundy at all, she just was a very domestic type of person.

Also, she wanted that stuff for her own household basically, were she moved to to live by herself. Not to sell herself to a guy.