John Shrader 16: Flying Away in That No-Engine Plane

[nastyhobbitses]

On 12/16/2018 at 4:00 AM, thoughtful said:

I'm not a Star Wars expert, but wasn't that outfit something Leia was forced to wear as a captive of Jabba? As others have pointed out, her garb of choice covered her whole body. Even when it comes to fiction, John is ready to blame the woman.

Somehow, I can't help suspecting that John has a copy of that picture hidden between his box spring and mattress.

 

Yup, that's called the Slave Leia outfit. Because she was enslaved. Her clothes that she chose were pretty practical and simple. 

[DarkAnts]

50 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

And no-one has sent him new printing equipment recently although he keeps complaining that his machines need new parts.  Johnny claims he never asks for anything he just prays about needs.  But his  hints are about as subtle as dropping anvils.

I don’t think anyone has sent him care packages of sunflower seeds and beef jerky in a long time.

[apandaaries]

@Aine That you for that wall of text.  Anytime you'd like to add more, I'd love to read it. 

I also feel for Jace while understanding that his condition likely makes it very difficult to be around him for any length of time (although I still hold some anger towards his parents -- I can't imagine them doing much more than pray over him and/or send him to Jesus Camp for a spell). It's terrible that we neglect mental health to the extent that we do here in the States. Seems like self-medication is the most popular form of medication for far too many people. When they don't have all the levels of support required (including financial support), the DIY approach seems to be the most popular alternative. Heartbreaking all around. 

[Palimpsest]

5 hours ago, formergothardite said:

It was around October 19. I just copied it from what we quoted here.

Quote

just lost some church members over a stand for Truth. He has never wavered. 

Also around that time John wrote about how in the past year he had almost no support for his mission in America except for close family. 

Found it.  Many thanks. I was very busy in mid and late October and only skimmed it then.

https://www.facebook.com/john.shrader.125/posts/10212338825455965

Good grief.  He should just go home and help Dad out.

Quote

This is also very important to me as the next pastor will also be my pastor as well. I've seen too many churches change, and my dear father has given his entire life and ministry to this, one of the Lord's churches, and it is very critical his legacy of steadfastness in doctrine and practice not be marred by someone who shifts with the changing winds that are so popular today. I have personally had to leave a church that changed its stated and professed position on repentance to preaching from the pulpit that repentance is not necessary for salvation, so I know the heartbreak of doctrinal change in leadership. God forbid that would happen at my own sending church where I once pastored alongside my father for five years, and is our sending authority.

I think the bolded completely misrepresents Valley Baptist. The blow up was over John's focus on all the "works" he was doing, IIRC.

And he signs off as "Historic, Unapologetic, Unaffiliated, Separated Baptist Missionary." 

Good grief.

[apandaaries]

Such a huge difference between a wall o' text like Johnny's and something informative and amazing like Aine's.  

As I was rereading it, this part stood out to me: "Dad is a truly humble man who is still growing and learning, and not too proud to admit it! (He didn't want it to sound like I was "bragging" when I read him this...I reminded him of Prov. 27:2, and that everything I've shared is truth.) He can do and fix almost anything, and is growing in grace even now! He's recently lost around 50 pounds, and just lost some church members over a stand for Truth. He has never wavered. The wife of one of the men that just left was the organist. They also don't have a faithful, reliable pianist. Heartbreaking, as they've stood without compromise in music for 40 years! I so love this man. He's impacted so many over the fifty+ years since the Lord saved him. His passion from the beginning has been world-wide missions through Faith Promise giving."

Stunning how John can so easily combine his father's weight loss with his loss of church members! And that apparently, the lost organist was a woman whose husband disagreed with the Great Shrader Doctrines. Shame she wasn't faithful and reliable enough for the Shrader Baptists, but another impressive move to quickly throw her under the bus. 

Overall, his total disdain for women was both obvious and sickening. That's just worth mentioning.

But the bit at the end about worldwide missions and Faith Promise giving. How into prosperity gospel are the Shraders? Does it seem like Pa Shrader's focus on "world-wide missions" caused strife in the church? Could that church even afford to support anyone besides John, Esther, and their eleventy kids? 

I know I'd feel salty if I tithed my hard-earned money to someone who then gave it to someone as lazy as Johnny Boy.

[formergothardite]

30 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

  He should just go home and help Dad out.

I'm not sure what sort of help he would actually be! He did start off as his dad's assistant pastor.I can see John expecting his dad to hand him the church, though when Daddy Shrader retires. I think at that point John would be happy to come home because in his mind he will be ruling an already established church. 

[Palimpsest]

3 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I'm not sure what sort of help he would actually be! He did start off as his dad's assistant pastor.

I've always wondered whether it was a violent clash of Shrader egos that made John feel called to pastor elsewhere.  Or perhaps Tri-Baptist church in Katy couldn't support them both in the style to which John wanted to become accustomed.

Didn't he have yet another failed assistant pastor job before he was "called" to the Dalles?

[anjulibai]

I thought he was head pastor at some super small church for a bit. 

[formergothardite]

7 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Didn't he have yet another failed assistant pastor job before he was "called" to the Dalles?

He might have. I do know he didn't seem to last too long as the head pastor. He had to work full time because it was a small church and he seemed to have spent much of his time complaining on FB. 

[Palimpsest]

Well, thanks to Fundie Wiki I tracked it down. (They really do a good job although they still have Sophia's birthplace wrong and put Johnny in Africa too early.)

According to John, he wasn't "middle-aged" enough to take over the first church.  Or they gave him the boot.

Quote

The Lord did not open the door, but instead opened a door to serve as my father’s Associate Pastor for five years.  I then followed the Lord’s leading to the Northwest, where I served for a year and a half under Pastor Albert Fare at New Testament Baptist Church in Brewster, WA.  The members of the church really wanted someone more middle-aged, so the Lord moved us to serve for a time under a church planter in The Dalles, OR.  After moving there and joining, the church planter left, so we accepted the call of the new little church to become their pastor.  Serving for almost four years, the Lord has taught us many valuable lessons through both triumphs and trials.  We had surrendered to serve the Lord the rest of our days there, even though it was not our desire.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140829022439/http://shrader.teamzambia.com:80/about-us/

Like hell.  His second store front church in the Dalles was on its last legs when he decided to make tracks for Deputation.

[formergothardite]

He made it longer as a lead pastor than I remembered! 

The one thing about John is that he always has to be the most super special chosen one.  He claims that he received death threats in blood when he was just a baby? And then he was too holy for the IFB crowd in college and now he is too holy and pure for even IFB churches. No one follows God as closely as John does. He is the best and people who cut him out of their lives are just worldly traitors. 

[Palimpsest]

6 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

The one thing about John is that he always has to be the most super special chosen one.  

Yep.  But you forgot that he was also a premature baby who miraculously survived.  He brings that one up frequently.  Too frequently.

[formergothardite]

Miraculous preemie who got death threats written in blood! I don't think he ever explained why exactly he was getting death threats and what the police did. I suspect the real story is considerable less blood and death. 

[Palimpsest]

8 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

And then he was too holy for the IFB crowd in college

He was never in college.  He did undergraduate thingies through Tri-Baptist.  And then he did his "Masters" at a matchbook cover single church "seminary" that no longer exists.

I've always loved the Baptist Board's take on Johnny's alma mater.

https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/emmanuel-baptist-theological-seminary.29398/

[formergothardite]

That was a fun read! Am I understanding it correctly that John's "school" was not only KJVO, but also claimed that the sun rotated around the earth? 

[apandaaries]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

That was a fun read! Am I understanding it correctly that John's "school" was not only KJVO, but also claimed that the sun rotated around the earth? 

I believe that’s what was stated! That OP was just as obstinant and arrogant as Johnny himself. Must be a super educational and enlightening place, so many guys like that arguing all day but refusing to ever listen, learn, or concede a point. 

[Ozlsn]

7 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I'm not sure what sort of help he would actually be! He did start off as his dad's assistant pastor.I can see John expecting his dad to hand him the church, though when Daddy Shrader retires. I think at that point John would be happy to come home because in his mind he will be ruling an already established church. 

For what is likely to be a short time until everyone gets sick of him and quietly - or not-so-quietly - leaves. I give it 5 years max.

[Aine]

If people are already leaving Daddy Shrader's church that isn't even a large congregation to my understanding, I'd imagine many more would leave  within 12 months of John taking over. Rick really doesn't seem as dogmatic and "my way or the highway" compared to John. Rick is dogmatic and inflexible but I don't get the impression he challenges and humiliates church members about any disagreements.

I wonder if Rick and Jodi thought the deputation would teach John some humility and help him realize that sometimes you need to be more flexible on the more 'minor' points of the Scripture and focus on what they see as they whole (I guess, repenting and true belief in salvation?). John doesn't get any of that or that if all people practiced religion the way he did, the economies that he relies on to fund him would crash and the inventions he loves wouldn't exist.

It's easy to be an Unaffiliated Historical Baptist Charlatan when you already reap the benefits of others NOT being that.

[Aine]

And thanks y'all for being kind about my wall of text. That performance reminded me of this that me friend sent me the other day. She sent it lovingly but I do have severe ADHD (shout out to my Mum for giving birth to me and everyone finding out I was addicted to opioids and needed to be given methadone!- not that ADHD needs any reason to exist) and my stories do sometimes go like this and I do take most weekends off my meds to give my body a chance to eat. I'm always embarrassed by my meandering ramblings even though it is only sometimes rational to feel that way.

 

[Petronella]

9 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I've always loved the Baptist Board's take on Johnny's alma mater.

https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/emmanuel-baptist-theological-seminary.29398/

Oh my, oh my! That whole discussion is worth a read. This was my favorite insight:

”Perhaps this can be the litmus test: a school and/or teacher is too narrow when his or her view on anything general or specific in theology is the "biblical" view and every other view is the "unbiblical" view. I've found that many church-schools use the word "biblical" as an adjective in front of everything and all that word means is that it's the church-school's position on something.”

[Palimpsest]

11 hours ago, formergothardite said:

That was a fun read! Am I understanding it correctly that John's "school" was not only KJVO, but also claimed that the sun rotated around the earth? 

 "Can you refute a geocentricity from Scripture? You must since he supplied a clear presentation from Scripture!"  

And apparently the "clear presentation" was:  the Bible never mentions the earth revolves around the sun.

7 hours ago, Aine said:

I wonder if Rick and Jodi thought the deputation would teach John some humility and help him realize that sometimes you need to be more flexible on the more 'minor' points of the Scripture and focus on what they see as they whole (I guess, repenting and true belief in salvation?). John doesn't get any of that or that if all people practiced religion the way he did, the economies that he relies on to fund him would crash and the inventions he loves wouldn't exist.

It's easy to be an Unaffiliated Historical Baptist Charlatan when you already reap the benefits of others NOT being that.

As far as I can see the IFB deputation stage is simply a fundraising gig.  It didn't teach John humility.  It honed his grifting skills though.  I still remember his boasting about having grabbed a teenage girl's entire babysitting savings and inspiring some poor sucker to get a second job in order to buy John printing paper.

4 hours ago, Petronella said:

Oh my, oh my! That whole discussion is worth a read. This was my favorite insight:

”Perhaps this can be the litmus test: a school and/or teacher is too narrow when his or her view on anything general or specific in theology is the "biblical" view and every other view is the "unbiblical" view. I've found that many church-schools use the word "biblical" as an adjective in front of everything and all that word means is that it's the church-school's position on something.”

I found that Baptist Board thread ages ago (it's not as though Emmanuel Baptist Theological Seminary ever had a big internet presence) but perhaps didn't link to it then.  Even the folk talking sense, like Rhetorician and the guy you quoted, use too many  words. 

 

[formergothardite]

Has this "seminary" already gone under? 

[Palimpsest]

Just now, formergothardite said:

Has this "seminary" already gone under? 

The Church still exists but the page no longer mentions or links to the seminary.  Also all the old links to the seminary are dead.   https://ebcnewington.com/

It was pretty much a mail order degree.  I looked over the requirements carefully - again ages ago.  I should rummage back through old threads to be confirm, but from memory: Candidates had a book list to read, perhaps spent 6 weeks on the campus taking classes (but that was negotiable), and then wrote a paper.  I remember John saying he just sent in a copy of a sermon to get his "masters."  Mind you, I expect it was a very long sermon.

[Palimpsest]

The Emmanuel seminary seems to be completely dead.  The pastor and "Dean" have moved on.  But this was a fun little rabbithole.

Here's the pastor today:  http://bbchixson.org/about-us/our-pastor  He got his doctorate from Ambassador College, which has also gone under: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambassador_College

And here is "Dean" Geocentricity himself: http://www.bbc-cromwell.org/pastor.shtml and his seminal article Biblically proving that that the earth is the center of the universe.   http://www.geocentricity.com/ba1/no117/geocasestudy.html

But, fear not.  Tom Strouse has a new seminary.  http://www.bbc-cromwell.org/seminary.shtml

This is very close to John's "masters" as I remember it:

Quote

 

MASTER DEGREES
Applicants to all Master Degree programs musthold [sic] a Bachelor Degree from an approved institution.

 

But if you don't have a Bachelor Degree we can approve your homeschool educational institution.

Quote

MASTER OF BIBLICAL STUDIES (M.B.S.)
This degree program is designed for the student who seeks a seminary-level, biblical and theological education to prepare them for the Baptist ministry as a pastor, missionary, youth pastor, Bible teacher or Christian worker in local church positions. A minimum of 32 semester hours or credit must be completed for the Master of Biblical Studies degree. All grades applied to this degree must be B or better (B for transfer).

32 credit hours in all (but two of them are for church ministry - send proof of a sermon.)  $100 per credit.  You can do the whole thing on line except for the church ministry.  Send money in advance!

And don't forget to attach a brief statement of your salvation experience if you decide to apply.

[EyesOpen]

This is infuriating all these fake educational institutions sending doctrinally illiterate idiots out and people believing they’re trained pastors! My grandfather was an episcopal priest. He studied at real institutions literally in to retirement. Secular and religious institutions. Accredited institutions. He took up Spanish in his 70s when he was helping at their church out west well pas lt his retirement so he could help minister to the Mexican community. Absolutely infuriating. These snake oil salespeople are leading believers down the wrong paths with their ill informed ‘religion’