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Let's discuss fundamentalism in the UK!


blessalessi

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14 minutes ago, Kak said:

Was that in Fermanagh? A border region anyway I think? 

South Armagh. Traumatised the very small, mixed community there.

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53 minutes ago, Kak said:

I knew 2 girls (at school) who were part of that group. Both went to regular schools, and both were secretly rebellious. Both girls toed the line at home but were kind of out of control any chance they got.

I don't know those names you used, but they do fit with the mystery of the group. 

 

Was that in Fermanagh? A border region anyway I think? 

           I know a family involved. The girl eventually left but would tell funny stories about stealing her dad's jeans and changing into them on at school. She went to public school too.

       I would love to find a blog or for someone to come and talk about them on here.

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11 hours ago, louisa05 said:

 

 As I have long understood it, and I have a boatload of extended family involved in the Midwestern Church of Christ movement--some as pastors and evangelists, the most fundie version of the CoC is pretty isolated to the Midwest and West.  They only accepted clergy educated at the unaccredited Midwestern School of Evangelism in Ottumwa, Iowa (which is now closed) and are pretty hardcore fundie, including cutting off friends and family who are not part of their group. And if you want to come tell me that is not true, either, I can tell you all the family rifts that were caused by the fact that they indeed did that. 

This article nicely breaks down the different movements within the CoC movement and notes the group in the Midwest and West that was affiliated with the school at Ottumwa being much more conservative. http://ex-churchofchrist.com/historyCoC.htm

If you search for info about the school, you will find articles about and by relatives of mine who were and remain heavily involved in this particular sub-sect of the CoC. 

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I've heard that some branches of the CoC are VERY fundamentalist, practice separation, stuff like that. IN MY EXPERIENCE, being involved with CoC and ICC churches in three different states in two different time zones, from the east coast to Nevada, the CoC is definitely more conservative than the ICC. However, the CoC congregations I have been involved in or visiting,  I met some of the warmest people I've ever met...and not in a "love bombing" way either.  The ICC congregation we were a part of on the east coast was not very welcoming...that's how we ended up at a CoC church there. At the ICC church in AZ, we were rather involved and it broke our hearts to leave when we moved. When we first move here to NV, we went to one ICC church, then when we move across town, we started going to the one we're at now. BOTH of them have been wonderful, full of some incredible people. We've been here at our current church for about 4 months now and have made friends like crazy. The church is one of the largest in Clark County and full of poor shlebs like us. 

Ok...just my 0.02 worth (that ain't worth that much)

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17 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

           I know a family involved. The girl eventually left but would tell funny stories about stealing her dad's jeans and changing into them on at school. She went to public school too.

       I would love to find a blog or for someone to come and talk about them on here.

Yes, I'd like to know more. They're even more mysterious than I realised. 

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I am in UK. I knew a guy at uni who was fundie-lite, I think. He met his wife at church and they married very young. He would carry his bible around everywhere, and write articles and essays on Jesus and stuff. I'm not sure what denomination he was "officially".

We got on really well, he never pushed his religion on us, never judged us for not believing the way he did, he and his wife were both lovely.

Other than him (and I don't think he really counts) I've never come across any fundies. We would do prayers very occasionally at school, I think one time we got free Bibles, but it wasn't pushed on us. Locally, Jehovah's Witnesses hand out leaflets a lot, but they're always quiet and polite and I've never had them come to my door (they usually congregate around train stations). My dad used to say because we're a very old country we've already had all of our religious arguments (Reformation, civil war etc) and are now kind of "over it" ;) 

You can see it in how birth control (and abortion, to an extent) isn't an issue here. Birth control is free on the NHS and it's completely normal. If I ever got pregnant (unlikely, due to the above) and decided I didn't want a baby, I would be able to go to my GP and get further information about my options with no fear of being judged or that I wouldn't be able to afford it.

I love my country. <3

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They are around but the UK is simply not as religious a society as the UK. I remember someone in the US telling me that it would be unacceptable to run for president being openly atheist at a point in which two of our three main party leaders (Nick clegg and Ed Miliband) were just that.  However, they are here. Check out documentaries like Deborah 13 Servant of God and Dispatches In God's Name. If I recall correctly Deborah was one of a big homeschooled family and some school in the In God's Name documentary had a science test which asked how many days it took God to make the earth. I agree with an earlier poster about clothes not being such a thing - the women in these documentaries wore jeans etc. Hence they don't stand out.  We also have a sizeable (and growing) community of Haredi Jews, mostly in Stamford Hill.

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Zsu has a fangirl in Ireland named Sarah.  She used to be a single mother feminist, but then she met her husband and they became True Christians (tm).  They live on a farm where their poor teenage daughter spends all of her time being isolated and homeschooled with no one her age around (at least MOST fundie families have similar aged siblings for company).  They found a True Believing Church, but I still feel that Amy is one of the more isolated fundie kids.  We never see her with anyone her own age.  Not sure how she'll find a husband, but that's definitely the only road she's allowed to walk.

http://sarah-heartsdesire.blogspot.com/

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I think on the political scene, the growth of the Christian Right needs to be monitored, but Nigel Farage and UKIP has many of the angry, disaffected conservative Christians mopped up right now.  Because his immigration policies will keep Muslims from taking over "our" country.

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I remember being on holiday once and driving through a town and seeing a woman walk past who was dressed Amish-style, plain long dress and head covering. We were trying to work out what her denomination was. Apart from that, not noticed many. I did see some programme once where some woman and her family were Catholic (not fundie though), they homeschooled (some of the stuff she said made me angry, she was just spewing stupid crap) and sent their kids to Girls'/Boys' Brigade. It's a bit like Girlguiding/Scouting but much more religious. I used to be a Brownie and Girl Guide and we were in a church hall and our songs were vaguely God-related, but it wasn't overt at all. Maybe cos my unit was in a CofE church, whereas another one nearby was in a Catholic church.

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In my part of London there are a lot of evangelical pop up churches who seem to draw the majority of their congregations from people from African backgrounds. They seem to push the whole prosperity thing- give us your money and devotion and God will give you anything you want. I've worked with a couple of people who attended that type of church and they had very strong views around gay marriage etc. It seems quite fundamentalist to me in its lack of seeing grey areas. 

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I know this is isn't related to the current state of fundies in the UK, but I know in the 19th century it was the first place LDS missionaries went to outside the US to recruit members. A huge number of the original Mormon pioneers to Utah were immigrants from the UK who had been converted by missionaries. To this day, English ancestry is the most common background for people in Utah, unlike surrounding states in the Mountain West where German is the majority ancestry for Caucasians.

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3 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

I remember being on holiday once and driving through a town and seeing a woman walk past who was dressed Amish-style, plain long dress and head covering. We were trying to work out what her denomination was. Apart from that, not noticed many. I did see some programme once where some woman and her family were Catholic (not fundie though), they homeschooled (some of the stuff she said made me angry, she was just spewing stupid crap) and sent their kids to Girls'/Boys' Brigade. It's a bit like Girlguiding/Scouting but much more religious. I used to be a Brownie and Girl Guide and we were in a church hall and our songs were vaguely God-related, but it wasn't overt at all. Maybe cos my unit was in a CofE church, whereas another one nearby was in a Catholic church.

Slightly surprised they sent their kids to Girl's/Boy's Brigade. I went to RC Brownies and Girl Guides - my Guide Captain was a nun! - and we wore a yellow and white tie* instead of the brown or blue, and our troop flag was the yellow and white Vatican flag. There was definitely a religious spin: we even had our annual camp in the grounds of a convent, and we had Church Parade at Sunday Mass.

*It was really tricky tying your tie so the body was yellow, and the across bit was white! But that is in the antediluvian era when we still had ties that tied........somewhere in the early 60s?

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1 hour ago, sawasdee said:

Slightly surprised they sent their kids to Girl's/Boy's Brigade. I went to RC Brownies and Girl Guides - my Guide Captain was a nun! - and we wore a yellow and white tie* instead of the brown or blue, and our troop flag was the yellow and white Vatican flag. There was definitely a religious spin: we even had our annual camp in the grounds of a convent, and we had Church Parade at Sunday Mass.

*It was really tricky tying your tie so the body was yellow, and the across bit was white! But that is in the antediluvian era when we still had ties that tied........somewhere in the early 60s?

Never heard of RC Brownies. Sounds very odd. I've looked it up and the only likely thing was something in Ireland. Are you Irish? 

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1 hour ago, sawasdee said:

Slightly surprised they sent their kids to Girl's/Boy's Brigade. I went to RC Brownies and Girl Guides - my Guide Captain was a nun! - and we wore a yellow and white tie* instead of the brown or blue, and our troop flag was the yellow and white Vatican flag. There was definitely a religious spin: we even had our annual camp in the grounds of a convent, and we had Church Parade at Sunday Mass.

 

We had Briginees (?sp) instead of Brownies. My aunt sent her kids to Brownies/Scouts and it was scandalous! 

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1 hour ago, EmainMacha said:

In my part of London there are a lot of evangelical pop up churches who seem to draw the majority of their congregations from people from African backgrounds. They seem to push the whole prosperity thing- give us your money and devotion and God will give you anything you want. I've worked with a couple of people who attended that type of church and they had very strong views around gay marriage etc. It seems quite fundamentalist to me in its lack of seeing grey areas. 

There was a BBC documentary about African prosperity churches about 10 years ago.  The witch children?

It is really annoying me that I can't remember the name of the group my old school friend joined.  I know she's still in because she contacted me a couple of years ago to try to convert me again.  Very Evangelical if not cult- type organization beginning with T.

@sawasdee your description of the Mediaeval Banquet made me howl with laughter.

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17 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

There was a BBC documentary about African prosperity churches about 10 years ago.  The witch children?

I watched that show. Freaked me out. Especially when they followed that poor child who'd been dumped in Democratic Republic of Congo to fend for himself. That degree of mistreatment/abuse of children in churches should not be able to happen and I hope it isn't as frequent an issue as the programme suggested. 

 

Edited to say: NO degree of mistreatment/abuse of children should be able to happen in churches.

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@mango_fandangoSorry I wasn't very clear - it was regular Brownies and Guides, but a Roman Catholic troop, meetings held at the local church hall.

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10 hours ago, Georgiana said:

Zsu has a fangirl in Ireland named Sarah.  She used to be a single mother feminist, but then she met her husband and they became True Christians (tm).  They live on a farm where their poor teenage daughter spends all of her time being isolated and homeschooled with no one her age around (at least MOST fundie families have similar aged siblings for company).  They found a True Believing Church, but I still feel that Amy is one of the more isolated fundie kids.  We never see her with anyone her own age.  Not sure how she'll find a husband, but that's definitely the only road she's allowed to walk.

http://sarah-heartsdesire.blogspot.com/

I was going to mention her too, but you beat me to it :)

Amy is Sarah's first child, born before before Sarah met her hunk 'o' burning Christianity husband, Brian. Up until then, I think they lived a pretty typical life with Sarah's parents (I think...).

Sarah and Brian have gone on to have Dylan (8), Meg (5) and Abigail (1) and she's pregnant again and due in September. Of course. 

Poor Amy has a terrible life now. She's a sister mum to 3, nearly four, she's homeschooled, has her reading monitored, is skirts-only and all the usual fundie guff. I also get the impression she is somehow the "left out" child due to Brian not being her father. I'm not sure that's right, it's just an impression I get. The poor girl looks so miserable in some of her photos, I'd love to see her escape to her grand parents.

Sarah is such a smug person. Very judgemental and it's no surprise she and Brian think PP and Zsu are wonderful. Zsu even sewed up a swim suit each for Sarah and Amy, so they're thick as thieves.

Quote

Despite being a busy, homeschooling momma to six children and a Pastors wife, Mrs Anderson had our suits made up and mailed to us super fast!  We are so thankful for her kindness and generosity! Their family is such an encouragement to us!   Amy and I were absolutely thrilled with our suits, and lots of people have complimented us on them!  I think we may have started a new fashion here in Ireland!

Ugh!

http://sarah-heartsdesire.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/our-beautiful-new-swimsuits.html

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On 3/31/2016 at 2:06 PM, feministxtian said:

Initially, the Stone/Campbell (Restoration) movement was an attempt at reformation. The new group was called the Disciples of Christ. However, now there are three different groups, ranging from pretty conservative to moderate to liberal, known as The Church of Christ (CoC), Independent Christian Churches (ICC) and Disciples of Christ (DoC) respectively. I occasionally attend the local CoC congregation here, although we belong to an ICC congregation. 

(To highlighted)

Is this the same DoC organization that partnered with the United Church of Christ? 

The United Church of Christ appears to be very progressive.  I remember in the mid-2000 they received criticism for some outstanding commercials.  The commercials advocated acceptance of all, regardless of race, sex, religion, sexual identity, etc., unfortunately some network affiliates refused to air the commercial.  

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@ALM7 The UCC, DoC  and some Methodist congregations are known as "affirming" congregations. I don't know about a partnering agreement between the DoC and UCC, I can ask a DoC pastor I know though. 

If you don't say it too loud to the more conservative people at our church, we are also "undercover" affirming...just not making a helluva lot of waves...ya know? 

I know this might be an odd place for this but...one of our pastors was killed in a car accident Wednesday night, literally around the corner from where I live. His "boss" is planning to go see the young man who caused the accident and tell him that he is forgiven, and when he gets out he is welcome at our church. 

So if you could keep the the pastor's family in your thoughts....he and his wife have 4 kids...his life insurance was scheduled to kick in today, April 1. The church has pledged to take care of them financially (and the wife works), replacing his salary for at least a year. 

thanks. 

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1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

If you don't say it too loud to the more conservative people at our church, we are also "undercover" affirming...just not making a helluva lot of waves...ya know? 

Lol, working towards the positive from within, good idea!

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

I know this might be an odd place for this but...one of our pastors was killed in a car accident Wednesday night, literally around the corner from where I live. His "boss" is planning to go see the young man who caused the accident and tell him that he is forgiven, and when he gets out he is welcome at our church. 

So if you could keep the the pastor's family in your thoughts....

I'm so sorry.  I will certainly keep your members and his family in my thoughts.

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17 hours ago, EmainMacha said:

In my part of London there are a lot of evangelical pop up churches who seem to draw the majority of their congregations from people from African backgrounds. They seem to push the whole prosperity thing- give us your money and devotion and God will give you anything you want. I've worked with a couple of people who attended that type of church and they had very strong views around gay marriage etc. It seems quite fundamentalist to me in its lack of seeing grey areas. 

I've noticed a bunch of Pentecostal churches around London that seem to cater to people from Africa and the Caribbean. From what I gather, Pentecostal denominations are very strong in those parts of the world, so it makes sense that churches of those denominations would turn up in those communities.

As an American, it's a bit of a relief to be in a country where religion is not such an ever-present force as it is back home (though visiting all the pretty cathedrals here and in Europe has been wonderful); the evangelical/Pentecostal churches I see here seem to keep to themselves and provide an anchoring point for the communities they cater to, which is nice as long as they're not doing anything untoward (though I am suspicious of the whole prosperity thing you described, especially because it flourishes in lower SES communities who are more vulnerable to getting taken advantage of).

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When I was a kid, we used to call the Pentecostals the  'Happy Clappies'. There was much consternation when a cousin in New Zealand became one, and the video of her wedding was - different - to my Roman  Catholic family.They had a screen with the words to the hymns, and a bouncing ball effect to follow along. Not something seen at your average mass. I rather liked it.

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