Secular/non-Abrahamic fundies

[nuri]

I think she grew up in the American Midwest but moved to Scotland around 2001. I'm uncomfortable with the invocation of the "No True Scotsman" argument. If she identifies as a Pagan Witch, that's what she is as far as I'm concerned.

I'd love to boot Doug, the Pearls, and some others out of Christianity, but I can't even though I think they're doing it totally wrong.

Yeah, she doesn't seem to identify as as a BTW. I don't know where Cliodna is getting that from. From reading, it's clear that whatever her path, it's clearly one based in personal experience (see her side bar -- it's a rundown of ectastic traditions/titles/etc. She's clearly dealing with her mysticism here).

She's a pagan witch. No bones about it. Pagan Witchcraft isn't monolithic and doesn't have one right way to do it.

[Deleted03]

I think she has some kind of mental illness. But well that's just me...

[nuri]

I think she has some kind of mental illness. But well that's just me...

There's a thin, prourous line between mysticism and mental illness. And it's crisscrossed often. To be fair, for some, that's the point, though.

I mostly just see a mystic with a heaping dose of a spiteful personality. It takes all sorts.

(I'm a Hellenic Pagan with Dionysos as a patron. Getting out of our right minds is a huge part of my practice. I just come back from it, and usually get there via dancing, though)

[LynnKaboom]

I know absolutely nothing about paganism, but I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to feed people shrooms. Unless they actually want to eat the shrooms.

[Cliodna]

Ok, late night posting. I guess I was unclear and see where the confusion came from. The question was about Fundies, secular or Pagan? To me a Fundamentalist Pagan is bound by oath to an initiatory, recognized tradition. An initiate or dedicant would follow a protocol and laws unique to their tradition. We have a very large Pagan population in our state, From Golden Dawn, to Alexandrian ,BTW,on down to just Borders book Club meet-ups. In most of the intiatory traditions I'm aware of, the saying is "a Witch is made ,not born" and "It takes a With to make a Witch".

And yep, Nuri we are pretty boring. Most of us are older and over ourselves. The students that we're attracting these days are 'bout like graveyard dirt lady, just unfocused and needing attention. Witch wars here have pretty much flamed out and the older traditions are going back underground.

[clibbyjo]

I just read the pie thing. So, she was having sex out in the open at a castle party while eating pie at the same time? This is the pie she PEED on the berries for first am I right? WTF?

Why she she always having sex and smashing her girlie bits on everything? I don't like that.

I am kind of a mix of pagan/witch/psychic/ whatever etc... but I feel the details are private and my own. I guess its my problem she her doing all this strange stuff and people thinking the rest of us do as well. (Disclaimer: I don't touch or eat roadkill ,pee on berries,serve shrooms to my mailman or smash my ahem.. bits on everything) I think this blog is mostly for shock value and attention that she is doing this stuff. I know lots of Pagans and witches and have never known anyone who does stuff like this girl.

[Cliodna]

Right on, Clibbyjo!

Not sure what the purpose of pissing on the berries was and the signifigence of having to have the first bite of the pie. If she was practicing sexual magick you still would need the knowledge and consent of the partner unless it was a solo act. You sure wouldn't discuss it after the fact, let alone publish it.

Would not consume or use any part of an animal who had suffered an unnatural painful death. I raise and butcher my own poultry for that reason.

Giving the Mail carrier hallucinogens is an assault.

Wouldn't harm the ol' vajayjay it's sacred.

[dirtyhippiegirl]

I used to follow a couple 24/7 D/s blogs which I guess is a sort of fundie-ism? When I'm not on my husband's work computer, I'll find the links and also check out this crazy chick's blog.

[nuri]

And yep, Nuri we are pretty boring. Most of us are older and over ourselves. The students that we're attracting these days are 'bout like graveyard dirt lady, just unfocused and needing attention. Witch wars here have pretty much flamed out and the older traditions are going back underground.

Now, if we start talking local groups, I got stories. I got pushed out of a meet-up at a book store type group because ...I may be pagan but I'm not a witch (something that confused this group), and I dared to actually argue matters of theology and history instead of nod along with two women who ran the group.

The Hellenic community has it's share of drama, but that's mostly interpersonal conflicts. We get our het up over a few topics (animal sacrifice, magic and patrons, to start) but our fundie segment is actually fairly dull.

I do think, however, that we are only starting to see the start of a new community arguement as paganism hits the mainstream and some of the more less publically palatable parts either are exposed or start pushing back. It's been bubbling up over on Patheos and Wildhunt, and my RSS feeds are starting to fill up with it. It's going to be a shitstorm, more public than the witch wars and I know people on both sides of it.

I also think graveyard dirt is dealing with an entirely different set of ethics than the majority of witches will profess. And I don't think she pretends to follow the standard ethics either.

[Kitty]

What. The. Hell.

[keen23]

I wish the old forum was searchable, because I know we spoke about her over there too.

[Guest Anonymous]

I wish the old forum was searchable, because I know we spoke about her over there too.

I've had pretty decent success with using google - I just type free jinger yuku + search term/s. I don't remember her from there, but I can't keep up with all the threads so it's very possible I just missed that one.

[fakepigtails73]

I just read the pie thing. So, she was having sex out in the open at a castle party while eating pie at the same time? This is the pie she PEED on the berries for first am I right? WTF?

Why she she always having sex and smashing her girlie bits on everything? I don't like that.

I am kind of a mix of pagan/witch/psychic/ whatever etc... but I feel the details are private and my own. I guess its my problem she her doing all this strange stuff and people thinking the rest of us do as well. (Disclaimer: I don't touch or eat roadkill ,pee on berries,serve shrooms to my mailman or smash my ahem.. bits on everything) I think this blog is mostly for shock value and attention that she is doing this stuff. I know lots of Pagans and witches and have never known anyone who does stuff like this girl.

QFT!!!

I could have written what I quoted from you verbatim.

Ditto on the knowing many Pagans and-or practicionners of the magick arts, and none of them seem to be into what that girl is into. About half of them are vegetarians or vegans.

All this looking for fresh dead animals is bizarre. A dead crow or raven? Best way to catch the Nile virus.

[chiccy]

Oh shit; I was eating when I opened this thread.

Never again. I'm never gonna eat again.

[Alecto]

There are a lot of Reconstructionist Pagan fundies, but very few of them blog. They usually are called "folkish" and hold to some strict gender roles (though those are different from the Christian gender roles to a degree) and can be incredibly racist.

[Sola]

What. The. Fuck.

Still I suppose it proves that screaming fuckwittage is not confined to mainstream religionistas.

[tropaka]

Whatever this woman calls herself, feeding people possibly hallucinogenic/poisonous shrooms and mixing your bodily fluids into food and serving it to up to unknowing family members (i.e. contaminating food) also makes her a criminal.

[chiccy]

Perhaps this is an elementary question, but I'm guessing I'm not the only one who's wondering this: if secular people can be fundies, then what, exactly, defines a "fundie"? I get that a fundie is a religious fundamentalist, and that paganism is a religion, so one could be fundamentalist about that. But how exactly could one be a secular fundie? Would it just be someone who adheres strictly to weird/rigid/outdated or even arbitrary values and mores? (And if so, how is that really different from just being a zealous member of any subculture?)

"Fundamentalist" from Macmillan: "Someone who believes that original religious and political laws should be followed very strictly and should not be changed." Wondering how this could be applied independent of religion. I'm sure it's possible, but would love to see an example...

[breadprincess]

I don't know about her religion, but there's an anti-adoption fundie at a forum I frequent. She wrote a self published book about how all adoption is evil, said she would immediately disown her kids/cut off all emotional ties with them if she found out that they weren't hers (had gotten switched at birth or something), and believes infants should be killed instead of adopted out if their family can't/won't care for them.

[chiccy]

So fundies=crazies, basically?

[NurseNell]

I don't know about her religion, but there's an anti-adoption fundie at a forum I frequent. She wrote a self published book about how all adoption is evil, said she would immediately disown her kids/cut off all emotional ties with them if she found out that they weren't hers (had gotten switched at birth or something), and believes infants should be killed instead of adopted out if their family can't/won't care for them.

That would be Jess. I've known her since 1995 when she was 15. I disagree with her on adoption but I do like her and we are friends on Facebook.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Perhaps this is an elementary question, but I'm guessing I'm not the only one who's wondering this: if secular people can be fundies, then what, exactly, defines a "fundie"? I get that a fundie is a religious fundamentalist, and that paganism is a religion, so one could be fundamentalist about that. But how exactly could one be a secular fundie? Would it just be someone who adheres strictly to weird/rigid/outdated or even arbitrary values and mores? (And if so, how is that really different from just being a zealous member of any subculture?)

"Fundamentalist" from Macmillan: "Someone who believes that original religious and political laws should be followed very strictly and should not be changed." Wondering how this could be applied independent of religion. I'm sure it's possible, but would love to see an example...

If we require "original..." then I'm not certain.

However, if we just stick with "dogmatic and insisting there is One True Way that everyone must follow, and constantly looking to purge outsiders" then I'd consider some political movements (or rather, the extreme ends of same) to qualify.

But yeah. Zealots, I guess. Probably not quite the same thing as fundies.

To take another tack, there's plenty of snark to be had about people who insist on completely unscientific beliefs. Fundies definitely qualify, but there are plenty of people who go completely overboard for various wacky non-scientific woo medical "treatments" and the like, particularly when it comes to health food. Just go to any website of the main out there diets, fruitarians, raw foodists, all that, you can find plenty of both dogmatism and unscientific "toxins" talk. Additionally, there are plenty of people who don't seem to have any particular religious background but who go on and on about whatever problems are plaguing people surely are rooted in past life experiences.

If it's about snarkability, then some combination of dogmatism, proselytizing, and insistence on blind faith over presented evidence will always lead to snark and epic flame threads. People build their identity around all sorts of things, and if that gets threatened... time to break out the popcorn, as a lurker.

[Soldier of the One]

I'd define a secular fundie as someone who uses the same approach/methodology/attitude as a religious fundie: incorrigible, my-way-is-the-highway, proselytizing/coercing others to their position, unreceptive to criticism, extreme in views (while positing views as mainstream) and generally obnoxious.

Ah. That was me as a radical lefty 15 years ago :P

[ShesCrafty]

I missed this thread back in September but holy fuck :shock:.

To me, a fundamentalist is anyone who thinks whatever particular belief they hold is absolute and anyone who believes differently is a threat. So, if someone thinks that it is morally correct to eat rotten roadkill and break showers while having anal sex and anyone who doesn't is wrong and going to hell...they are a fundamentalist. (Not saying that is what this particular woman on this blog is implying, as I haven't had the stomach to read it, just using this as an example).

But peeing on berries and then feeding them to unsuspecting people? That's fucked up. :D

[J-Watcher]

Yikes--someone get the net!

Seriously! Back in the "good old days", people like this got hauled off to the psych hospital and were never heard from again. Granted, in those "good old days", a lot of people also got hauled off to the psych hospital who shouldn't have been, but the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction now. This woman definitely needs a one-way ride out of free society.