So, I guess Michael Pearl is not strict enough

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, picklepizzas said:

From his "about" page: There are thousands of godly young men and women who are ready to be married but aren't... this is not good.

i would love to hear his thoughts on the maxwells...or the arndts...

Or Anna Sophia & Elizabeth Botkin, or the Ah-the-Lifers.

[princessmahina]

Bob Shupe is a part of this? How odd. He and Erika freely chose each other- does he want to deny that option to his own children? Perhaps he thinks he would be in a happier marriage if his father had chosen for him. Hmm...

 

Either way, I hope those kids get out of the Hamster Cage.

[Koala]

Facebook has a way of showing Bob Shupe for who he really is, time and time again.

[typo brahe]

...Has anyone else mentioned that the author found us and updated his post to address us? That whole website makes me more than a little uncomfortable. Kinda weird having confirmation that someone we snark about reads here. It's strangely ironic. Are you reading this now, godly men at letthemmarry.org? If you are, we mean you no harm. We come in snark peace!

Anyway, that's all; back to lurking for me!

[prayawaythefundie]

4 hours ago, picklepizzas said:

ETA: also the phrasing in each of the 'about me' paragraphs is odd. "Husband to one, father to six..." "Husband to one, father to two..." Are they supportive of plural marriage, too?

No, I don't think they support plural marriage. That wording caught my eye as well and the way I interpreted it, it is very offensive towards their wives. They count them like they do with children. I took it as they considering them just as unable to make their own decisions, just as much expected to blindly obey and just as much a non-person. These people are "giving their daughters" to some stranger, admitting they don't care who that guy is. They think they own their daughter's sexuality until giving her to that stranger who then owns it. It is just that repulsive.

[DaffyDill]

The whole thing disgusts me completely. 

What can you expect though when the website linked to by the OP has an article called "Woman as a necessary evil"?

Quote

I imagine that if women were to write books they would say exactly the same thing about men. What they have failed to set down in writing, however, they express with their grumbling and complaining whenever they get together.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

2 hours ago, DaffyDill said:

The whole thing disgusts me completely. 

What can you expect though when the website linked to by the OP has an article called "Woman as a necessary evil"?

That's actually writing from Martin Luther, criticizing that attitude. It's a bit confusing, but if you go back and read it again you'll see what I mean. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

It's fantastic!  They expressed our purposes in a sort of appealing manner. Were I trapped in an oppressive cult I'd definitely google free jinger out of curiosity after reading that. And now the reference will vanish in 3...2...1

I read the very first comments and I have to say these superior (in their minds) men are as stupid as shit. And it's a good thing,  they sound so out of touch that their ideas can't get much hold iexcept among psycho, controlling bastards, and that's bad enough. If that's their holy life and their heaven, hell is a more appealing,  sensed and sane place by quite a far. And the God they describe is a terrifying, capricious, controlling being, full of hate and nastiness, much nearer to Satan than to then omnipotent,  benign god that loves his people. Even the dear Botkinettes  that think all this so right and holy have chosen spinsterhood, clever girls. Or it's the duck biologist the one who cannot relinquish the control over his daughters' lives? Or there aren't that many young Christian (of their specific brand of crazy) men out there after all?

[Anonymousguest]

If they were consistent they would believe in polygamy. They are basing the idea of a father chosen spouse on the couple of marriages mentioned from their beginnings, and have struck down the idea that it was meeting the culture of the time. He says that it's God's culture, do is still relevant today. All those same marriages were also polygamous, so I don't see how they can argue against it. They are also over looking the marriages where the man clearly choose the spouse workout the fathers input. 

 

The article on patriarchy is also interesting, be hours into detail about how many times it's mentioned in the bible, how many men were specifically called patriarchs, defines it as being the starter of a lineage. And then decided it can also man father ruler and applies it to all fathers. Pretty lofty to put himself on the same level as Abraham Isaac and Jacob. 

[DaisyD]

There's too much wtf on that site. I don't even know where to begin. 

I was tempted to argue the "anti-Christian" label, but I doubt the he would consider me a Christian, even though I am, so there's probably no point. We are definitely anti- whatever the heck this freaky flavor of Christianity is.

You can't count a marriage successful if there's no option to leave. My marriage is successful because I could leave but I'd rather be here than anywhere else. Staying doesn't mean much when it's your only option. 

[hoipolloi]

Hi, Vaughn Ohlman - thanks for the direct link!

We expect many new members from it. When they come here, they'll not only discover that you're an ignorant fraud but, if they've had the misfortune to heed anything you say, they'll find the courage & knowledge to leave your sick cult because the truth at FJ will free them from your lies.

 

[Koala]

*sigh* I don't even deserve internet.  For the life of me I can't find the FJ article.  Link please? 

[Howl]

17 hours ago, picklepizzas said:

ETA: also the phrasing in each of the 'about me' paragraphs is odd. "Husband to one, father to six..." "Husband to one, father to two..." Are they supportive of plural marriage, too?

No, I think it's the opposite -- to confirm that although they are strictly conforming to (their version of) the biblical standard of arranged marriages, they don't conform to the very, very biblical standards of concubines, slaves and multiple wives.  Yes, cognitive dissonance surely, but there you have it. Noting here that "husband to one" doesn't seem to preclude a gay husband. They might want to be more specific.  

So many of these ministries are one person (a penis holder) who has his own interpretation of the bible (God spoke to me!) and is trying to set the world up to reflect this back to him. 

Beat your kids more!

Family Integrated Churches!

Homeschool with Wisdom Booklets!

Unschool!

Courtship!

Courtship?  Hells no == betrothal only! 

SAHD! 

SAHI! (Stays At Home Indefinitely) You know who you are, Arndts, Maxhells, et al.. 

You're gonna burn in a lake o' fire! 

Your children are born evil! Beat them even more! (Thanks a lot, Voddie Baucham)

Corrective Discipline for Wives! (There's a special place in hell reserved just for you)

Women bad! (Thanks, Mark Driscoll)

The Doug Wilson Professional Never Apologizing or Admitting Wrongdoing School &  Pedophile Sanctuary

Oh, my.  I just can't go on and on and on.  I'm going to my fainting couch.  No, no smelling salts.  I just want to have a big collapse. 

 

 

 

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

1 hour ago, Koala said:

*sigh* I don't even deserve internet.  For the life of me I can't find the FJ article.  Link please? 

It's not an article by itself but more an addition tat the end of the post the OP linked.

[Kittikatz]

I only got through some of the comments in this asshat's article and the pathetic insecurity and stupid is strong in this one. 

I will never understand why some men think dehumanising women (using non specific biblical justifications noless) makes them look like they are big men. If they were truly a stong, capable person, they would be building others up and encouraging them to take ownership and responsibility for their own lives. To make decisions and figure out how to get where they want to go as independent adults. I truly want to beat my head against the desk. 

I cannot fathom how someone who has even a basic understanding of English can think that the concept of 'force' only refers to a gun to the head. And that they can refuse to grasp the idea of coercion

Also - Who cares if their future son in law meets their daughters ex? I've dated plenty of men. I've met some of their exes and some of them have met some of my exes. Nobody died. No heads exploded. It was always chill and sometimes friendly.  WTF is wrong with someone that this would even be a big deal?

[Howl]

Sophie seems to be holding ol' Vaughn's feet to the fire on the topic of force. 

[Marian the Librarian]

Ohlman is intensely and excessively interested in the sex lives of young people. I think he's a pervert.

[Anonymousguest]

37 minutes ago, Howl said:

Sophie seems to be holding ol' Vaughn's feet to the fire on the topic of force. 

Only because he wouldn't answer the question directly. I didn't read every comment, just skimmed through, but there is another lengthy exchange between him and a guy named Nathan. Nathan wants to know if one of Vs sons was interested in a particular girl if he would ask her to marry his son. Rather than say yes or no, he goes around and around about lime green Toyotas not being available, and eventually leads to Jacob being in lust with Rachael, not love. 

[libriatrix]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

 

The Doug Wilson Professional Never Apologizing or Admitting Wrongdoing School &  Pedophile Sanctuary

.... This is just... this is fantastic. I really want this to be memorialized somewhere. Too bad it's not quite appropriate for a post count title.

[purple_summer]

Why did I read that?

I'm going to be ill.

[salex]

OK, this is what he got out of out conversation...

Quote

As well, they seem to think that we hold it as a doctrine that the young man and woman to be married can't have known each other before hand. We don't hold that. We do hold they don't have to have known each other before hand; and we do hold that it isn't Biblical to give them some kind of veto, etc.

Dude... your reading comprehension must be low.  Yeah, we think you should let the couple know one another but the thing I find most offensive is the lack of veto power of either of the people who are not expected to live together forever. 

BTW, I married at 20 to a man I picked and we've lived quite happily ever after since 79.  My parents didn't know his parents and might never have found him if they were looking, but there has never been a man II've med who I respect and likemore than I respect and like him.  And yes, I knew and loved him before I married him, and we even began talking about marriage the first day we met-- but it was US doing the deciding, not my dad and his.  

 ETA.. I never saw FJ as anti Christian, per se, as much as anti asshole....

The minor distinctions made by Von / voughn between his version of betrothal and islamic "forced marriage" lie mosly in his imagination.  I suspect more islamic and other arranged marriages (hindu?) are like he describes his son's marriage than not.

 

[Grimalkin]

Well, he seemed respectful in his address to us..........I am not one to post on the blogs of those we discuss here. I always wonder with people like him why he takes this part of the bible so literally and does not seem to care about the bulk of Jesus' teachings. Jesus cared about everyone, he loved everyone. He believed in compassion and mercy. What do these people do for widows and orphans? The hungry, the homeless the oppressed and unloved? What does he do for the kingdom of God? He only seems to care about his own people. What would he do for his neighbor? Would he stop and help a person robbed, beaten and left half dead along the road?

[prayawaythefundie]

4 hours ago, Anonymousguest said:

Nathan wants to know if one of Vs sons was interested in a particular girl if he would ask her to marry his son. Rather than say yes or no, he goes around and around about lime green Toyotas not being available, and eventually leads to Jacob being in lust with Rachael, not love. 

That would be a no. The reason: Because he can. It is all about feeling powerful.

[onlyme]

Rebecca was asked if she wanted to go with Abraham's servant to meet Issac. Maybe he didn't have a choice, but she sure did. Abigail went behind her husband's back and told king-to-be David that her husband was an idiot. Hannah made promises to Eli without her husband's permission. Elisabeth told Abraham that her servant needed to go and when Abraham went to God to complain, God sided with Elisabeth. Ruth basically proposed to Boaz. 

The fantasy these hyper patriarchs have isn't even in the Bible. 

[CyborgKin]

My reading of the Bible is that parents may give some useful advice or even some suggestions with regards to marriage.

Controlling parents who think they can find the right partner for their child so their mariage will just 'work' are wrong and are setting thrm up for a lot of grief.  Though any method of achieving that is the same.  Marriage takes a lot of effort and commitment, whatever steps and choices (or lack of choiced) leads to the match.

Not that I'm the slightest bit qualified to comment.  But that's the idea I've somehow picked up from observing the world.