Wheaton College Moves To Fire Professor For Saying Muslims And Christians 'Worship The Same God'

[December]

On 1/7/2016 at 0:44 PM, Flyinthesoup said:

This is how I understand it.  I was a bit shocked when I read the title of this thread.  

Same here. I was actually taught in church classes that the Abrahamic faiths all worship the same God. The way it was explained to us by the priest was that religions evolve.  

That said, not shocked at this news. You can usually get a solid idea of what kind of environment a college is trying to create/enforce (both in academics and lifestyle) by looking at its website and a few simple internet searches.

[canbritam]

On 1/7/2016 at 4:06 PM, Eater of Worlds said:

I read this op-ed about not wearing the hijab in solidarity and they make some really good points.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/12/21/as-muslim-women-we-actually-ask-you-not-to-wear-the-hijab-in-the-name-of-interfaith-solidarity/

 

One of the authors had a bit on NPR about it.  She said this and it really hit home about how wearing it in solidarity isn't doing what people think it is.  "And what we caution well-intentioned Americans and others to think about is whether the scarf matches their own values related to issues of honor and shame." http://www.npr.org/2015/12/22/460729859/the-case-against-wearing-hijab-to-support-muslim-women

 

Apologies about the dfferent sized lettering, I don't have a way to change the size in this box.

 

 

 

And as a hijab wearing woman, who the majority of my friends are also hijab wearing women, not all of us feel this way.  In fact, many of us appreciate what we view as support, especially by those who are doing it so that they can experience what we experience when it comes to bigotry on an unfortunately growing regular basis.  

As for the same God, we believe that we worship the same God, but we do not believe that Jesus is God.  We don't believe that Jesus ever said he was God, which is some of where the belief comes from.  Funnily, my Orthodox Jewish friends and I agree that we worship the same God.  It's the Christians in my life that dispute it.  So if Muslims and Jews worship the same God, then we question what God Christians worship.  (Fortunately, my friends of other faiths and I enjoy theological discussions!)

[livinginthelight]

As a Christian with loose ties to Wheaton I've been following this story. My understanding is the professor did check beforehand with local Muslim authorities to see if her wearing of the hijab would be offensive. They told her it would not be.

Put me firmly in the camp of those confused and angry about Wheaton's stance. It has to be an anti-Muslim thing, because, if one takes biblical genealogies literally, the Bible is clear that Abraham is the father (and therefore spiritual father)  of Muslims as well as Christians and Jews. Genesis 16 recounts the story of Abraham's son Ishmael being born through Sarah's slave Hagar. In 16:10, the angel of God promises Hagar that Ishmael's descendants will be "too numerous to count." 16:12 goes on to predict the conflict between the descendants of Ishmael and Isaac (Abraham's son by Sarah and the ancestor of Jews and Christians.)

So if Muslims are descended through Ishmael and claim Abraham as their father (as they do), wouldn't their god, the god of Abraham, be the same god of the Jews and Christians?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

On January 7, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Cleopatra7 said:

I agree, but would go even farther and say that the conception of god is very different even between Catholics and Protestants, and between individual Christians. Does God want priests or ministers? Is Mary just some random woman who happened to give birth to Jesus, a saint worthy of veneration, or the Co-Redemptress? Does God wanted churches with stained glass windows or does he want plain structures? Is the mass a hierarchical bloodless sacrifice or a communal meal about Jesus's life? Or does God hate the idea of the mass and favor hymn singing and lengthy preaching? The question of who God is and whether he was a god of Catholicism or a god of Protestant led to decades of war and bloodshed in Europe. Right here in the US, people were killed over what Bible translation should be read in the public schools (google the Philadelphia Bible Riots). This all leads me to believe "god" is a psychological projection of whatever the believer's greatest hopes and aspirations are, which explains why "god" differs so greatly from person to person.

Just from my pov isn't not exactly the same.  in most of Christianity each sect will have different interpretations of God, some more divergent than others, but there isn't a question that they are referred to the same entity.

As a Catholic I can assure you I have a very different take on who God is to me and the take away of His message than do the Duggars.  But I'm just as confident that we'd all agree that were talking about the same beings when referring to God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

Just like with people.  My family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc may all have a different take on who I am to them...for some that opinion will be harsher than for others, but if they were in a room arguing about whether I'm the humorless selfish bitch or the one who adores them and puts on puppet shows for the cats they would all agree they were talking about the same person whose name is on my drivers license.

if she's saying that some feel the God as Islamic people know him could,not possibly also be the God of Christiantiy that's a far more fundamental difference and one I cannot vet as I don't have the knowledge in this area.

Fwiw my experience being intimately familiar with various flavor of fundy lite as well as many of the mainstream Christian denominations one of the consistent beliefs in all is that the God of the Old Testament (of the Jews) is one and the same as ours.  Same drivers license.  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I have a question about something Prof. Hawkins said:

from the article:  

Quote

On her Facebook page on Dec. 10, Hawkins said she would wear the hijab in solidarity with Muslim neighbors. "I stand in religious solidarity with Muslims because they, like me, a Christian, are people of the book

I had never heard the term "people of the book" before so a quick Google showed the following from Wikipedia:  

"

Quote

People of the Book" in the Qur'an refers to followers of monotheistic Abrahamic religions that are older than Islam. This includes all Christians, all Children of Israel (including Jews, Karaites and Samaritans), and Sabians.

There were other references of course but wiki gave me the most consice summary for the purpose of this post.

So from my admittedly quick search it appears she holds a pov which is inconsistent with Muslim teaching, as they don't consider themselves to be "people of the book."  

I'm just curious as to what she meant by that and if it could be one of the inconsistencies with which Wheaton has issues.  

 

 

[canbritam]

7 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I have a question about something Prof. Hawkins said:

from the article:  

I had never heard the term "people of the book" before so a quick Google showed the following from Wikipedia:  

"

There were other references of course but wiki gave me the most consice summary for the purpose of this post.

So from my admittedly quick search it appears she holds a pov which is inconsistent with Muslim teaching, as they don't consider themselves to be "people of the book."  

I'm just curious as to what she meant by that and if it could be one of the inconsistencies with which Wheaton has issues.  

 

 

You mean, Muslims don't consider themselves to be People of the Book?  If that's what you meant, then no, that's incorrect - we very much consider ourselves to be People of the Book.  To us, People of the Book are those that are Abrahamic - Jews, Christians and Muslims.  And "The Book" is actually those that follow the Torah, the Injeel (Gospels) and Qur'an.  

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

So from my admittedly quick search it appears she holds a pov which is inconsistent with Muslim teaching, as they don't consider themselves to be "people of the book."  

It's my understanding that the whole point of the concept of People of the Book in Islam is to indicate religious kinship. Basically it means the Muslim belief that the other Abrahamic faith groups have received divine revelation on some level, just not the full and complete revelation of the Quran.

Of course, any Muslims reading this should feel free to correct me if I have that wrong.

[canbritam]

17 minutes ago, Mercer said:

It's my understanding that the whole point of the concept of People of the Book in Islam is to indicate religious kinship. Basically it means the Muslim belief that the other Abrahamic faith groups have received divine revelation on some level, just not the full and complete revelation of the Quran.

Of course, any Muslims reading this should feel free to correct me if I have that wrong.

Yes, that's it exactly.  The revelation to the Jews was the Torah.  The revelation to the Christians was the Gospel (Injeel).  The revelation to Muslims was the Quran.  

[Arete]

It's been settled.  She is not going to return to teaching, but Wheaton has withdrawn the firing threat.  This smells of a behind-the-scenes legal settlement to me.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-wheaton-college-professor-firing-reversal-20160206-story.html