Wheaton College Moves To Fire Professor For Saying Muslims And Christians 'Worship The Same God'

[doggie]

well I guess you need to be fired for telling the ugly truth.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wheaton-college-christianity-islam_568cffdfe4b0a2b6fb6de759

Quote

Wheaton College, an evangelical Christian university outside of Chicago, said on Tuesday it was taking steps to fire a tenured political science professor after she wrote in a Facebook post that Muslims and Christians worship the same God.

Dr. Larycia Hawkins wrote on the social media site on Dec. 10 that she was donning the hijab head scarf during the period of advent before Christmas as a sign of solidarity with Muslims. In her post she said "we worship the same God."

Hawkins was placed on administrative leave after the comment drew criticism, and on Tuesday the school said in a statement Wheaton's provost had delivered a notice to President Philip Ryken recommending her employment be terminated.

"This Notice follows the impasse reached by the parties," the statement said. "Dr. Hawkins declined to participate in further dialogue about the theological implications of her public statements," it said.

 

[DomWackTroll]

Tim Bayly post on how Wheaton is still too liberal in 3... 2... 1...

[Howl]

Well, so much for academic freedom at a fundie college.  And so much for teachable moments, you know, those instances where a fascinating situation arises and is then discussed openly. Firing a tenured professor sends a serious message to other faculty to toe the party line.  I hope she sues the shit out of them (if she didn't sign away that right when she was hired there).  

Does it seem like women faculty at these institutions are more likely to be fired in these instances, or are women more likely to think outside the box and end up in these situations?  I truly hope this woman is offered a senior tenured position at a secular college.  

A few more hmmmmm moments: 

Quote

 The school has said that Hawkins was not placed on leave because she wore a hijab, but because her "theological statements seem inconsistent with Wheaton College’s doctrinal convictions."

'Seem inconsistent' is tepid (and weasel word language) for such a drastic firing.  

Technically, she has been placed on administrative leave and hasn't yet been formally fired, but it's just a matter of time. 

[libriatrix]

Coming from an evangelical background, I can see some justification for them firing her: if a requirement of being on the faculty is to sign a confession of Christian faith, her statement seems to deny the Trinity and therefore contradict the confession she's required to hold to in order to teach there. Said this to the bf and he said that's why Christian colleges shouldn't exist and I kind of agree. It's pretty horrible to have your job depend on your faith: If you come to believe something different about some of the things evangelical colleges will require you to attest to, including non-salvific doctrine like 6-day creation and premillenialism then ta-da! You have a choice between dishonesty or losing your job and a lot of your chances of being hired anywhere else. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

You mean College Ignorance? 

[libriatrix]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

'Seem inconsistent' is tepid (and weasel word language) for such a drastic firing.  

Technically, she has been placed on administrative leave and hasn't yet been formally fired, but it's just a matter of time. 

Yeah if they do move on to firing her they absolutely better have a more valid description of the problem than "seems". 

[samira_catlover]

I am WAYYYYY totally hoping the professorial union comes in on this.

EXCUSE ME: I am wanting to wear out a hijab my UU fellows will probs not mind)-----

but damnitall: what I wear (assuming street-legal) REALLY should nor matter.

 

[PennySycamore]

1 hour ago, libriatrix said:

Coming from an evangelical background, I can see some justification for them firing her: if a requirement of being on the faculty is to sign a confession of Christian faith, her statement seems to deny the Trinity and therefore contradict the confession she's required to hold to in order to teach there. Said this to the bf and he said that's why Christian colleges shouldn't exist and I kind of agree. It's pretty horrible to have your job depend on your faith: If you come to believe something different about some of the things evangelical colleges will require you to attest to, including non-salvific doctrine like 6-day creation and premillenialism then ta-da! You have a choice between dishonesty or losing your job and a lot of your chances of being hired anywhere else. 

How does her statement deny the Trinity?  Does that mean that Jews also worship a different god?  They absolutely do not believe in the Trinity and neither do some Christians.

[SilverBeach]

Yes, check out oneness Pentecostals. I like how the professor said "The did not give me Jesus and they cannot take a him away."

24 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

How does her statement deny the Trinity?  Does that mean that Jews also worship a different god?  They absolutely do not believe in the Trinity and neither do some Christians.

 

[DomWackTroll]

4 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

Tim Bayly post on how Wheaton is still too liberal in 3... 2... 1...

And here it is! I think he made record time!

http://baylyblog.com/blog/2016/01/scandal-evangelical-college

[MamaJunebug]

Having grown up in a very Christ-centered denomination, I can suggest It isn't that her statement "denies the Trinity" as much as it is that her statement would equate the Trinity with Allah or HaShem (as I will refer to the Jewish concept of God for purposes of this post). 

In orthodox (traditional, not Greek nor Russian nor other Orthodox churchbodies) Christian doctrine, the one true God is understood and worshiped as Father, Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. 

To them, the Jewish reverence towards HaShem is not the same as worship of God the Father, since HaShem does not include God the Son. 

Muslim worship of Allah is considered the worship of not the true God  

OK, so you could say that if she thinks Allah and HaShem are as truly God as is the Triune God, she's denying the Trinity.

But my educated guess is that she's coming from the point of view that says, "We all see God differently, and while I worship God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, others worship God by other names."

Wheaton's weasly "seems to be" is inexplicable.  I can't imagine TPTB didn't just ask her what she meant and then say, "We teach that only God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and that's part of what we expect our profs to teach."

baffling. 

[FaithAndReason]

So I grew up in a liberal Chirstian home in Wheaton and this isn't surprising at all. I also taught in a Muslim school and can tell you about the Trinity thing from both religions. From the Muslim point of view/belief, there is no Trinity because (as it was explained to me in 1997) God would not divide himself up three ways and God would not condescend to send himself to live on earth (in the form of his son). 

So if you take that definition and come at it from a conservative Christian view, you can't be worshiping the same God because the Muslim God wouldn't be a three in one and a Christian God is based on the three in one.

Not that I agree with this but that is the explanation for it.  So when this woman said "we worship the same God"--the higher ups at Wheaton were all up in arms that she might be throwing out the Trinity with that statement.

However, if you go back in your Biblical old testament history, both Muslim and Christian faiths descend from Abraham who worshiped God and therefore, we do worship the same God. 

Clear as mud, right?

[PennySycamore]

18 minutes ago, FaithAndReason said:

So I grew up in a liberal Chirstian home in Wheaton and this isn't surprising at all. I also taught in a Muslim school and can tell you about the Trinity thing from both religions. From the Muslim point of view/belief, there is no Trinity because (as it was explained to me in 1997) God would not divide himself up three ways and God would not condescend to send himself to live on earth (in the form of his son). 

So if you take that definition and come at it from a conservative Christian view, you can't be worshiping the same God because the Muslim God wouldn't be a three in one and a Christian God is based on the three in one.

Not that I agree with this but that is the explanation for it.  So when this woman said "we worship the same God"--the higher ups at Wheaton were all up in arms that she might be throwing out the Trinity with that statement.

However, if you go back in your Biblical old testament history, both Muslim and Christian faiths descend from Abraham who worshiped God and therefore, we do worship the same God. 

Clear as mud, right?

To me, it seems that if you want to think the Islamic view of God means that Muslims aren't worshipping the same God that Christians do, but that Jews somehow are, then your faith doesn't make a damn bit of sense. 

[Flyinthesoup]

19 minutes ago, FaithAndReason said:

However, if you go back in your Biblical old testament history, both Muslim and Christian faiths descend from Abraham who worshiped God and therefore, we do worship the same God. 

Clear as mud, right?

This is how I understand it.  I was a bit shocked when I read the title of this thread.  

[2manyKidzzz]

Has anyone "come back" to  let us know this stuff about God? 

[docmom]

Personally I think the argument has very little to do with actual faith in god and everything to do with Muslims being the enemy du jour (it used to be the Jews and will likely be something else next century) and Christians needing therefore to be different.  If we worship the same god then we're not speshul...

[Eater of Worlds]

2 hours ago, samira_catlover said:

I am WAYYYYY totally hoping the professorial union comes in on this.

EXCUSE ME: I am wanting to wear out a hijab my UU fellows will probs not mind)-----

but damnitall: what I wear (assuming street-legal) REALLY should nor matter.

 

I read this op-ed about not wearing the hijab in solidarity and they make some really good points.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/12/21/as-muslim-women-we-actually-ask-you-not-to-wear-the-hijab-in-the-name-of-interfaith-solidarity/

 

One of the authors had a bit on NPR about it.  She said this and it really hit home about how wearing it in solidarity isn't doing what people think it is.  "And what we caution well-intentioned Americans and others to think about is whether the scarf matches their own values related to issues of honor and shame." http://www.npr.org/2015/12/22/460729859/the-case-against-wearing-hijab-to-support-muslim-women

 

Apologies about the dfferent sized lettering, I don't have a way to change the size in this box.

 

 

Just now, Eater of Worlds said:

I read this op-ed about not wearing the hijab in solidarity and they make some really good points.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/12/21/as-muslim-women-we-actually-ask-you-not-to-wear-the-hijab-in-the-name-of-interfaith-solidarity/

 

One of the authors had a bit on NPR about it.  She said this and it really hit home about how wearing it in solidarity isn't doing what people think it is.  "And what we caution well-intentioned Americans and others to think about is whether the scarf matches their own values related to issues of honor and shame." http://www.npr.org/2015/12/22/460729859/the-case-against-wearing-hijab-to-support-muslim-women

 

Apologies about the dfferent sized lettering, I don't have a way to change the size in this box.

The whole Wheaton campus has an odd feel to it.  About 10 years ago we were there to visit the Narnia wardrobe.  This was before I was following fundie stuff.  You just felt like you were...being watched, I guess you could say.  Judged or something like that.

 

 

 

[Cleopatra7]

24 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

To me, it seems that if you want to think the Islamic view of God means that Muslims aren't worshipping the same God that Christians do, but that Jews somehow are, then your faith doesn't make a damn bit of sense. 

I agree, but would go even farther and say that the conception of god is very different even between Catholics and Protestants, and between individual Christians. Does God want priests or ministers? Is Mary just some random woman who happened to give birth to Jesus, a saint worthy of veneration, or the Co-Redemptress? Does God wanted churches with stained glass windows or does he want plain structures? Is the mass a hierarchical bloodless sacrifice or a communal meal about Jesus's life? Or does God hate the idea of the mass and favor hymn singing and lengthy preaching? The question of who God is and whether he was a god of Catholicism or a god of Protestant led to decades of war and bloodshed in Europe. Right here in the US, people were killed over what Bible translation should be read in the public schools (google the Philadelphia Bible Riots). This all leads me to believe "god" is a psychological projection of whatever the believer's greatest hopes and aspirations are, which explains why "god" differs so greatly from person to person.

[EmCatlyn]

4 hours ago, libriatrix said:

Coming from an evangelical background, I can see some justification for them firing her: if a requirement of being on the faculty is to sign a confession of Christian faith, her statement seems to deny the Trinity and therefore contradict the confession she's required to hold to in order to teach there. Said this to the bf and he said that's why Christian colleges shouldn't exist and I kind of agree. It's pretty horrible to have your job depend on your faith: If you come to believe something different about some of the things evangelical colleges will require you to attest to, including non-salvific doctrine like 6-day creation and premillenialism then ta-da! You have a choice between dishonesty or losing your job and a lot of your chances of being hired anywhere else. 

As someone whose application for a job at a "Christian" university was not even accepted because I was not a member of the denomination, I can attest that religious schools that don't receive government funds can discriminate against people whose religious views are different.  As a tenured professor at a state university (where my right to wear a hijab and interrupt classes to pray towards Mecca would be protected) I can attest that  one way tenured faculty can be fired almost anywhere is to violate the codes and principles of the institution.  If this professor signed a paper saying she will not express religious views or engage in behavior inconsistent with the school's religious identification, the school may have the right to fire her.

That being said, I bet that she did this precisely to get a reaction from the school and to challenge their right to fire her for this reason.  We can expect a law suit.  

.

 

[Cleopatra7]

Fred Clarkson, who blogs at Patheos Progressive Christianity, has some good commentary on the racial politics of this situation:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2016/01/07/wheaton-college-moves-closer-to-its-goal-of-an-all-white-faculty/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2015/12/23/more-voices-on-wheatons-white-gospel/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2015/12/22/please-be-impotently-polite-in-responding-to-our-uncivil-abuse-of-power/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2015/12/23/tribune-report-contradicts-wheatons-sanctimonious-official-story/

[OldFadedStar]

I'm a relatively strong christian and I've had thoughts if Muslims and Christians worship the same god but someone got it wrong in translation.

[Terrie]

IIRC, Wheaton is the college that only recently started allowing professors to drink in the privacy of their own home, so....

[FaithAndReason]

1 hour ago, Terrie said:

IIRC, Wheaton is the college that only recently started allowing professors to drink in the privacy of their own home, so....

Not sure about recent changes since I no longer live there. The rule was no drinking, no smoking, no dancing at Wheaton. The town itself was "dry" until 1986 or so.

[Mercer]

A relative of mine is a Wheaton alum and is very upset about this, not just because of the present situation but because he says that this professor is one of the strongest advocates and best supports for students of color and LGBTQ students at the school. He's concerned that if she's dismissed, these students will have even fewer resources to turn to and may be even more marginalized on campus.

[Toothfairy]

Ducks because I thought wheaten was a good school