Florida Church Sends $1,000 ‘Delinquency Notice’

[rezski44]

Members of my family were starting a new Reform Jewish congregation in a suburb of a large city. They were informed by the old congregation that they had a legal responsibility to fulfill the monetary pledge amount for the coming year. They were of the opinion that it was voluntary. (Members who didn't pay up couldn't get tickets for the High Holy Days either.) I thought that was a crock and it was one of many reasons I went in an entirely different religious direction as an adult.

[Bethella]

We get a box of envelopes at the beginning of each year. They have a number on them rather than our name or address so that the people who handle the offering after masses are not able to look at names to see who is giving. It is kept track of solely for tax purposes; only the parish office staff has access to that information. And there are no "pledges"; each family/couple/individual just gets the box of envelopes to do with as they choose.

In RCIA, we were told that tithing by percentages is not a requirement in Catholicism but parish members are expected to give of their "time, talent or treasure" and whether it is one or all three is up to each person. We don't give much money. We do teach confirmation class to 7th/8th graders, though, and dealing with that age group should more than make up for the cash we do not give!

My church also uses the envelopes too, although as of last year we now also have a paypal/direct deposit option and you can always just put cash/change in the collection plate, it just won't be included in your year end tax report.

[Jana814]

Thanks to everyone for giving the info about tithing & churches. I always wondered, I honestly thought most gave if they wanted to.

[FundieFarmer]

My church also uses the envelopes too, although as of last year we now also have a paypal/direct deposit option and you can always just put cash/change in the collection plate, it just won't be included in your year end tax report.

Same. It's connected with the pledge you promised, if you promised one, but they don't come beating down your door if you're short.

[SoybeanQueen]

There are fees to cover the costs of the annulment tribunals.

Right, which in essence is the same thing as needing to pay to remain in good standing with the church. A woman who had left an abusive marriage was required to pay in order to have a "legitimate" second marriage.

[bingbangboom]

I grew up in a church family family should not be hounding you down for money...

[J'Lurker]

This is outrageous. That church and the more fortunate members of the church community should be offering this single mother aid, not hounding her for money she doesn't have in exchange for her eternal salvation. Perhaps they even think she SHOULD pay more, because she has to make amends for the sins she's previously committed (I mean, she's a single mother, clearly she's borderline heathen). [Probably not but I wouldn't put it past them, because this whole thing is disgusting. Why is it that so many people use religion as an excuse to be humongous hypocrites?]

I am not a church member, but as a child I regularly attended. I guess it was a good church: it ran its own food bank, so when church members hit hard times they could find help right at the church. They had Christmas and Easter baskets for less fortunate families, complete with small gifts, turkeys, and gift certificates (this was before gift cards!!) to local supermarkets for fresh produce. And they still managed to renovate the building and grounds, and keep the multiple priests paid and housed. It wasn't in a wealthy area, nor in a big town. I'm not sure why I didn't realize other churches didn't offer similar services.

What's the point of a paying to belong to a church community if there is no community? Basically, I guess what I'm getting at is that Jesus encouraged the helping of the poor. I don't think he would appreciate holding someone's soul ransom for tithing. And it makes me sad.

[Hane]

There are fees to cover the costs of the annulment tribunals. An annulment from the Church is a different matter based on different criteria than a legal divorce. It is not merely a statement that a divorce is legitimate. Divorce is a legal matter while an annulment concerns the validity of the marriage as a sacrament at the time it took place. An annulment tribunal would not be considering the divorce itself. Any communication with the ex-husband was likely a request for his testimony about his state of mind or intentions at the time of the couple's wedding, not a permission slip.

There has been some recent discussion within the Church including at the Vatican level and by the Pope himself about the high fees for annulments causing people to be unable to obtain them. In some areas, the cost has been into the $1000s. In light of these new discussions, policies are slowly changing. A quick google search shows that dioceses in Pittsburgh and Cleveland have eliminated all fees and a few others have dropped them to very low amounts.

Thanks, louisa05. That was my experience. The granting of an annulment is NOT contingent on the payment of a fee. I got my annulment by letter along with a request for a voluntary contribution of $400 to cover costs. My second ex got his annulment and never bothered to pay a penny, because he was a dick.

[MamaJunebug]

Soybean Queen, what denomination charged for membership classes? I've never heard of that being the case in Christianity.

Just recently saw where one of two neat progressive synagogues locally charges for an inquirer's class, but the other one, TTBOMK, doesn't charge. Also just recently learned that prospective converts to Judaism pay for pre-membership instruction. Which is fine. I'd just never heard of that being the case elsewhere.

Thanks and no negativity meant, hope I didn't come across that way.

[syntex72]

Duh "God is broke, the well went dry payup while you can or you'll end up in hell!" (punk song by DRI called god is broke.)

[SoybeanQueen]

Soybean Queen, what denomination charged for membership classes? I've never heard of that being the case in Christianity.

Thanks and no negativity meant, hope I didn't come across that way.

No negativity taken. I'll ask one of the people I know who encountered it. I'm pretty sure it was a Christian or offshoot church in that case. My husband and I are generic Christian, and we've attended a variety of churches over the years. I wouldn't say it's typical.

Regardless, I hate that sort of thing. It's manipulating the congregants by making them think they have to spend money to be on good terms with God through the church. For one thing, I don't even believe we need a church as a middle man, but adding financial requirements seems particularly evil to me.

On the topic of the offering plate, it's still perfectly fine in the churches I've been to in the past 5 years to just toss some cash in. Some offered an envelope or a pledge card for members, but that wasn't a requirement. We've never committed to a certain amount at any church and have never been asked. I would probably not go back if I felt like my wallet was the most important part of my attendance.

[Toothfairy]

Greedy ass churches. Churches are a business. Wtf is jesus going to do with 1000?

[doggie]

Greedy ass churches. Churches are a business. Wtf is jesus going to do with 1000?

buy new cars or helicopters or planes or mansions

[FormerlyFundyLite]

I'm completely baffled by this. Even though I, personally, veered into fundydom for a while, I've always attended either a basic local community church or an EFCA church--never anything blatantly fundy about any of the congregations I attended. Nobody has ever bothered me (or my parents) for our tithe. I guess there's envelopes in the "Bible pocket" of the pew (or chair), but nobody actually used them unless they were visiting and wanted to fill out the visitor info. The plate was passed, and whoever was giving that week would put their gift in. The only way that the church would know who gave was if you gave your gift in check form (which I do--easier, and more secure than putting in a wad of cash, plus the tax break). The only time I ever had to pay for enrichment-type classes was to cover the cost of the study materials--which the students are allowed to keep.

[louisa05]

Right, which in essence is the same thing as needing to pay to remain in good standing with the church. A woman who had left an abusive marriage was required to pay in order to have a "legitimate" second marriage.

And the Church is addressing this at the highest level with much pressure coming straight from the pope to drastically lower or eliminate these fees. Some places are already doing so and the rest may be forced to do so if that matter is directly addressed at the Synod this fall. Additionally, the requirement for an annulment or the criteria for them is going to be discussed. Things are changing whether that fits your "evil Catholics" narrative or not.

[DGayle]

//snip//Any communication with the ex-husband was likely a request for his testimony about his state of mind or intentions at the time of the couple's wedding, not a permission slip. //snip//

If Soy's friend is safe in her life as it was when she wanted to remarry, then contacting the abusive ex-husband would give him the power to fuck up her life after she's paid a lot of money, as well as could stir up the hornet's nest and make him try to damage her life in other ways in revenge.

[47of74]

Something the Catholic Church my Grandma attended used to do many years ago was to send out a list to all the parishioners listing each of the families in the parish and how much they gave over the previous year. Some people didn't care, others thought it wasn't the business of other parishioners on how much they gave. They don't do that nowadays, they do send out statements for each of the members so they can claim the tax deduction.

With the church I go to now I send in a certain amount each month - something that I feel comfortable sending in. I filled out a pledge card and lowballed the amount I said I'd give in case I had problems this year.