Florida Church Sends $1,000 ‘Delinquency Notice’

[DowntownAbbey]

I attend a Southern Baptist Church, and every Sunday when it's time to pass the collection plates, the pastor emphasizes several times that any offering is absolutely voluntary. That there is NO obligation whatsoever, to put anything in that plate; "giving back to The Lord" is according to what is in your heart and your ability. Yes, there are a couple of times each year that pledges are requested, but they are for certain mission organizations, or the Benevolent Fund (for needy members), not the church we are attending. We would never receive a bill of any kind.

editing... I looked at that church's Facebook page. It's a "Primitive Baptist Church", not associated with the SBC. Primitive Baptist Churches apparently do things a bit differently.

Yeah, SBCs aren't that pushy on tithing. I grew up in an SBC and was an irregular tither. I'd put the money aside and then forget for months to actually bring it in. The most "controlling" thing I ever encountered was the fact that I had to send a formal letter once I didn't want to be a member anymore. Though, the only reason I even bothered with that was so that they'd stop sending me the tithe envelopes.

I looked up Primitive Baptist Churches because all I could think of was that they use the Cave Drawings translation of the Bible... So, they're basically all about no instruments in worship, no Sunday School because parental authority, no seminary because that's not Biblical, and foot washing because that is Biblical.

[Geechee Girl]

Has this letter been authenticated? It smells fishy to me.

[Hane]

It's tough all over. My daughter and her husband didn't join the UU church where their baby was dedicated because there's a minimum $250/month contribution if you want to be a voting member. It's a fairly affluent congregation, and the minister was paid $75,000 a year at the time.

My UU church is small--about 100 members--and membership requires no pledge or contribution. Earlier this year, when I told the pledge chair that I didn't feel comfortable renewing my pledge because I might be moving this year, it seemed that she and the minister cared more about the fact that I might be leaving than the loss of the money.

[DGayle]

Has this letter been authenticated? It smells fishy to me.

Go to the church's Facebook page. Members of the church are defending the fees. I think it's real.

[FundieFarmer]

Go to the church's Facebook page. Members of the church are defending the fees. I think it's real.

Holy Moses. I've never heard of a church requiring donations or pledges, let alone defending it or collecting 1040s!

[DarkAnts]

Jesus once pointed to a women in the temple. She gave little bit it was all she could afford. Jesus commended her for giving all that she had. This passage reminds me that I can give more. I can give money and help Putin the community. I don't know if I am 100% Christian but I know every little bit counts. Give what you can, if your church needs more then say fuck you and find a better community to belong to.

[DeFrauder]

.abcactionnews.com/news/hillsborough-regional-news/church-members-complain-about-collection-notices

I think that I need an aspirin or something.

[DGayle]

Holy Moses. I've never heard of a church requiring donations or pledges, let alone defending it or collecting 1040s!

I've heard of mandating fees and tithes, and even selling tickets to get in, but never a collections notice like this.

The comments on the Facebook page are a lot of awful. All the members who post support it.

[DGayle]

Talking about this here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26556

[Jana814]

My UU church is small--about 100 members--and membership requires no pledge or contribution. Earlier this year, when I told the pledge chair that I didn't feel comfortable renewing my pledge because I might be moving this year, it seemed that she and the minister cared more about the fact that I might be leaving than the loss of the money.

That's really nice that they cared more about u leaving.

[Jana814]

Go to the church's Facebook page. Members of the church are defending the fees. I think it's real.

I saw the page I think it's real also.

[polecat]

nothing like a pay to pray church

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/07/15 ... agesvideo/

So in reality, this church is a social club with membership fees. Not a tax exempt non-profit religious organization.

[crawfishgirl]

Many years ago as a teenager, I had a close friend whose family was devoutly Baptist, and her father was a deacon in their church. I was at their house one day when a person from their church visited the parents. My friend told me that every year, people from the church visit each of the congregants to discuss their incomes and what they would be tithing to the church that year. I remember feeling very surprised. I realize that churches can be expensive to run - rent, utilities, insurance, supplies, salaries, etc. - but it seems that some tactics are too heavy-handed.

[gustava]

Anyone else amused that a "Primitive" church uses the internet??

[louisa05]

This is ridiculous. Donations to churches should be because you want to/ can donate, not billed or required to keep being a member. I attend a Catholic church in a wealthier area. My husband and I can only afford to give $20 a month right now and we have never, ever been harassed about it like this letter. We were not billed for the months we just could not make a donation. Occasionally we do receive letters from our church asking if we could give more, but if not, they get it.

We give our Catholic parish $5-10 a week. There have been times that we have given nothing because we didn't have it. No one ever harassed us. Our parish keeps track, but our priest steadfastly refuses to look at those records (not all priests are like that, I know...we won't talk about the one I worked for...). We also get letters like the ones you reference, but they are form letters sent to all members, not individual letters. Typically, they are because there are needs in the parish that additional funds are being raised for, too. Repairing hail damage from our storm a year ago cost some money above and beyond insurance for the church, religious ed building, and charity shop/food bank, for example. Or the letters are to remind people to participate in a particular fundraiser if possible and sometimes suggest that if you can't, you could donate anyway.

[DGayle]

Many years ago as a teenager, I had a close friend whose family was devoutly Baptist, and her father was a deacon in their church. I was at their house one day when a person from their church visited the parents. My friend told me that every year, people from the church visit each of the congregants to discuss their incomes and what they would be tithing to the church that year. I remember feeling very surprised. I realize that churches can be expensive to run - rent, utilities, insurance, supplies, salaries, etc. - but it seems that some tactics are too heavy-handed.

That's so wrong. I feel bad for the people backed into a corner to commit, then have a pressing situation come up and have to choose between taking care of it, or giving the money to a church.

[DGayle]

How do churches generally keep track of tithes? When I was a Christian and went to church, there was usually either a collection basket that went around, or collection boxes, sometimes both, and people usually gave cash without envelopes for names.

[FundieFarmer]

How do churches generally keep track of tithes? When I was a Christian and went to church, there was usually either a collection basket that went around, or collection boxes, sometimes both, and people usually gave cash without envelopes for names.

I've always gone to larger urban churches, and typically what happens is that people promise their annual pledge at the beginning of the year, and that's what they use to plan the budget. They factor in endowments, grants, etc. if they have big public programs that get funding. Then, after collection on Sunday, they tally it up comparatively to the budget, so they know each week where they are. A lot of it is also done electronically now for people who have automatic deposits. Then they publish where they are in the bulletin every week so that people know where we stand with the budget and giving. It's usually pretty interesting to watch it fluctuate through the year.

[SoybeanQueen]

That whole story is so wrong. Other churches don't require donations to attend, but you need to pay for lessons to learn about the church and doctrine, which is required to formally become a member. That's really pay to attend too, at its heart.

I have a friend who had to leave the Catholic church because in order to remarry she was required to pay for annulment of her first marriage (which was already legally dissolved, so essentially the church wanted her to pay for them to say she was allowed to remarry) AND they wanted to send a letter to her abusive ex-husband to get his permission for her to marry because they had children together.

That's not the behavior of a non-profit dedicated to helping people, either. She left and had a lovely wedding at a lake with a non-denominational officiant, because she shouldn't have to pay to have someone say her divorce was legitimate, and because there was no way she was alerting her ex to her current life.

[louisa05]

That whole story is so wrong. Other churches don't require donations to attend, but you need to pay for lessons to learn about the church and doctrine, which is required to formally become a member. That's really pay to attend too, at its heart.

I have a friend who had to leave the Catholic church because in order to remarry she was required to pay for annulment of her first marriage (which was already legally dissolved, so essentially the church wanted her to pay for them to say she was allowed to remarry) AND they wanted to send a letter to her abusive ex-husband to get his permission for her to marry because they had children together.

That's not the behavior of a non-profit dedicated to helping people, either. She left and had a lovely wedding at a lake with a non-denominational officiant, because she shouldn't have to pay to have someone say her divorce was legitimate, and because there was no way she was alerting her ex to her current life.

There are fees to cover the costs of the annulment tribunals. An annulment from the Church is a different matter based on different criteria than a legal divorce. It is not merely a statement that a divorce is legitimate. Divorce is a legal matter while an annulment concerns the validity of the marriage as a sacrament at the time it took place. An annulment tribunal would not be considering the divorce itself. Any communication with the ex-husband was likely a request for his testimony about his state of mind or intentions at the time of the couple's wedding, not a permission slip.

There has been some recent discussion within the Church including at the Vatican level and by the Pope himself about the high fees for annulments causing people to be unable to obtain them. In some areas, the cost has been into the $1000s. In light of these new discussions, policies are slowly changing. A quick google search shows that dioceses in Pittsburgh and Cleveland have eliminated all fees and a few others have dropped them to very low amounts.

[DGayle]

I've always gone to larger urban churches, and typically what happens is that people promise their annual pledge at the beginning of the year, and that's what they use to plan the budget. They factor in endowments, grants, etc. if they have big public programs that get funding. Then, after collection on Sunday, they tally it up comparatively to the budget, so they know each week where they are. A lot of it is also done electronically now for people who have automatic deposits. Then they publish where they are in the bulletin every week so that people know where we stand with the budget and giving. It's usually pretty interesting to watch it fluctuate through the year.

I mean keep track of who tithes how much, since it sounds like a lot of churches force people to tithe. How do they know who really is?

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I had no idea churches were out this way

I thought people just gave a bit of money at the collection on Sunday and no one knew how much

I thought people just gave a bit of money at the collection on Sunday and no one knew how much

I am blown away that this is common

[DowntownAbbey]

I mean keep track of who tithes how much, since it sounds like a lot of churches force people to tithe. How do they know who really is?

My best guess is that they'd use tithe envelopes. I was sent 4 packages a year with 3 months work of envelopes when I was attending a SBC. It came preprinted with my name and address. There were always blank ones in the pews where you could fill out your information if you didn't have a preprinted one.

Of course, my church only used it for numerical data (how many people tithed, how much) and to send us an end of year report for tax purposes.

[louisa05]

My best guess is that they'd use tithe envelopes. I was sent 4 packages a year with 3 months work of envelopes when I was attending a SBC. It came preprinted with my name and address. There were always blank ones in the pews where you could fill out your information if you didn't have a preprinted one.

Of course, my church only used it for numerical data (how many people tithed, how much) and to send us an end of year report for tax purposes.

We get a box of envelopes at the beginning of each year. They have a number on them rather than our name or address so that the people who handle the offering after masses are not able to look at names to see who is giving. It is kept track of solely for tax purposes; only the parish office staff has access to that information. And there are no "pledges"; each family/couple/individual just gets the box of envelopes to do with as they choose.

In RCIA, we were told that tithing by percentages is not a requirement in Catholicism but parish members are expected to give of their "time, talent or treasure" and whether it is one or all three is up to each person. We don't give much money. We do teach confirmation class to 7th/8th graders, though, and dealing with that age group should more than make up for the cash we do not give!

[Geechee Girl]

DA, our SBC worked in a similar fashion. In addition, on the pre-printed envelopes, there were check boxes for tithes, building fund, education (VBS, bible study, Sunday school), love offerings, and misc. At the quarterly meetings, accounting was made public to members. The church body allocate the misc. funds by vote.