Voddie Baucham children marrying

[auntdoc]

I've been reading abt the vision forum camp and its adherents for hours tonight. Since Voddie Bachman is black how did he get in this movement and will his children find mates among other vision forum people since many of the books vision forum sells are anti any other skin color than white? This may have been discussed already, I'm pretty new to the forum.

[Letgo]

The name is Baucham, not Bachman. :) I immediately thought of Michelle Bachmann when I read the title of your post.

I don't know how Voddie got started, but he did not become a Christian until college. VF is very white, but Voddie and the VF people share the same beliefs. They are very much into the familiy integrated church concept and Biblical manhood and womanhood-or at least their version of what men and women should be. I think I remember that his daughter did mention something about the difficulty of finding a Christian man of color who could be husband material. I think getting past Voddie and gaining his approval is the difficult part, regardless of skin color.

[maybeizfundie]

I thought Michelle Bachman too. lol

IMO, VF is not mostly white by deliberate exclusion. I think it is because of the demographics of their main target groups. But I am starting to see more diversity in that crowd, and the homeschooling world in general is much less white-country-bumpkin than it was 20 years ago.

Jasmine may well end up marrying across racial lines. Because at the moment, there just aren't a whole lot of folks in African American churches whose beliefs line up with the Baucham's on enough points to make a suitor acceptable to Voddie.

[Patsy]

I don't see any evidence that the VF crowd would believe any of the arguments put forward for religious division of race (and the maintenance of those divisions). So I'm not sure there would be any doctrinal reason that the Baucham children couldn't find suitors.

maybeizfundie, do you think Voddie would have a reason to exclude non-AA suitors?

[maybeizfundie]

Shoot, I totally misread your question. :oops: Wrote a whole book, answering a completely different question.

No, I don't think Baucham would exclude non-AA suitors at all. Actually, I think he's very much for more integration within the church and totally OK with cross-racial marriage--he had a sermon series on it that I ran across.

[notsocommon]

The question is not 'would Voddie accept a non AA suitor?" it is "Would a non AA suitor look at an AA person?"

Fundies are notoriously racist pricks.

[maybeizfundie]

Not all though. And if they have a problem with interracial marriage, they're going to have a bigger problem as all those adopted non-white children grow up and start looking for a spouse.

Transcript of Voddie's sermon "Table of Nations", for those interested: http://media.sermonaudio.com/mediapdf/525091133123.pdf

On interracial marriage:

I have people a lot asking me a lot how I feel about interracial marriage or interracial

adoption. To which, again, I respond: No, I do not believe in interracial marriage.

Absolutely, not. I am against interracial marriage. My children may only marry humans.

Amen. That is all. Don’t you bring a non human into my house trying to get my blessing

to go and get married. All right? There is but one race and one race only.

Kind of overstating it a little, but trying to make the point that he doesn't believe there are seperate races who should remain seperate, and that "race" is a social construct. Soooo....pretty sure he'd be OK with his kids marrying non-AA people.

Looks like Doug/VF has an opinion too: http://www.visionforumDOTcom/news/blogs ... 9/04/5035/ Of course he has to wrap it up by digging into politics, but it seems that at least in theory he agrees with Voddie Baucham.

[debrand]

Not all though. And if they have a problem with interracial marriage, they're going to have a bigger problem as all those adopted non-white children grow up and start looking for a spouse.

Transcript of Voddie's sermon "Table of Nations", for those interested: http://media.sermonaudio.com/mediapdf/525091133123.pdf

On interracial marriage:

Kind of overstating it a little, but trying to make the point that he doesn't believe there are seperate races who should remain seperate, and that "race" is a social construct. Soooo....pretty sure he'd be OK with his kids marrying non-AA people.

Looks like Doug/VF has an opinion too: http://www.visionforumDOTcom/news/blogs ... 9/04/5035/ Of course he has to wrap it up by digging into politics, but it seems that at least in theory he agrees with Voddie Baucham.

Although I took out the dot and replaced it with a period, I can not get the bottom link to work. Can you try to break it a different way?

[maybeizfundie]

Dang it, I keep misreading. :roll:

http://www.visionforum.com /news/blogs/doug/2009/04/5035/ (remove the space after "com".

[Austin]

In the future, you can just remove the http:// to break a link. This allows people viewing on phones or ipads to get to the site much more easily.

No reason to type "DOT" or add spaces.

[demgirl]

I know that they say interracial marriage is okay for the VF crowd. But. Has anyone actually ever seen a picture of an interracial couple at a VF event? On a VF affiliated blog? In catalog pictures even? Among ANY of our bloggers who are even loosely affiliated with VF?

[maybeizfundie]

Thanks Austin. I'll remember that for next time. :)

I personally know one interracial family connected with VF, though they aren't high up or in public. No blog though.

Also, I don't think the pool of suitable suitors is necessarily limited to *just* VF. Not everybody who would line up with Voddie in terms of beliefs is necessarily a VF adherant.

[raineymott]

(Just a side note...I didn't know Michelle Bachman and Voddie Baucham had different last names...I thought she was his wife and wondered how the hell that happened o.O Lol)

[acheronbeach]

I know that they say interracial marriage is okay for the VF crowd. But. Has anyone actually ever seen a picture of an interracial couple at a VF event? On a VF affiliated blog? In catalog pictures even? Among ANY of our bloggers who are even loosely affiliated with VF?

What about the Noor kids? Aren't they half white/half middle eastern? That's pretty far apart, culturally...

[bananacat]

Didn't Jasmine once lament that it would be especially difficult for her to find someone to court? Most fundies aren't overtly racist and probably even think of themselves as non-racist, but are racist in subtle ways and all their sons will just happen to find nice white fundie daughters to court, purely by coincidence I'm sure. A lot of people, even non-fundies will be sort of friends with people of different races but still won't even consider dating them. They'll come up with some excuse and go on believing that you're only racist if you wear a white hood and lynch black black people.

Jasmine mind find a suitable fundie boy to marry, but she has a lot going against her. Race certainly isn't the only factor or even the biggest one, but it's tough for a fundie girl out there, especially one with a famous daddy, and her race probably won't help.

[Austin]

I seem to recall that one of the accusations that the fundie homeschooling big dogs threw at Cheryl Lindsay Seelhoff is that she had not been "upfront" about her interracial marriage and suggested that her readership (of her homeschooling magazine) would be offended by such a revelation.

[Bookworm89]

Jasmine really will have a hard time not only to find someone in the VF circle that would court her but also passes Voddie's standards. There is a little diversity starting in VF but until it becomes much more prevalent, she has a very small chance of any courtship happening. Plus her family would lose the substitute mommy and main teacher in the family when she gets married. So another thing her dad will take into account when he allows a courtship to happen.

[maybeizfundie]

That is true about Seelhoff, but the homeschooling community (and the world) has changed a lot in 15+ years. Maybe not enough, but especially with international adoption seeming to become an "in thing", if people haven't yet changed their attitudes, they're going to have to.

[Lewis]

Baucham has made his mark in VF circles as the champion of the Family Integrated Church idea and movement. The fact that he's African-American works to VF's benefit in creating the shallow illusion that they actually are "inclusive" and not just promoting neo-conservative, WHITE Christian culture.

The interracial marriage thing was used by Sue Welch, among others, against Cheryl Lindsay Seelhoff - and I've no doubt that if the whole thing were going down for the first time TODAY rather than in the mid 90s, the same tactics would be used. Christian homeschooling is a racket, and all Welch and the rest of the mafiosos at the top wanted was Seelhoff's share of the marketplace. They didn't give a rat's ass about any moral aspect of it.

[Austin]

The interracial marriage thing was used by Sue Welch, among others, against Cheryl Lindsay Seelhoff - and I've no doubt that if the whole thing were going down for the first time TODAY rather than in the mid 90s, the same tactics would be used. Christian homeschooling is a racket, and all Welch and the rest of the mafiosos at the top wanted was Seelhoff's share of the marketplace. They didn't give a rat's ass about any moral aspect of it.

I've no doubt, either, Lewis.

Good to see you!

[auntdoc]

The reason I was surprised that the vision forum conferences had someone of color preach is that the books by g.a. henty and the elsie dinsmore are very biased against AA in particular but definitely all people of color.