Jill Duggar Dillard, Derick Dillard, & Baby Israel - Part 2

[Palimpsest]

In terms of the evils of a patriarchal society and the Duggars, how long can a conversation stay on that topic? Would new information continually come to light? Is there active research involved? It seems like the Duggar related conversation on FJ would have died long ago if comments stayed strictly within the confines of that topic. Yes, I think most can agree about the evils of certain concepts, including religions and cults, on various people, and most certainly youngsters whose minds are still developing.

I also think people need to realize that as the kids get older and reach the age of adulthood themselves, the topics discussed here are going to change, drastically. What is appropriate to say or discuss about Jill's life, behaviors and decisions is very different from what would be appropriate to discuss about Joy's life. I think once you're living outside the big house and have a family of your own, the decisions that you make can no longer be blamed on your parents...Otherwise, if it's wrong to be pointing at the negatives of Jill's choices and behaviors it would be equally as wrong to point out such about JB and M's decisions and behaviors. Are people willing to agree that last sentence???

In addition, Jill has received flack for some of her recent decisions because they had/have (in the case of the sling) the potential to harm another, dependent human being. So, Jill has become JB and M- the flack taker, and Izzy has taken Jill's position as the one who is to be protected. If you add on the fact that Jill certainly has the potential to be viewed as a role model for other fundie young mothers, then her decisions should certainly be discussed, especially if she is shown to be doing things that can be harmful or have horrible consequences. Jill does have a responsibility in that area.

To the bolded, Egad. I sometimes wish the Duggar conversations had died away long ago. I think the amount of internet chat about them is one of the things that is keeping them on TV. :lol:

I think it is good that an active discussion takes place here on the Duggar family. I don't participate over here much because the family, quite frankly, bores me. I'm Duggared out. I know if anything major happens I will be alerted threads posted by Duggar watchers over here who are not fed up to the back teeth with this family. The Duggar subforum also serves as a place where Duggar Show watchers new to Gothardism can learn about it. And have some fun snarking too.

I think that what people are reacting to is: an increasing level of facile and viciously unpleasant snark, which is not typical of FJ's board culture; an increasing amount of vigorous leghumping by those who don't know that we are not a fan site; and a level of nit-pickiness leading to sweeping and unfounded conclusions. I've been rolling my eyes a bit at some conversations.

Sense and Nonsense This may help clarify some things.

Some new posters (and possibly a troll) were getting out of control to the extent that Happy Atheist was forced to clarify what FJ is and is not. Here, in case anyone missed it.

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=25810

FJ is welcoming to new posters. Some members more than others. Members will also call each other out and have nasty squabbles over many topics and if you phrase something clumsily - watch out! Someone will come after you. We are actually much kinder than we used to be on that, and you will see references to not wanting to go back to the bad old days.

Yes, the older children are now open to criticism. However, just because they chose to put their lives on TV doesn't mean that it is a free fall all of hate. FJ has a very wide tolerance for snark but does have some standards over what is or is not acceptable here.

So from my perspective only because I do not speak for FJ: Pointing out that Jill is using the sling incorrectly is fine. As is discussing her decisions around birth. Or her religiosity. Or her dress sense. Saying she is pug-ugly (she isn't) because you don't like her nose is a cheap shot and makes me. :roll:

Excessive nit-picking and saying that she probably has PPD and will do an Andrea Yates because her hair looks messy and she looks tired. Not fine and will get you push-back from other posters. NOTE: AFAIK no-one said that it is just an illustration of my point!

This is not censorship. Nor is it resisting change for its own sake. It is trying to resist change in the wrong direction.

And as Happy Atheist also said in that announcement: We exist to discuss the damage caused by fundamentalists. There are plenty of other places to snark on the Duggars if people don't like the culture here.

[19 cats and counting]

I haven't been around FJ long enough (Jill and Jessa were both married when I joined) to know if she was a FJ favorite? To me, even from the early specials, Jill struck me as the biggest Kool-Aid drinker of the daughters. She seemed kind of ditzy (in a dumb blonde way, there was a comment about the ratio of boys/girls when they found out Jackson was a boy). As the show went on, her interests seemed to have fallen in line with the family (mission trips, making sure the kids learn Spanish, midwifery/birth, etc and she's naturally nurturing and maternal (like Michael Bates), so that makes her a fundie golden child. Hell she volunteered to be a sister mom at the age of 6 (which probably was the catalyst for the older children raising their younger siblings).

Watching the All About Jill episode, Josh made it clear that Jill was not afraid to throw her siblings under the bus in order to gain bonus points with her parents. She was a tattletale and it sounded like JB&M encouraged it (gotta keep those arrows in line). When it came to which house to give Jill (vs Jessa) it's clear who won the game there.

Do I think Jill (and all of the Duggars) have some redeeming qualities? Yes. (I tend to see the good in people--- the only fundies I can think of without any redeeming qualities are Steve Maxwell and Erkia Shupe). But I also grew up with the non fundie version of Jill as my sister, so I know exactly what it's like to have the perfect child in the house. Like she did to Jinger (big city, Walmart) my sister would constantly correct me if I wasn't saying/doing something that wasn't by my parents' book. She once yelled at me then told my parents that I was eating my Eggo waffles with fruit instead of syrup (the directions on the box said 'serve with syrup' and she went ballistic that I didn't follow directions). I can totally see Jill doing something like that.

[SassyPants]

CLIPPED

To the bolded, Egad. I sometimes wish the Duggar conversations had died away long ago. I think the amount of internet chat about them is one of the things that is keeping them on TV. :lol:

I think it is good that an active discussion takes place here on the Duggar family. I don't participate over here much because the family, quite frankly, bores me. I'm Duggared out. I know if anything major happens I will be alerted threads posted by Duggar watchers over here who are not fed up to the back teeth with this family. The Duggar subforum also serves as a place where Duggar Show watchers new to Gothardism can learn about it. And have some fun snarking too.

I think that what people are reacting to is: an increasing level of facile and viciously unpleasant snark, which is not typical of FJ's board culture; an increasing amount of vigorous leghumping by those who don't know that we are not a fan site; and a level of nit-pickiness leading to sweeping and unfounded conclusions. I've been rolling my eyes a bit at some conversations.

Sense and Nonsense This may help clarify some things.

Some new posters (and possibly a troll) were getting out of control to the extent that Happy Atheist was forced to clarify what FJ is and is not. Here, in case anyone missed it.

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=25810

FJ is welcoming to new posters. Some members more than others. Members will also call each other out and have nasty squabbles over many topics and if you phrase something clumsily - watch out! Someone will come after you. We are actually much kinder than we used to be on that, and you will see references to not wanting to go back to the bad old days.

Yes, the older children are now open to criticism. However, just because they chose to put their lives on TV doesn't mean that it is a free fall all of hate. FJ has a very wide tolerance for snark but does have some standards over what is or is not acceptable here.

So from my perspective only because I do not speak for FJ: Pointing out that Jill is using the sling incorrectly is fine. As is discussing her decisions around birth. Or her religiosity. Or her dress sense. Saying she is pug-ugly (she isn't) because you don't like her nose is a cheap shot and makes me. :roll:

Excessive nit-picking and saying that she probably has PPD and will do an Andrea Yates because her hair looks messy and she looks tired. Not fine and will get you push-back from other posters. NOTE: AFAIK no-one said that it is just an illustration of my point!

This is not censorship. Nor is it resisting change for its own sake. It is trying to resist change in the wrong direction.

And as Happy Atheist also said in that announcement: We exist to discuss the damage caused by fundamentalists. There are plenty of other places to snark on the Duggars if people don't like the culture here.

[Palimpsest]

I think many would agree that the show should end and the Duggars should move on to other ventures. Unfortunately, politics seems to be on their collective radars.

How do we discuss the damage caused without talking about the actual behaviors, decisions and what not evidenced, particularly when the damage is going to be most evident in the children?

It seems that what is desired on this board is just not realistically possible.

To the bolded: Where has anyone said you can't discuss those things? Serious question. Please direct me to where someone said that.

What I said was this - quoting myself:

I think that what people are reacting to is: an increasing level of facile and viciously unpleasant snark, which is not typical of FJ's board culture; an increasing amount of vigorous leghumping by those who don't know that we are not a fan site; and a level of nit-pickiness leading to sweeping and unfounded conclusions. I've been rolling my eyes a bit at some conversations.

People will get push back on all those things. And do. I would not want to change or stop the push back. Sweeping and unfounded conclusions drawn from brief video clips and photographs do get on my nerves.

I think a much harder question is: What is reasonable speculation and when does it go to far? That is very hard to define because we do allow a lot of speculation. I wouldn't want to make a "rule" about that.

It is a judgment issue. I think when it does go too far then other members will jump on it and majority wins. That has long been the culture at FJ and I think it is a good one.

I have to admit that I do get a bit pissed when newer members (not you) imply that I am trying to control the flow of conversation and limit debate when I try to point out the primary focus of this board. Our tagline is "Focused on the Flaws of Fundamentalism since 2005." It is not "Duggar Hatefest 'Cos They are on TeeVee" :lol:

ETA. Sorry for the threadjack everyone.

[mollysmom]

I'm sure to Jill, the whole birthing thing is all about her. So if Derick is nervous and needs to crack jokes? Well, too bad, Derick. It's not about you. It's pretty ridiculous.

I think it would be hard to have a very different sense of humor from your spouse.

Yeah, I personally thought that was ridiculous of her to say. Maybe that's how he deals with stressful situations! I know I do. I just had major surgery last week and I was a wreck, but that's how I dealt with it, I laughed and joked with the nurses and surgeon. It was either that or bawl my eyes out lol! Everyone deals with stressful things in their own way.

[SassyPants]

To the bolded: Where has anyone said you can't discuss those things? Serious question. Please direct me to where someone said that.

What I said was this - quoting myself:

People will get push back on all those things. And do. I would not want to change or stop the push back. Sweeping and unfounded conclusions drawn from brief video clips and photographs do get on my nerves.

I think a much harder question is: What is reasonable speculation and when does it go to far? That is very hard to define because we do allow a lot of speculation. I wouldn't want to make a "rule" about that.

It is a judgment issue. I think when it does go too far then other members will jump on it and majority wins. That has long been the culture at FJ and I think it is a good one.

I have to admit that I do get a bit pissed when newer members (not you) imply that I am trying to control the flow of conversation and limit debate when I try to point out the primary focus of this board. Our tagline is "Focused on the Flaws of Fundamentalism since 2005." It is not "Duggar Hatefest 'Cos They are on TeeVee" :lol:

ETA. Sorry for the threadjack everyone.

It's the reception of the comments that focus on behaviors or deficits: For eample, If it is mentioned that per Gothardism and supported by JB and M that a woman's role is in the home and to be supportive and available to her husband, and then many times Duggar adult females are shown having little to no skills "home" related, some are offended that others would make a comment about those lack of skills.

IMO, lack of skills is directly related to fundamentalism as a limited formal education is often supported/endorsed by those folks.

[OkToBeTakei]

My guess as to why many posters are frustrated by these threads in QFOD is that there used to be a lot of informed critique and discussion of the strictures of religious fundamentalism, patriarchy etc., and discussion of individuals was often within the context of that. Now, much of the time, it feels like straight up character assassinations - omg Jessa's stance is too wide/omg Jill is so frumpy and raises her eyebrows wrong - which often comes across as uninformed about the wider context of the Duggars' lives, and kind of dumbs down FJ's raison d'être. So I don't think it's a case of people disagreeing and not liking others' opinions on the Jill, J'Derick et al., in my opinion people are objecting to a losing of the bigger picture. It's not just about discussing fundies' lives as if they were any other celebrity you hate-follow, it's about seeing the damage fundamentalism can do.

Bang on!

Very polite as well :lol:

It's good to have it out there that not everybody is blindly nodding along with 2 or 3 posters little immature hate fest. Hate -follow.......that's what it is. Throw all the excuses you like but that is what it is. Not snark. Seems folks just don't like that being pointed out.

As to the idiotic question as to how long can it be possible to snark on the issues raised here....since like 2006 or something :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Lucy H]

They have no problem with piercing little girls' ears. Jordyn got hers pierced for her sixth birthday.

You are right, I forgotten that episode. It strikes me as odd because a little girl in shorts does not seem any less modest than a little girl with pierced ears. It doesn't make sense to me but then I'm not a Duggar.

[ClaraOswin]

Yeah, I personally thought that was ridiculous of her to say. Maybe that's how he deals with stressful situations! I know I do. I just had major surgery last week and I was a wreck, but that's how I dealt with it, I laughed and joked with the nurses and surgeon. It was either that or bawl my eyes out lol! Everyone deals with stressful things in their own way.

Yep. That is exactly my husband. He broke his arm last year and was in the ER in tons of pain but he was cracking jokes with the nurses because that's just how he deals with things.

[Ali]

I'm sorry if someone has already mentioned this, but WHAT IS WITH THE CONSTANT SWADDLING OF IZZY??? :angry-banghead:

I'm sorry, but the child looks so confined and uncomfortable at times, particuarly in her Mother's Day message to j'chelle. Let him wriggle and be free!!

#FreeIzzy :lol:

I don't know if this has been answered yet, but some newborns love to be swaddled. It helps them feel safe and it calms them. Mine loved to be swaddled. We did give her some time to be free from being swaddled, but she definitely preferred to be swaddled.

[karen77]

I don't know if this has been answered yet, but some newborns love to be swaddled. It helps them feel safe and it calms them. Mine loved to be swaddled. We did give her some time to be free from being swaddled, but she definitely preferred to be swaddled.

Swaddling perfectly normal, now if they are still doing that when he is 6 months, then, that might be odd, but he's only a month old.

[sense and nonsense]

To the bolded, Egad. I sometimes wish the Duggar conversations had died away long ago. I think the amount of internet chat about them is one of the things that is keeping them on TV. :lol:

I think it is good that an active discussion takes place here on the Duggar family. I don't participate over here much because the family, quite frankly, bores me. I'm Duggared out. I know if anything major happens I will be alerted threads posted by Duggar watchers over here who are not fed up to the back teeth with this family. The Duggar subforum also serves as a place where Duggar Show watchers new to Gothardism can learn about it. And have some fun snarking too.

I think that what people are reacting to is: an increasing level of facile and viciously unpleasant snark, which is not typical of FJ's board culture; an increasing amount of vigorous leghumping by those who don't know that we are not a fan site; and a level of nit-pickiness leading to sweeping and unfounded conclusions. I've been rolling my eyes a bit at some conversations.

Sense and Nonsense This may help clarify some things.

Some new posters (and possibly a troll) were getting out of control to the extent that Happy Atheist was forced to clarify what FJ is and is not. Here, in case anyone missed it.

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=25810

FJ is welcoming to new posters. Some members more than others. Members will also call each other out and have nasty squabbles over many topics and if you phrase something clumsily - watch out! Someone will come after you. We are actually much kinder than we used to be on that, and you will see references to not wanting to go back to the bad old days.

Yes, the older children are now open to criticism. However, just because they chose to put their lives on TV doesn't mean that it is a free fall all of hate. FJ has a very wide tolerance for snark but does have some standards over what is or is not acceptable here.

So from my perspective only because I do not speak for FJ: Pointing out that Jill is using the sling incorrectly is fine. As is discussing her decisions around birth. Or her religiosity. Or her dress sense. Saying she is pug-ugly (she isn't) because you don't like her nose is a cheap shot and makes me. :roll:

Excessive nit-picking and saying that she probably has PPD and will do an Andrea Yates because her hair looks messy and she looks tired. Not fine and will get you push-back from other posters. NOTE: AFAIK no-one said that it is just an illustration of my point!

This is not censorship. Nor is it resisting change for its own sake. It is trying to resist change in the wrong direction.

And as Happy Atheist also said in that announcement: We exist to discuss the damage caused by fundamentalists. There are plenty of other places to snark on the Duggars if people don't like the culture here.

I agree completely with HA, and as a new member I guess I'm still coming to an understanding of the culture here. Anyway, my final two cents about this issue.

As far as I remember, most comments about PPD were made with context to the fact that Jill's fundie upbringing led her to having high expectations from motherhood. Since children are a blessing that must be cherished, you must be happy about having your child every second, whether they are gurgling and happy or giving you a hard time at 3 AM.

Since you took up the example, I thought I'd add to it by saying that it seems to me that most posters are trying to analyze the Duggar's behaviour in context of their beliefs. Comments about appearance (such as the ones about Izzy and someone calling Marjorie a dog) are completely unacceptable and need to be shut down right then and there. There are limits to snark, but discussing Jill's labour or how she might be dealing with motherhood are not outside the limit IMO.

Honestly, I am yet to see a true conspiracy theory on this thread like the one you gave an example of (Jill turning into Andrea Yates). If I have missed something that you thought as obvious, please do direct me with a link (I say this genuinely, no snark or sarcasm because I feel like I have missed something when certain veteran members crib about this issue)

Can I just say, all things aside, the discussions on this thread are much much much much much better than stuff like 'Did Jana whiten her teeth' or 'Is Jessa high on hairspray fumes', and other such speculation that went on on the unnecessary Duggar threads that gave the mods a headache :D :cray-cray:

[Ali]

I know Jill probably has made many mistakes as a new mom. She should have never used the sling like she did and I am not making excuses for her. However, all new moms make mistakes. No matter what you do as a mom, someone is going to criticize you. All this criticism made me think of this video:

Mompetition has many other hilarious videos like this. It is hard being a mom and sometimes you just have to make what you think is the best choice.

[OkToBeTakei]

I agree completely with HA, and as a new member I guess I'm still coming to an understanding of the culture here. Anyway, my final two cents about this issue.

As far as I remember, most comments about PPD were made with context to the fact that Jill's fundie upbringing led her to having high expectations from motherhood. Since children are a blessing that must be cherished, you must be happy about having your child every second, whether they are gurgling and happy or giving you a hard time at 3 AM.

Since you took up the example, I thought I'd add to it by saying that it seems to me that most posters are trying to analyze the Duggar's behaviour in context of their beliefs. Comments about appearance (such as the ones about Izzy and someone calling Marjorie a dog) are completely unacceptable and need to be shut down right then and there. There are limits to snark, but discussing Jill's labour or how she might be dealing with motherhood are not outside the limit IMO.

Honestly, I am yet to see a true conspiracy theory on this thread like the one you gave an example of (Jill turning into Andrea Yates). If I have missed something that you thought as obvious, please do direct me with a link (I say this genuinely, no snark or sarcasm because I feel like I have missed something when certain veteran members crib about this issue)

Can I just say, all things aside, the discussions on this thread are much much much much much better than stuff like 'Did Jana whiten her teeth' or 'Is Jessa high on hairspray fumes', and other such speculation that went on on the unnecessary Duggar threads that gave the mods a headache :D :cray-cray:

What might help is if rather than presenting nit-picking and speculation as fact, it is presented as what it is.

Example I asked a perfectly innocent question many threads back regarding a fact being presented. The answer was the fact had been established on another thread by...you guessed it pages upon pages of speculation.

I like the speculation train or individual opinion just as much as the next snarker. To present it as fact based on x said y but y did not match x precisely therefore there's a w we are not being told about, so that means z is the truth..I tell you. It's fine, it's funny, but it's not fact.

That's where the problem is. If you read the board there are a hundred unfounded Duggar rumours that started that way. There was always people in those threads just like this one who said....Come on...!

I don't think it is a new versus old poster issue. I think it's just a few posters missing the tone. Getting called on it and not liking it. Not a huge issue really. Been happening for years.

[Palimpsest]

For the love of kittens point me to specific examples because I refuse to go back through lengthy Duggar threads to find them. :wink-kitty:

I agree with the bolded. I really haven't seen people getting "offended that others would make a comment about lack of those skills" but I have been skimming. I'd put someone getting really offended about a comment pointing to a lack of Duggar home-making skills (like Jill not being able to cook minute rice, ha!) into the minor leghumping overly defending the Duggars category and call it out as that. Politely.

[Firiel]

IMO, I haven't seen people get up-in-arms over comments that point out the irony that the Duggar girls are not all that great at things that fundamentalism seems to put value on (cooking, for example).

The comments I've seen people get up-in-arms over are the sexist/classist comments that contain absolutely no indication that the comment is being made ironically and that are supported at face value for pages.

[Palimpsest]

I agree completely with HA, and as a new member I guess I'm still coming to an understanding of the culture here. Anyway, my final two cents about this issue.

As far as I remember, most comments about PPD were made with context to the fact that Jill's fundie upbringing led her to having high expectations from motherhood. Since children are a blessing that must be cherished, you must be happy about having your child every second, whether they are gurgling and happy or giving you a hard time at 3 AM.

Since you took up the example, I thought I'd add to it by saying that it seems to me that most posters are trying to analyze the Duggar's behaviour in context of their beliefs. Comments about appearance (such as the ones about Izzy and someone calling Marjorie a dog) are completely unacceptable and need to be shut down right then and there. There are limits to snark, but discussing Jill's labour or how she might be dealing with motherhood are not outside the limit IMO.

Honestly, I am yet to see a true conspiracy theory on this thread like the one you gave an example of (Jill turning into Andrea Yates). If I have missed something that you thought as obvious, please do direct me with a link (I say this genuinely, no snark or sarcasm because I feel like I have missed something when certain veteran members crib about this issue)

Can I just say, all things aside, the discussions on this thread are much much much much much better than stuff like 'Did Jana whiten her teeth' or 'Is Jessa high on hairspray fumes', and other such speculation that went on on the unnecessary Duggar threads that gave the mods a headache :D :cray-cray:

I should know better than to make up an example out of thin air without backtracking on old threads. You weren't supposed to take the Jill/PPD/Andrea Yates thing literally. I thought I'd made it clear (see the bolded) that it was just a hypothetical example. So, no, I did not take up the example. I guess people were discussing PPD and I'll take your word for it that the discussion was within the context of Fundyism and perfectly fine. Nothing personal to those who were discussing PPD. :)

As OKTBT just explained, there have been many times on FJ where speculation morphed into "fact." The most recent example I can think of (and it is a tiny one) was on the John Maxwell thread. A discussion on whether he was in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Indonesia (or wherever the hell he was) suddenly turned into a member saying, "I thought we had proved he was in Bangladesh." Nope. The Maxwell's silly secret is still safe.

Some of us are getting more cautious about speculation because Radar One Line picked up on a piece of snark here fairly recently about a Duggar and reported it as "fact." I forget what it was. The point is that there are many real and important things to criticize the Duggars and their belief systems about without making things up. Wild speculation or misinformation turning into "fact" is destructive to FJ's reputation - to say nothing of being unnecessarily cruel. See "sin in the camp" in the Myths thread. That unfounded rumor has been around for years.

Yes, I agree with your last paragraph. Things were getting out of control. One of my concerns on the thread under HA's "announcement" was that nice newer posters would feel unwelcome while we disciplined a few not very nice people. It was an awkward couple of weeks. I also agree with OKTBT that this is not an old/new poster issue. This sort of thing has been going on for years.

[Palimpsest]

IMO, I haven't seen people get up-in-arms over comments that point out the irony that the Duggar girls are not all that great at things that fundamentalism seems to put value on (cooking, for example).

The comments I've seen people get up-in-arms over are the sexist/classist comments that contain absolutely no indication that the comment is being made ironically and that are supported at face value for pages.

Really? :(

[Firiel]

Really? :(

Sure. I see people saying we should cut the Duggar girls slack in other areas, but the two things that drew the most ire recently (that I've witnessed) have been World War Shoe/World War Shoe II and Jessa's inappropriate, unladylike wide-stance.

I could be wrong, of course. These stick out to me because they were the ones that annoyed me that most. That doesn't mean they were actually the least well-received comments in the past few months.

People have also defended Jill for not cooking during her first trimester and expressed gladness that Derick was opening supportive of that. In that case, people have said that she's lazy for not cooking because she was taught that was her only job (so, something that fundamentalism values), but that still seems pretty thinly veiled to me-- that kind of (small) break from gender roles gets the Paines TONS of FJ streed cred. For Jill, she's lazy. :shrug:

[Palimpsest]

Sure. I see people saying we should cut the Duggar girls slack in other areas, but the two things that drew the most ire recently (that I've witnessed) have been World War Shoe/World War Shoe II and Jessa's inappropriate, unladylike wide-stance.

I could be wrong, of course. These stick out to me because they were the ones that annoyed me that most. That doesn't mean they were actually the least well-received comments in the past few months.

People have also defended Jill for not cooking during her first trimester and expressed gladness that Derick was opening supportive of that. In that case, people have said that she's lazy for not cooking because she was taught that was her only job (so, something that fundamentalism values), but that still seems pretty thinly veiled to me-- that kind of (small) break from gender roles gets the Paines TONS of FJ streed cred. For Jill, she's lazy. :shrug:

All I can say is that I hope this thread jack has made a few people a lot more -- thoughtful. But then, I'm prone to being Pollyanna-ish.

[VelociRapture]

All I can say is that I hope this thread jack has made a few people a lot more -- thoughtful. But then, I'm prone to being Pollyanna-ish.

I hope so as well. And I hope that everyone involved in any discussion on here (myself included) does their best to avoid speaking in generalizations - it's led to a lot of miscommunication and hurt feelings on here, which only distracts from the larger topics. Hopefully we all realize that we can be snarky without being cruel and we can defend the various Fundies we discuss without being completely blinded to their disgusting beliefs.

[grandmadugger]

How many more days before Derick gets to have sexy time again?

[actuallyjessica]

How many more days before Derick gets to have sexy time again?

just 5 more days!

[withaj]

just 5 more days!

Ugh! Spring 2016 baby, here you come!

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I know Jill probably has made many mistakes as a new mom. She should have never used the sling like she did and I am not making excuses for her. However, all new moms make mistakes. No matter what you do as a mom, someone is going to criticize you. All this criticism made me think of this video:

Mompetition has many other hilarious videos like this. It is hard being a mom and sometimes you just have to make what you think is the best choice.

That reminds me of this commercial: http://youtu.be/Me9yrREXOj4