Jill Duggar Dillard, Derick Dillard, & Baby Israel - Part 2

[Lucy H]

Well I think that about exactly sums up the Jill hate.

If she talks at all about her own marriage / pregnancy / labor / childbirth / motherhood experience she's a smug know it all who actually knows nothing and is horribly irresponsible / lazy/ inexperienced/ stupid / reckless / attention whore.

But, of course any portion of her marriage / pregnancy/ labor / childbirth / motherhood experience that she doesn' t discuss in minute detail, with 100% recall of every moment is part of some huge cover- up / conspiracy / snow job / lie.

I can just imagine if some of the posters here had the same attitude in conversation with a new mom' they know in real life :lol:

Ms. Snoop : " Oh hey there Jill, so glad I ran in to you here at the supermarket, I haven't seen you since you had the baby! By the way are you aware you are an irresponsible idiot who is trying to kill that baby right now ? Look how you're wearing that sling - stupid girl. Here let me fix it for you. How could you be so dumb?

And my, let me get a look at that baby you almost just smothered --- Oh, dear, well , maybe he won't stay ugly. You might want to stop doing whatever stupid thing you're doing that's giving him baby acne though...it's super gross. "

Jill : " Oh, um, ok. Thanks for the tip on the baby sling Mrs. Snoop. there certainly is a lot to learn, I sure do love this little guy though!"

Mrs. Snoop : " Do you Jill? Do you? Because I was talking to your Aunt's cousins neighbor Wanda down at the Piggly Wiggly..she's an experienced health professional you know. Your Mama told her all about your labor and birth. It really sounds like you screwed that one up in every single possible way"

Jill: " Well it definitely was a very hard experience, and not at all what we expected. But ...gee..what did you hear? Mama can be kind of dramatic at times....."

Mrs. Snoop: "Well, first of all, you went in secret to see some weird secret practitioner chiro..chiro..chiropractor? Is that what it's called -- it's so " alternative" and out there that I'm sure I don't know what kind of witchcraft herby type nonsense he tried....probably just lucky it wasn't fatal - I hear those chi- ro- practitioners - grind up dead moms bones to make bread.

Of course, it's possible you just went there as a cover- up to see your disgraced midwife, who put oils up your hoo ha to get the baby to turn, since you knew it would be hard to have it in the stone circle in the woods by yourself if it was sidewise, inside out and upside down."

Jill : " oh, um, wow,.....a stone circle really wasn't part of my 1,000 page birth plan. Honest. "

Mrs. Snoop: " Honest? Oh honey, you don't know the meaning of the word! How is it honest to say you were in hard labor for 70 hours with 1 minute apart contractions the entire time, And that the baby turned at the last minute? That NEVER happens. I know because Wanda told me so. "

Jill: " oh, um, well, I never said the contractions were 1 minute apart the entire time. Goodness. And it was after I was at the hospital for awhile that the Dr. did an ultrasound and said he turned...so, I don't know what to say to that..."

Mrs. Snoop: " How could the Dr. figure that out when you refused to let him examine you? Huh? Got a smart mouth answer for that little missy? "

Jill : " But, but, that's just not true! Look I have a video right here on my phone....here' s me talking to the Dr...."

Mrs. Snoop: " Hmmmphh ...Clearly edited. Where are your videos of your internal exams? Where's the photo of this so called " faint" meconium staining? Proof or it's a lie! "

Jill: " okay, well, I kind of have to go now Mrs. Snoop. Izzy is getting kind of hungry, it's time to go nurse him"

Mrs. Snoop: " I see that you don't want to continue this discussion because you are caught in your web of deceit and your smug, Stonehenge style au natural birth turned out to be a massive and bitter disappointment -- just looking at you it's clear you are on the verge of a breakdown, you're such a mess. Poor thing. Nice chatting with you dear. You and that ugly baby run along now. Oh, and breastfeeding, I'm sure you're doing that wrong too. Bless your heart."

Jill: " Bless your heart too Mrs. Snoop"

All the Duggars including Jill, have chosen to put the details of their personal lives on television, in magazines, and on social media. It is how they make their livings and they are paid well for it. New mother I encounter in the supermarket has not made that choice.

If Jill and Derrick do not want the details of their lives open for public comment, they are free to stop making them public. No one is forcing them to participate in a two hour VSE about their childbirth experience.

They have made their lives paid entertainment for millions of people and I do find them entertaining. I don't feel the least of guilt for picking their parenting apart.

[SassyPants]

All the Duggars including Jill, have chosen to put the details of their personal lives on television, in magazines, and on social media. It is how they make their livings and they are paid well for it. New mother I encounter in the supermarket has not made that choice.

If Jill and Derrick do not want the details of their lives open for public comment, they are free to stop making them public. No one is forcing them to participate in a two hour VSE about their childbirth experience.

They have made their lives paid entertainment for millions of people and I do find them entertaining. I don't feel the least of guilt for picking their parenting apart.

Yep- once you are over 18, and certainly once you have your own kid that you should be doing everything to protect, you're fair game, IMO.

At that point, you've agreed to the public life, easy money and all else that comes with that very public life.

I've yet to see an adult Duggar walk away from the public platform and easy money. Like with any job, you accept all the parameters associated or you quit and get a new job.

Also, I've never seen/heard an adult Duggar admit when they were wrong about something. Clueless and closed minded is a bad combination.

[Miggy]

Re: Swadling

When Son 1 was born in 1995, the nurses were constantly wrapping him up and insisting I wrap him up. I was told he would sleep better, he would feed better, he would he calmer during the day, etc. if wrapped up tightly. I wasn't given any advice on how long this should go on for. Of course, from day 1 Son hated being wrapped and would fight to free his arms, then be quite happy. Nurses wouldn't accept this though - I was a young, first time mum. What did I know? It was a relief to go home.

Some cultures keep kids wrapped for months. Some don't do it at all. The kids all seem to do ok. If Izzy likes it and it works for Jill, it's fine.

[AngelGirl8811]

Jill's a new mom, she is going to make mistakes but I wish that she would say that. It's fine to say that you don't know things. If she stopped acting like she knew it all and just said that she made a mistake, I think she'd feel better. It's hard to be perfect!

I know that she's raised her siblings but newborns are different, I think!

[BrownieMomma]

Jill chooses to continue to live her life in the public eye. She also continues to portray herself and her family of origin as the experts on all things Christian.

Let me show you this little book she and her sisters wrote on relationships before any of them ever had one....

To the Duggars, if you aren't doing it their way then you aren't doing it right. Token Amy never fooled me for a moment.

Never mind that they promote and perpetuate this perfect Christian image, they also play fast and loose with the truth.

They do these things in a way that is harmful.

Honestly, Mama Mia shame on you for your shaming post.

[marmalade]

Duggar Hubris: It's so Neat and Special, not confined to any particular Season of Life.

[OkToBeTakei]

Jill chooses to continue to live her life in the public eye. She also continues to portray herself and her family of origin as the experts on all things Christian.

Let me show you this little book she and her sisters wrote on relationships before any of them ever had one....

To the Duggars, if you aren't doing it their way then you aren't doing it right. Token Amy never fooled me for a moment.

Never mind that they promote and perpetuate this perfect Christian image, they also play fast and loose with the truth.

They do these things in a way that is harmful.

Honestly, Mama Mia shame on you for your shaming post.

Get a fucking grip :lol:

It's a bit of fun. The fact that folks take it seriously is where the snark is. Get it?

There is no point of these posts dealing with the real issues of patriarchy. So ...yeah..fuck off.

[Coco]

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Laughing Baby Tension Diffuser[tm][/tm] :lol:

[MiddleAgedLady]

Derick posted a picture on Instagram and called Jill a Proverbs 31 woman. I thought they took the Bible literally. Jill doesn't weave cloth for their clothes or plant grapes in a vineyard!

[ClaraOswin]

Jill's a new mom, she is going to make mistakes but I wish that she would say that. It's fine to say that you don't know things. If she stopped acting like she knew it all and just said that she made a mistake, I think she'd feel better. It's hard to be perfect!

I know that she's raised her siblings but newborns are different, I think!

A lot of times we don't really recognize our mistakes until they are farther in the past. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that.

As far as swaddling, I've done no research on it really. I do know some babies love it and some hate it. My son liked it sometimes. But when he was about 1 month old, that's when he really started to hate it.

Oh, and once they can roll, it's no longer safe.

[lascuba]

I agree as much as the next person that some of the criticisms and speculations are over the top, but...you people snarking on the snark do realize that most people wouldn't actually say the stuff they day here to a Duggar's face, right? Because it sounds like that's the basis of your complaints and that's really f'ing bizarre. The Duggars are, in a sense, public figures, they put their lives out there for consumption so they can get money and "minister" to the masses. If their piddling ass feelings are hurt by things people on the internet say about--not TO--them, well, they know what they could do about it. It'd be one thing if people were spamming her instagram or twitter accounts with these comments--that's vile and and people who do that suck--but people talking amongst themselves about whatever asinine thing Jill has said or done lately is fine, whatever the quality of the remarks might be.

Arguing with opinions--cool. Claiming people with those opinions are cruel harpies who go around saying shit to new moms--ridiculous. You're claiming some non-existent moral high ground to invalidate any criticism, and that's buyllshit.

[EmmieJ]

Well I think that about exactly sums up the Jill hate.

I don't hate Jill. I think she's fairly ignorant, very rigid in her opinions, and I do think she put her baby's well being at serious risk because of her determination that she would have the baby at home. I see you put a lot of effort into the imaginary conversation between a "snoop" and a very reasonable version of Jill (although it just didn't sound like any version of Jill I've seen on the show).

Anyway, it's clear you think a lot of us here are just busybody snoops. Oh well.

[EmmieJ]

Don"t stop commenting. You made a comment. There was nothing wrong with it, but some people feel Jill is getting "crucified" on this board. The reason there is so many negative comments about Jill is quite possibly related to her "holier than thou" and "know it all" attitude when she clearly does not know much about childbirth and some basic infant care at all. Please don't let one person scare you off commenting. Differences of opinion are par for the course and actually a good thing - we are not one size fits all.

Can I please just say that I wasn't picking apart Jill's parenting, or implying negligence with my post about the swaddling, it was just an observation because it is not a practice done where I live. Nor did I intend to irk anyone and cause a whole debate. In future I'll keep my observations to myself... :shifty: sorry if I've offended anyone :shock:

[EmmieJ]

Get a fucking grip :lol:

It's a bit of fun. The fact that folks take it seriously is where the snark is. Get it?

There is no point of these posts dealing with the real issues of patriarchy. So ...yeah..fuck off.

I don't get it either, so I guess I'm also to fuck off? I didn't find it snarky, I found it a form of "tsk, tsk, tsking" at some posters here. I have no problem with differing opinions. I do have a problem that some people are told to fuck off if they have a differing opinion.

[lascuba]

It's funny because Jill was an FJ favorite for a long time before she got engaged. I felt like the sole voice of dissent on that score. And now people harp on her as much as they do Michelle, Jim Bob, and Josh and it's this huge moral failing that proves that FJ is cesspool. :lol:

[ClaraOswin]

I post in the Jill thread a lot but I don't really have any hate toward her. Sometimes it's just fun to snark and gossip. Doesn't mean I'd say horrible things to her face. Or to the face of any other mother. Though I WOULD tell her the sling was wrong. But with most parenting choices...there isn't a right or a wrong way to do things. Just different ways. (Exceptions being things that could physically harm your child and whatnot.) I don't think gossiping about a public figure's choices is really that bad though.

I wasn't around on FJ before Jill was engaged. I didn't really watch much of the show before that actually. So I don't know if attitudes have changed drastically or not.

The more I find out about some Duggars...the less I like them (Jessa.) But then others...the more I find out...I like them more (Jana.) Of course, opinions are always going to change over time. I may end up liking Jessa more or hating Jana more later. Who knows.

[SassyPants]

It's funny because Jill was an FJ favorite for a long time before she got engaged. I felt like the sole voice of dissent on that score. And now people harp on her as much as they do Michelle, Jim Bob, and Josh and it's this huge moral failing that proves that FJ is cesspool. :lol:

I think the reaction is more to a changing tide than to the sentiments expressed. Some of the more offensive (to other members not re the Duggars) appear, at least to me, to more about attention seeking than anything else. Everytime I see "Eff off "or "Eff you" posted to a member or in response to a comment made, I just LOL- trying waaay too hard to feign disgust, IMO.

[Kira]

Jill was an FJ favorite? I've been a member of FJ since 2010, I wouldn't say Jill (or any of the Duggars) was a favorite of FJ :shrug:

[lascuba]

I wonder how much of the defensiveness regarding Jill is just an extension of the whole "mommy wars" thing. Nothing like criticizing birth and parenting choices of those not the parents of 19 children to really bring out the rage.

[SassyPants]

I wonder how much of the defensiveness regarding Jill is just an extension of the whole "mommy wars" thing. Nothing like criticizing birth and parenting choices of those not the parents of 19 children to really bring out the rage.

I think it's all fake-

People who were used to the board going in a certain direction and perhaps the direction has changed a bit.

Lots of folks hate change.

Love when adults try to "scold" other adults. It's comical.

If you think Jill is MOTY, show us why.

If you think Jessa is pleasant, provide examples to defend your position.

If you think Jill's account of birth is the truth, give tangibles as to why.

Oh, I saw a photo of Jill being rolled into the OR that says, "Surgery after 60 hours of labor"...so did her surgery take 10 hours???

[lascuba]

Jill was an FJ favorite? I've been a member of FJ since 2010, I don't recall any Duggar being a favorite of FJ :shrug:

She had a lot of defenders and very few detractors. Or, honestly, it could have been that of all the older children she's always been the one I disliked the most, so that's just what my bias made me see. One incident that still stands out to me was when the five older girls were talking about their beliefs about courtships and relationships. When it came time to talk about Jinger and what type of husband she'd have, some of the other girls said it would have to be someone who'd bring her coffee and not live in the middle of nowhere, and Jinger excitedly said, "City please! City please!" Jill immediately shot her down with something like, "But if you don't end up in a city it would be because God is working on you." The overwhelming response here was that the only reason Jill would say that was because she knew Michelle and Jim Bob would be pissed at Jinger so Jill wanted to warn her away from that topic. To this day that incident is still on the top of my list of things on FJ that made me think, "WTF is WRONG with you?!"

[socalrules]

I think Jill was given more leaway before she was engaged because it was hoped that, once married, she might see the world differently. Maybe she would want to go to college or give her children a different life from her own. I think people are disappointed that Jill seems to want the exact life her parents had and is doing whatever she can to make it happen. Realistically, most, if not all of the Duggar kids will likely tow the line to some extent. It isn't as though theu have a reason not to. Zach Bates said he would let his son watch Winnie the Pooh. Alyssa Bates is wearing sleeveless dresses and jeans. Neither is a big deal to us but it is huge in the world they were raised in. They have made baby steps outside of the box they were raised it. I don't see Jill or any of her siblings doing anything of the sort. Jill has been married nearly a year, yet she has never show any sort of growth. It makes me think that Zach and Alyssa have had doubts or questions about how they were raised. Jill appears to have never questioned anything she was taught. I cannot see that changing anytime soon. Her delivery just shows that she is content in the box her parents put her in.

[BrownieMomma]

Whatever the consensus of opinion about Jill before her marriage and move into the adult world, I find it to be so disappointing that not only have JB&M retained their iron grip on Jill, they have successfully sucked Derick into it.

It is my true belief that this patriarchy and quiverfull are dangerous and damaging beliefs, especially to women. I know it is still early in the game, but I had harbored hope that as the adult children moved away from JB&M they would start to see cracks and fissures. So far it seems they are even more devout than the parents.

Time will tell a different tale I'm sure. It is disheartening to me how many people think the Duggars are "at least something to safely watch on TV" and have no clue what the Duggars are really doing.

[nst]

I think it's all fake-

People who were used to the board going in a certain direction and perhaps the direction has changed a bit.

Lots of folks hate change.

Love when adults try to "scold" other adults. It's comical.

If you think Jill is MOTY, show us why.

If you think Jessa is pleasant, provide examples to defend your position.

If you think Jill's account of birth is the truth, give tangibles as to why.

Oh, I saw a photo of Jill being rolled into the OR that says, "Surgery after 60 hours of labor"...so did her surgery take 10 hours???

I love this post :) and you are brilliant

I personally am falling of Jessa's trolly of fun

[Toothfairy]

I don't like Jill at all. I was never team Jill. I don't know it's just her personality and redness towards others like her siblings. I also don't feel bad that she's being picked apart. I hate when reality tv stars cry that people talk bad about them, duhh you're on public tv.

Now that Jill's a mom, she's with the mommy club. In the mommy club other moms will tell you how you should raise your kids. I got a lot of hate for not breastfeeding, having my sons circumcised, piercing my daughter ears, etc.