Which kid will be the worst off in the end?

[Four is Enough]

By the time the youngest Four gets out of college, and hopefully moves out, Mr. Four and I will be in our mid-60s. (Actually, with the oldest Four in grad school, they'll probably both finish at the same time!) :lol: Anyway, he and I have been actively parenting all these years, and plan to continue until it's time to boot 'em out.

[JMO]

I think who has the worst depends on what happens to the kids at marrying/courting time. For the girls, if any of their headships end up being controlling/abusive then they can get sucked into a personal hell. I especially worry about this happening to Jana since she is so sweet and quiet. For any of the kids, if they happened to be gay (not that I'm saying any of them are, but if one happened to be) then that would be a total hell. Being forced to live a lie with a family and religion that is telling you that you are damaged and evil and going to hell. Then forcing yourself into marriage because it is expected.

I also agree some of the older kids are in for a rude awakening, especially Jessa. Once People magazine no longer wants to pay good $$ for pics and interviews and her boy toy doesn't have any reasonable skills and they are cramped for $$ things are going to go bad. Really bad. Some of the middle kids will also get shocked since all they know is the ability to go on trips and ipads and iphones and no true money concerns.

[kmary1]

I hope that by the time the younger ones are 18+ years old, JB+M will be so far removed from parenting that the rules will ease up and they can live normal lives. It's pretty common for the rules to ease up for the younger children, even in families with only 2-3. Maybe the younger ones will get to go to real college, even if it takes them 6 years to graduate because they need to spend the first 2 catching up on high school. It's already pretty obvious that the kids are way less disciplined now than their older siblings were on earlier episodes of the show.

I remember a couple years ago thinking Joy was my favorite because she seemed different and less robotic than the others. Now it looks like the brainwashing is taking its toll on her and she's losing her spunky personality.

[SassyPants]

I hope that by the time the younger ones are 18+ years old, JB+M will be so far removed from parenting that the rules will ease up and they can live normal lives. It's pretty common for the rules to ease up for the younger children, even in families with only 2-3. Maybe the younger ones will get to go to real college, even if it takes them 6 years to graduate because they need to spend the first 2 catching up on high school. It's already pretty obvious that the kids are way less disciplined now than their older siblings were on earlier episodes of the show.

I remember a couple years ago thinking Joy was my favorite because she seemed different and less robotic than the others. Now it looks like the brainwashing is taking its toll on her and she's losing her spunky personality.

Yep.

I am thinking Jessa's life is going to be fairly miserable. And in turn, she'll likely make others' lives miserable too.

[nst]

I remember a couple years ago thinking Joy was my favorite because she seemed different and less robotic than the others. Now it looks like the brainwashing is taking its toll on her and she's losing her spunky personality.

yes !!

This 1000%

[AngelGirl8811]

Joy and Josiah along with Jenny worry me the most. Joy and Josiah used to have such a great relationship and I thought that when they did the talking heads together they were absolutely hilarious but both of them seem so subdued and unhappy. John David and Joseph seem to be pretty close and a lot alike and Josh is much older so I really can't see Josiah bonding with any of them, he just seems different than everyone else and like he doesn't want to be there. Joy was a tomboy and she liked spending time with all of the brothers that she had and once puberty hit, it was time for her to suddenly relate to Jana, Jill, Jessa, and Jinger. Not saying that she couldn't relate to them and since Jill was basically a Mom to her, this had to be a bit strange. Jenni is so sad, I was a pretty quiet child, and sometimes seemed sad but was happy with lots of attention from my parents. When Mullet took her to get glasses it was like she was seeing her for the first time. Are you my Mummy? Like the child from Doctor Who. I don't know I think all of them are damaged in their own way but I feel less sympathy for Jill and Jessa. Jill seems genuinely happy and Jessa just seems bitter so she's spewing hate. Jana's story about the music box always makes tears come to my eyes because she shouldn't have been expected to do that. How much did she cry then if she still cries about it as an adult? Well I guess she's been an adult all her life. It's hard to say who has suffered the most but I think they all have suffered in one way or another.

[whoviana]

Do any Family Guy fan have a recollection of one episode's charming song called "Prom night dumpster baby"? A girl dumps her baby in the trashcan outside, a guy comes looking for her, hey, don't you wanna go inside and dance? " And she was like: Sure! Then that sweetly morbid scene with the other prom night dumpster babies. Once she has dropped them - fuq them.

[Sundaymorning]

By the time the youngest Four gets out of college, and hopefully moves out, Mr. Four and I will be in our mid-60s. (Actually, with the oldest Four in grad school, they'll probably both finish at the same time!) :lol: Anyway, he and I have been actively parenting all these years, and plan to continue until it's time to boot 'em out.

Yes, but I suppose that you don't micromanage your childrens lives the way the Duggars do? Don't get me wrong, I really respect anyone who raises four children as an active parent.

But the Duggars aren't "just" active parents, in fact, they aren't even parenting at all, but still like to maintain a very strict control over their children when it comes to matters like dating, dressing, jobs and such. And there are 19 of them. Brainwashing and constantly controlling and nipping any signs of rebellion in the bud must be quite tiring.

I can imagine that after the 10th courtship, things might get really old, even for loonies like Boob and J'Chelle, and after the 15th child, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have the energy anymore to put up a fight if a lost girl wants to go to college wearing jeans and gets a part-time job at Starbucks.

[LittleOleMe]

Do any Family Guy fan have a recollection of one episode's charming song called "Prom night dumpster baby"? A girl dumps her baby in the trashcan outside, a guy comes looking for her, hey, don't you wanna go inside and dance? " And she was like: Sure! Then that sweetly morbid scene with the other prom night dumpster babies. Once she has dropped them - fuq them.

[bBvideo 560,340:gkpehlck]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRj-S8Aklcw[/bBvideo]

I always laughed at this and thought it was hilarious - and I still do - but you're right that it very accurately portrays J'chelle. Once they're born, they just aren't as important anymore. It's sad. I still wonder if they would have changed the show title had Jubilee been born alive and later died. Or if Josie hadn't survived. Hopefully we don't have to find out with another pregnancy.

[rodgerdodger]

For me, I definitely worry the most about Josiah. Not just because he seems to be dumped off at Alert with no real ties to the family anymore except for the same creepy blue-shirt photo that he is shopped in for every promo pic.

For me, I've watched the Duggars since their first special, and I am the same exact age as Josiah. And, not going to lie, I had a crush on him when I was little because, well, I had a crush on any boy my age when I was 8 :lol:

So, for that reason when I watched all the specials I always focused on Josiah and saw how funny he was. It's clear in the show and the specials how Josiah got a majority of the TH; he was seen as the spunky yet wholesome all-American boy. Then, slowly, around fourteen they started cutting off his interviews and replacing them with others, which is normal because the younger the kids=more views. But it all seemed really odd to me, especially since I sort of grew up at the same time as Josiah and related to him the most (of course I didn't watch the specials or the show daily--or even weekly--I would tune in every once in awhile and he was the one I wanted to see).

Then, he stops being featured altogether and is seen as a background noise. Then he gets shipped off to Alert for years, and now they are photoshopping him in all the pictures.

There is something wrong when a kid goes from the center of attention to essentially being cut off from all communication with their family by being sent to camp.

[FloraKitty35]

For me, I definitely worry the most about Josiah. Not just because he seems to be dumped off at Alert with no real ties to the family anymore except for the same creepy blue-shirt photo that he is shopped in for every promo pic.

For me, I've watched the Duggars since their first special, and I am the same exact age as Josiah. And, not going to lie, I had a crush on him when I was little because, well, I had a crush on any boy my age when I was 8 :lol:

So, for that reason when I watched all the specials I always focused on Josiah and saw how funny he was. It's clear in the show and the specials how Josiah got a majority of the TH; he was seen as the spunky yet wholesome all-American boy. Then, slowly, around fourteen they started cutting off his interviews and replacing them with others, which is normal because the younger the kids=more views. But it all seemed really odd to me, especially since I sort of grew up at the same time as Josiah and related to him the most (of course I didn't watch the specials or the show daily--or even weekly--I would tune in every once in awhile and he was the one I wanted to see).

Then, he stops being featured altogether and is seen as a background noise. Then he gets shipped off to Alert for years, and now they are photoshopping him in all the pictures.

There is something wrong when a kid goes from the center of attention to essentially being cut off from all communication with their family by being sent to camp.

He is one of the ones that I genuinely feel the worst for. :( He seemed considerably more articulate than his John David or Joseph. Those two reminded me of Beavis and Butthead.

[fabkiwi06]

Keeping in mind, we're judging what we see a few hours a week on a very edited TV show.

Emotionally... I worry about Josh and Jenny. They both just seem... sad. Josh is an adult with adult problems now and I don't think he was adequately prepared to deal with them. Over the years, his eyes just seem to get sadder and sadder.

Jenny is still a very young child and she's so stoic. That just seems off. She never smiles. Little children shouldn't be that serious all the time. I don't think anyone in that family has taken the time to make sure she's ok... they just write it off as "Serious Jenny". I'm worried for her as an adult. I hope her Buddy (Joy I think now) still loves on her because I don't think anyone else does.

The rest have their issues... but I think they also have better options in dealing with a lot of those.

[ADoyle90815]

Keeping in mind, we're judging what we see a few hours a week on a very edited TV show.

Emotionally... I worry about Josh and Jenny. They both just seem... sad. Josh is an adult with adult problems now and I don't think he was adequately prepared to deal with them. Over the years, his eyes just seem to get sadder and sadder.

Jenny is still a very young child and she's so stoic. That just seems off. She never smiles. Little children shouldn't be that serious all the time. I don't think anyone in that family has taken the time to make sure she's ok... they just write it off as "Serious Jenny". I'm worried for her as an adult. I hope her Buddy (Joy I think now) still loves on her because I don't think anyone else does.

The rest have their issues... but I think they also have better options in dealing with a lot of those.

One reason I worry about Josh is that you could tell he wasn't that happy that his wife was pregnant again. If the TLC gravy train stopped and he lost his job in DC, he would really suffer since he most likely remembers the early days, and I think he doesn't really want that for his family.

I also worry about Josie as she will always be the "miracle child" who won't have to learn to do anything on her own, so when her birth parents die and her buddy mom gets married and has children of her own, life is going to be especially difficult for her. In a way, I have to look at what happened to my batshit crazy uncle who now that my grandparents are both dead, is in for a tough life because my grandma paid his rent and other bills when he lived on his own, and he's never had a job long enough to be able to earn retirement or even Social Security. I think Josie could be in for a similar fate, only worse if she's got developmental delays we don't see on camera.

[nataraja]

For me, I definitely worry the most about Josiah. Not just because he seems to be dumped off at Alert with no real ties to the family anymore except for the same creepy blue-shirt photo that he is shopped in for every promo pic.

For me, I've watched the Duggars since their first special, and I am the same exact age as Josiah. And, not going to lie, I had a crush on him when I was little because, well, I had a crush on any boy my age when I was 8 :lol:

So, for that reason when I watched all the specials I always focused on Josiah and saw how funny he was. It's clear in the show and the specials how Josiah got a majority of the TH; he was seen as the spunky yet wholesome all-American boy. Then, slowly, around fourteen they started cutting off his interviews and replacing them with others, which is normal because the younger the kids=more views. But it all seemed really odd to me, especially since I sort of grew up at the same time as Josiah and related to him the most (of course I didn't watch the specials or the show daily--or even weekly--I would tune in every once in awhile and he was the one I wanted to see).

Then, he stops being featured altogether and is seen as a background noise. Then he gets shipped off to Alert for years, and now they are photoshopping him in all the pictures.

There is something wrong when a kid goes from the center of attention to essentially being cut off from all communication with their family by being sent to camp.

He is photoshoped in? How and where?

Josiah's camp situation also worries me. I wish people would write more about it here on freejinger but maybe people don't do it because they then would want to include a topic that is (understandible) forbidden in here. I find I find it weird that Josiah is in an ati alert camp while Joseph goes to college.

And in the recent pictures I have seen of him his hair looks really short, almost shaven off. Remember the rumours that Josh had his hair shaven off as some form of punishment when he was a teenager?

[MatthewDuggar]

One reason I worry about Josh is that you could tell he wasn't that happy that his wife was pregnant again. If the TLC gravy train stopped and he lost his job in DC, he would really suffer since he most likely remembers the early days, and I think he doesn't really want that for his family.

I think Smugs is very conflicted. He works for a company that requires him to harbour a great deal of hate, that can wear on a person for sure. I am sure he loves the "fame" and money, but he's already paying the price. He may have more freedom now, but he's not really free. He still has to be a puppet for TLC and his job.

[Four is Enough]

Yes, but I suppose that you don't micromanage your childrens lives the way the Duggars do?

But the Duggars aren't "just" active parents, in fact, they aren't even parenting at all, but still like to maintain a very strict control over their children when it comes to matters like dating, dressing, jobs and such. And there are 19 of them. Brainwashing and constantly controlling and nipping any signs of rebellion in the bud must be quite tiring.

I can imagine that after the 10th courtship, things might get really old, even for loonies like Boob and J'Chelle, and after the 15th child, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have the energy anymore to put up a fight if a lost girl wants to go to college wearing jeans and gets a part-time job at Starbucks.

I hear that. Basically, the hardest thing now is to be there when they make a decision, then the consequences rear their ugly heads. Gotta let 'em learn, right? You can be there, you can listen, you can talk, but you have to let them go out on their own and do what they need to do.

In our situation, we're controlling nothing but the purse strings of the college funds.. and basically, when that runs out, it runs out, and the kids pay their own way at the college of their choice..

All the stupid things that the Duggars fixate on... like covering the collarbones.. is just trivial compared to preparing a child for a future job, spouse, children...

[weirdemmaline]

Josiah.

(snip) He just seems to clash with his family and all that time at ALERT, while it is *possible* that he's there 100% by choice it's not that probable.

Jackson.

He's the youngest of the lost boys and he's so incredibly attached to Hannie. When those two are finally made to stop being close friends that poor kid's gonna be so lost. Although at least by the time he's 18 Boob and Mullet will likely be out of the house full time giving testimony at random churches and just generally avoiding any kind of responsibility whatsoever...

[SassyPants]

Jenny- I wonder if she is ever genuinely happy and relaxed?

[fabkiwi06]

If we're going to assume that Josie has some kind of developmental issues that require her to constantly be cared for, I think it's fair to assume that the Duggars have plan for her once JimBob and Michelle pass on. Whomever her buddy is probably has accepted that she will be her responsibility after that point.

For what it's worth, I don't think Josie is in that bad of shape. Babied and spoiled beyond belief and perhaps needing some extra help to come up to speed but I think at worst she's just gonna be an airhead of an adult. Since she's the last in this family, she has the most options to gain help from everyone else's experience.

Edited to add: I also worry more for the older children who were directly exposed to Gothard and those within his circle. Hopefully none of them had any harmful experiences involving him and his indiscretions.

[SassyPants]

The person who said the middle cluster is spot on correct. I'll say #s 7-13 are probably in the worst predicament, as they were born into a large family, yet the oldest kids were still really too young to provide decent, safe or proper care. At least the oldest ones had some parental involvement before the shear child to parent ratio became too out of control, and the younger ones had "adult" surrogate parents.

The middle group really received little parenting or adult input.

[Feberin]

If we're going to assume that Josie has some kind of developmental issues that require her to constantly be cared for, I think it's fair to assume that the Duggars have plan for her once JimBob and Michelle pass on. Whomever her buddy is probably has accepted that she will be her responsibility after that point.

For what it's worth, I don't think Josie is in that bad of shape. Babied and spoiled beyond belief and perhaps needing some extra help to come up to speed but I think at worst she's just gonna be an airhead of an adult. Since she's the last in this family, she has the most options to gain help from everyone else's experience.

Edited to add: I also worry more for the older children who were directly exposed to Gothard and those within his circle. Hopefully none of them had any harmful experiences involving him and his indiscretions.

Since Josie's buddy is Jana I would be shocked if she just got left to fend for herself if she really is as developmentally delayed as everyone thinks. If I were to guess I'd think she'd be a little behind her peers and if they were going the public school route would either need to be held back a year or repeat kindergarten but after that would be able to keep up well enough. I don't see something like Jill spoon feeding her meaning that she has no fine motor skills. She may be a little behind on them but as an adult it'll probably just mean difficult to read handwriting.

[Cleopatra7]

He is one of the ones that I genuinely feel the worst for. :( He seemed considerably more articulate than his John David or Joseph. Those two reminded me of Beavis and Butthead.

Given how much of a fan-favorite Josiah is, this makes his editing out of the later seasons even more conspicuous. In the earlier seasons, the producers made a point of showing the J'slaves with other non-Duggar female friends, as if to prove to us that they had lives outside of the TTC (still not convinced, but whatever). There have been plenty of other FU Internet moments based on things that have been discussed on FJ, the late TWoP, and other online discussion sites. You would think that the producers would try to throw us a bone to show us that Josiah is "happy" or at least towing the family line, but they're not. In comparison, there have been several episodes to "prove" that Jana, another Duggar kid rumored to be unhappy, is content in her current state. It all makes me wonder what the truth is. :?

[ElderPrice]

Whoever who had the disadvantage of having Jessa as their buddy, They have no hope.

I am a looooong time luker and for some reason I finally felt compelled to post. I live in Lowell, about 2 towns over for the blessed Tontitown the Duggars call home. I've seen them countless times since I moved here 5 years ago (I've had most contact with josh) but the one that sticks out in my mind the most is the last time I saw Jessa. I worked at target for 2 years and towards the end (I just quit recently when I got engaged) they would come in several times a week. It's less than a mile from Jills, so probably stopping in when going to see her. Whenever they would be spotted we'd text one another on floor because how they'd trash the zones we just finished. Anyway, one night I was zoning in men's and it was really dead so I could hear everything going on in the store. I looked up and Jessa and Ben were over in the hosiery area directly across from me. They had a hand basket full of leggings and they spent quite awhile looking at them all. Jessa kept making eye contact with me, and I kept awkwardly making eye contact back while folding. Ben and Jessa were extremely close, kept awkwardly staring at one another and holding hands while their chaperones (I didn't see any other adult, unless they were somewhere else in the store and this was before the wedding) were going insane. They had 3-4 little ones (couldn't tell who) who were running all over the place in the area over from them, messing up everything, being extremely loud and it took them a few minutes to gather them up to leave. Jessa never once paid them the slightest attention until she was ready to leave. Those kids would never make it in a school environment at this stage, if they don't get some motherly/fatherly/buddy attention, love and guidance..it scares me what they're going to grow into. The younger ones have been let so far gone.

[apandaaries]

Whoever who had the disadvantage of having Jessa as their buddy, They have no hope.

I am a looooong time luker and for some reason I finally felt compelled to post. I live in Lowell, about 2 towns over for the blessed Tontitown the Duggars call home. I've seen them countless times since I moved here 5 years ago (I've had most contact with josh) but the one that sticks out in my mind the most is the last time I saw Jessa. I worked at target for 2 years and towards the end (I just quit recently when I got engaged) they would come in several times a week. It's less than a mile from Jills, so probably stopping in when going to see her. Whenever they would be spotted we'd text one another on floor because how they'd trash the zones we just finished. Anyway, one night I was zoning in men's and it was really dead so I could hear everything going on in the store. I looked up and Jessa and Ben were over in the hosiery area directly across from me. They had a hand basket full of leggings and they spent quite awhile looking at them all. Jessa kept making eye contact with me, and I kept awkwardly making eye contact back while folding. Ben and Jessa were extremely close, kept awkwardly staring at one another and holding hands while their chaperones (I didn't see any other adult, unless they were somewhere else in the store and this was before the wedding) were going insane. They had 3-4 little ones (couldn't tell who) who were running all over the place in the area over from them, messing up everything, being extremely loud and it took them a few minutes to gather them up to leave. Jessa never once paid them the slightest attention until she was ready to leave. Those kids would never make it in a school environment at this stage, if they don't get some motherly/fatherly/buddy attention, love and guidance..it scares me what they're going to grow into. The younger ones have been let so far gone.

Thanks for posting! This sounds like exactly what I'd expect from them. I can never forget that Jessa was the one put in charge of the education of the younger ones. Hideous decision, even for that family. But having seen Jill's skills in the kitchen with minute rice and fractions, I'm beginning to expect even less from the Duggars. They are so limited with their skill set and their minimal education.

That limited education is starting to make me feel some genuine sympathy for Josh. Remember when he wanted to be a lawyer? And now he's in DC with truly educated people, seeing how trapped he is without college. There is no way he could get through a real university with four kids and a wife to support. His current job relies on his family's public image; when TLC takes them off, his security will be gone. He seems aware of that, and he seems to show a growing awareness of how difficult it is to raise a megafamily. M4 seems to terrify/sadden him. He was pretty slimy and gross during his courtship, and he and Anna were absurd to include in their vows a promise to never use birth control...I wonder how seriously he still takes that vow. Exposure to life outside of Arkansas seems to be changing him, and he seems a bit bitter over having to "leave and cleave" -- kind of different from how his sisters have been treated. Anna still seems convinced her only value comes from being a broodmare and mother. Either she's completely uninvolved in their finances or is accustomed to the idea of poverty following her upbringing (IIRC, the Kellers did not appear to have two nickels to rub together). Or maybe she's deluded herself to think that Jim Boob will help them out, rather than lavishing funds on his daughters.

I still worry about all of them, but the added publicity might make it better for the later kids (though that doesn't seem to help get Josiah out of ALERT). But Joe is getting out to go to college! And it's possible that the exposure will help the others escape. I'm still holding out hope for Jana to make the jump, too.

[SassyPants]

Whoever who had the disadvantage of having Jessa as their buddy, They have no hope.

I am a looooong time luker and for some reason I finally felt compelled to post. I live in Lowell, about 2 towns over for the blessed Tontitown the Duggars call home. I've seen them countless times since I moved here 5 years ago (I've had most contact with josh) but the one that sticks out in my mind the most is the last time I saw Jessa. I worked at target for 2 years and towards the end (I just quit recently when I got engaged) they would come in several times a week. It's less than a mile from Jills, so probably stopping in when going to see her. Whenever they would be spotted we'd text one another on floor because how they'd trash the zones we just finished. Anyway, one night I was zoning in men's and it was really dead so I could hear everything going on in the store. I looked up and Jessa and Ben were over in the hosiery area directly across from me. They had a hand basket full of leggings and they spent quite awhile looking at them all. Jessa kept making eye contact with me, and I kept awkwardly making eye contact back while folding. Ben and Jessa were extremely close, kept awkwardly staring at one another and holding hands while their chaperones (I didn't see any other adult, unless they were somewhere else in the store and this was before the wedding) were going insane. They had 3-4 little ones (couldn't tell who) who were running all over the place in the area over from them, messing up everything, being extremely loud and it took them a few minutes to gather them up to leave. Jessa never once paid them the slightest attention until she was ready to leave. Those kids would never make it in a school environment at this stage, if they don't get some motherly/fatherly/buddy attention, love and guidance..it scares me what they're going to grow into. The younger ones have been let so far gone.

Chaperones sound a whole like free babysitting ala Duggarville!