Which kid will be the worst off in the end?

[Toothfairy]

I wonder since the Duggars are in the public eye will they try to send or not send their younger kids for brainwashing. Is JTTH still around?

[RosyDaisy]

Really hard to say right no who would be worst off. I do think Jill and Derrick will handle it better simply because Derrick has a good job, and Jill can return to midwifery.

[jinseng]

You can tell that Anna has already taught Makynsie about saving her first kiss for the wedding day. She talks about it like she is so excited for that day when she can get married and kiss. And shes like... 5? Those little girls do flail around a lot and are definitely not properly blanket trained like the older ones... they may as well be wearing pants the way they kick their legs in the air and their dresses go up around their waist... personally that looks way more immodest to me than if they were just wearing a tshirt and pants. I have the instinct to think 'omg pull your dress down!' even though they have leggings underneath.

[LittleOleMe]

Same here :( Jana is the oldest girl that I worry for the most, cause she just seems so submissive, broken and unable to speak up for herself. The others are pretty screwed from their shitty upbringing, but they have stronger personalities than poor Jana. I really hope nothing happened to her :(

I've wondered this, too. As horrible as it sounds, I wonder if they now see her as damaged and that's why she stays home. Or if she sees herself that way. I doubt many men in their circle would be okay with a wife who wasn't pure, outside of her being widowed. :cry:

[morri]

No, I haven't seen it. Can you please tell us where we can find it?

in case it wasnt posted yet.

https://scontent-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot ... e=5585B326

[Nellie]

I honestly dont know why so many people here think Josie is spoiled or badly behaved. She seems to me like any average kid, a bit of an attitude but nothing vile or out of the ordinary. How is she worse than little Jessa who used to kick and torment Jana? To me Josie looks rumbunctious and not as crushed and zombiefied as some of the other kids. I think once she realizes how much obedience is expected of her in the cult, she wil tell them all to go to hell and escape the Duggarville. Personally I have high hopes for Josie!

[apandaaries]

I honestly dont know why so many people here think Josie is spoiled or badly behaved. She seems to me like any average kid, a bit of an attitude but nothing vile or out of the ordinary. How is she worse than little Jessa who used to kick and torment Jana? To me Josie looks rumbunctious and not as crushed and zombiefied as some of the other kids. I think once she realizes how much obedience is expected of her in the cult, she wil tell them all to go to hell and escape the Duggarville. Personally I have high hopes for Josie!

I think the problem is she always looks so happy and rambunctious, and then we see, on the very same screen with the very same parents, the abject neglect of Jordyn and Jenny. A sister mom is not a substitute. Josie is the first kid in who knows how many to truly have Mullet's attention. That's sad for all of them, but especially the ones closest in age to Josie. They feel that neglect and disinterest deeply. That pic of Jenny linked above is just so sad. She looks so depressed so often, despite her very young age. Then we have little Josie, hailed as the miracle child and never longing for a parent's affection. The contrast in attention makes for difficult to watch TV, and I think some people get irritated to watch one child be so favored above all others. It's obviously not Josie's fault that she has such horrible parents (nor is is Jenny or Jordyn or any of the other J'slaves' fault), but to see her lavished with so much attention is tough. I do like how she seems much more spirited than the others -- I think that's led to Mullet developing that vise grip for Josie's arm she's so often pictured with. One recap I read called Josie "America's Tiniest Wolverine," which seems incredibly apt. She is able to bust through any rule her siblings have been forced to obey, and I do like that. But it does make the difference between her behavior and her siblings' behavior that much more jarring and upsetting.

[Fundie Bunny]

in case it wasnt posted yet.

https://scontent-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot ... e=5585B326

Seeing that makes me want to cry. Poor little thing. She needs love. And parents who really care for her.

[ILoveJellybeans]

That is just the saddest child in the whole world. She looks like she has been through major trauma or something.

[Nellie]

Hmmm... personally Im happy to see any signs of personality amongst the Duggar kids, incl James and Jackson, and I welcome all of it, the more the better. And there is nothing wrong if Josie throws a couple of tantrums in her teenage years, no need to always be submissive especially with Michelle. I hope she will inspire her beaten down older siblings to stand up for themselves and maybe in 10 yrs or so she and Jordyn will lead a Duggar escape for all the four younger girls.

And yes Jordyn and Jenni are neglected but I believe they`ve all come in peace with it. Michelle is not the kind of mum I would want to have around anyway. Its funny to see how Josh, Jessa and Jill praise their mom without realizing that they`ve had a competely different experience growing up than the younger kids have. I enjoy seeing Josie displaying a little bit of an attitude and I feel its rubbing off on Jordyn in a good way. Josie is the first slightly bratty kid that Michelle is not quite able to fully control, so hopefully she will refresh her parenting skills and stops dumping all the younger kids on the older buddies and starts spending more time with them - especially now that two J`slaves have left the compound.

I really like Josie for having that spark of life in her (pretty much how I prefer the Bates over the Duggars) and I used to see it in Joy and Jackson but then it all got squashed out of them. Hopefully the "miracle baby" that Michelle has a hard time saying no to will change the :penguin-no: family dynamic to Michelle giving the younger kids some slack and allow them to be kids for a while. Josie may have some slight developement issues but I really cant hate that kid. They may be editting it but Ive never seen her doing anything vile or disrespectfull and she always seems sweet to her older siblings. Disobeying Jill during playtime, wnadering off for a few seconds and then coming back when called is not a crime, its a normal kids behaviour. I see nothing inrtinsically wrong with her, its more like Michelle is looney and the other cult brainwashed kids seem sad and broken by comparison to Josie and that makes me sad.

[GotCaughtDancing]

I remember a few seasons back when Jenny was still quite little. They were all gathered at the dinning room table and talking about marriage. Jenny was having none of it. :lol: It didn't matter how they asked her if she was excited, or when, or couldn't wait her answer was no, I'm not getting married. Of course everyone else kept saying yes you will. They start that crap so young on these kids. Something tells me Jenny understands what is going on around her and she may be the one to leave or atleast not follow the rules.

I also think Josiah will leave, but might be the worst off. (snip)

[Nellie]

I think Jenni hates being around cameras. Other kids, like Mckynzie, somehow got sucked into it but Jenni really hates it. I also see Joseph, JD and James often giving WTF looks to camera, like all right I ll do this interview but I hate your guts

[SassyPants]

I do not understand why an over 18 yo, single man needs to have JB as his headship????

Isn't being an adult enough for a man? Why does adding a dependent woman change HIM? I think a man would be better prepared to care for a family IF he had been successfully providing for himself beforehand.

How is Ben more prepared for independence than Joe? Doesn't Ben work for Joe? Makes NO sense.

I think JD, Joe and Josiah all need to team up and tell JB that they are moving on (if that's what they want to do).

[Walking Cat Bed]

I do not understand why an over 18 yo, single man needs to have JB as his headship????

Isn't being an adult enough for a man? Why does adding a dependent woman change HIM? I think a man would be better prepared to care for a family IF he had been successfully providing for himself beforehand.

How is Ben more prepared for independence than Joe? Doesn't Ben work for Joe? Makes NO sense.

I think JD, Joe and Josiah all need to team up and tell JB that they are moving on (if that's what they want to do).

I like that idea, especially if they tell their of-age, unmarried sisters and give them the option of coming along. Several adult siblings sharing a smaller house and living as ADULTS would be abundantly better for all of them.

[SassyPants]

I like that idea, especially if they tell their of-age, unmarried sisters and give them the option of coming along. Several adult siblings sharing a smaller house and living as ADULTS would be abundantly better for all of them.

While I totally disagree with their stance on women, at least having them live at home until they find a suitable headship makes some sense per Gothardism. A woman needs a male owner, OK.[ But for the guys, they are going to be the leader...what are they waiting around Duggarville for? JD has multiple jobs (per JB)- why does he need to live at home under a headship?

Why did marrying Jessa automatically make Ben an adult leader, while JD, a working man 5.5 years Ben's senior, is viewed as a child in need of a headship?

I hate illogic.

[apandaaries]

I remember a few seasons back when Jenny was still quite little. They were all gathered at the dinning room table and talking about marriage. Jenny was having none of it. :lol: It didn't matter how they asked her if she was excited, or when, or couldn't wait her answer was no, I'm not getting married. Of course everyone else kept saying yes you will. They start that crap so young on these kids. Something tells me Jenny understands what is going on around her and she may be the one to leave or atleast not follow the rules.

I also think Josiah will leave, but might be the worst off. There are too many signs of something not going well with him & the duggar life plan. They send him off more and more. I think it's a lot more serious than what we get to see, but since we are not supposed to talk about the underage children living at home, I'll leave it at that.

I remember Jenny's absolute and utter rejection of marriage! That girl seems too smart for the ample BS her parents and older siblings provide; I think she can see right through that nonsense. She's far enough down the line that maybe she will be able to break away and live life on her own terms.

I also agree about Siah. We haven't seen much of him lately, but IIRC, he had a good sense of humor and was funny. Now he keeps getting sent off, and the vast majority of those camps/reprogramming institutions lack real oversight. I'm concerned that he's been sent off somewhere that may not have had a scandalous and preventable death YET, but comes pretty close to that line frequently (The Atlantic had something on "troubled teen" camps; no one keeps records of how many deaths occur in these types of camps -- link to non-fundie site not broken: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archi ... ar/375582/ ). A lot of those camps market themselves to parents who just don't want to deal with their kids and who can look at the experience from afar as "character building." I don't know for sure if ALERT is as bad as most others, but it would not surprise me whatsoever.

We already know he's not a favorite of JimBoob's...what does the future hold for Siah or any Howler who doesn't obey JimBoob or properly curry his favor? They don't have educations to fall back on; their lunatic parents control their money; they seem to spend a lot of time flopping around the house. They've already noticed that their dad won't be able to just keep giving houses away. It's sad to think of so many kids stuck in the middle and overlooked and ignored. Hopefully they can use that to their advantage and find some freedom for themselves.

[apandaaries]

While I totally disagree with their stance on women, at least having them live at home until they find a suitable headship makes some sense per Gothardism. A woman needs a male owner, OK.[ But for the guys, they are going to be the leader...what are they waiting around Duggarville for? JD has multiple jobs (per JB)- why does he need to live at home under a headship?

Why did marrying Jessa automatically make Ben an adult leader, while JD, a working man 5.5 years Ben's senior, is viewed as a child in need of a headship?

I hate illogic.

Don't be silly. It's the MAGIC HOLY SEX that turns them into adults. Nothing illogical about that. :cray-cray:

[LucyManettesForehead]

Re: Jana's personality and seeming beat down...

I definitely think she is more subdued than the others, probably for a variety of reasons (being the oldest girl and main sister-mom, possibly some squicky interactions with Gothard, though I dearly hope that is not the case), but I think she might also have more personality than we see in the show. Jana actually seems like a pretty fun person to me. The scene this season where she was trying on Jess'a bridesmaid's dress shows her giving a little bit of pushback and sarcasm, and I think that is probably closer to her true personality when she's around her sibs. She was already an adolescent when the cameras started rolling, and I don't think she (or JD) ever fully adjusted to TLC being there all the time. I think Jana has the best chance of being autonomous after the TLC gravy train dries up.

The middle kids, however, are probably screwed.

[VelociRapture]

Jana and Jenny tend to be the focus of a lot of concern on these forums and I understand why - Jana is the workhorse of the family and Jenny always seems so lost and sad.

My take:

Jana: I think that LucyManettesForehead is correct that Jana may not have ever been fully comfortable around the cameras. TLC came into their lives when she was a teenager, which can be a really impressionable time for most people. Around her siblings she probably seems a lot more lively and normal, but the camera may bring out the more reserved side of her personality. Maybe she just isn't comfortable opening herself up emotionally to the rest of the country.

Jenny: I'm guessing no one here is a Therapist and most therapists wouldn't attempt to diagnose someone they've never met in person anyways. I think it isn't really possible to diagnose her with depression or anything at this time. Like Jana, she may be much more reserved and stoic when the camera is around because she simply isn't comfortable. It's also possible that she is much more introverted than the rest of her family and the constant chaos is overwhelming for her. She has been seen smiling before, but that's usually when her person (Jill) is with her - so its possible that any recent changes in her personality are due to sadness over her Jill leaving. It's also possible that the traits she is exhibiting are simply because she is a developing child and that they are signs of normal development. My point is, every kid is different and depression is tough to diagnose in a child, so I think we should tread a bit carefully when discussing the possibility.

Side note: I was a very stoic and serious looking baby. . . at least according to the pictures my parents have of me. I rarely smiled at the camera as a baby for some reason, yet my mom and dad said I was a rather happy baby. I eventually outgrew that, but it is possible for a very young child to act more reserved or serious around a camera. Also, my dad never smiles in pictures - even in my sister's wedding photos! He was thrilled to be there and to see her get married, but he just never smiles for the camera (in fact, the only smiling pictures from that day are when we were joking around and when they did the father-daughter dance).

[Nellie]

I have a hope that all the four younger girls break free from the cult. Oh God what an insane family. JD gets a plane but he cat get his dad to fund his studies at a police academy. Instead he works in cinstruction. Jill has a hobby of helping midwives but doesnt even graduate after 3.5 years. Thats just ridicoulous.

[Bugaboo]

I feel for Jenny. I think she and Jordyn got the short end of the stick. Jenny looks so sad all the time. Although, I can see her being the one to stray from the fundie madness. She seems like the type that will be the one to leave on her own terms and live the life she wants to. By the time she is an adult, Michelle and Dim Bulb will be older and I don't see them caring nearly as much at that point in time...maybe they'll be too senile to remember their fundie beliefs. :P But, really, I think Josie being the "precious miracle" stole Jenny and Jordyn's thunder and their chances at any attention from mom and dad.

[Cleopatra7]

I feel for Jenny. I think she and Jordyn got the short end of the stick. Jenny looks so sad all the time. Although, I can see her being the one to stray from the fundie madness. She seems like the type that will be the one to leave on her own terms and live the life she wants to. By the time she is an adult, Michelle and Dim Bulb will be older and I don't see them caring nearly as much at that point in time...maybe they'll be too senile to remember their fundie beliefs. :P But, really, I think Josie being the "precious miracle" stole Jenny and Jordyn's thunder and their chances at any attention from mom and dad.

Sad to say, I don't think Jennifer or Jordyn would get any more attention, even if the pregnancy that produced Josie had had a normal outcome. Remember, Michelle's standard practice was to breastfeed for six months and then hand the baby off to a J'slave so she and JB could try for another baby. JB and Michelle simply aren't that interested in their children as individuals, and I would include Josie in that assessment. The only reason Michelle has spent more time with Josie is because she had to, not because she wanted to, and given that her parenting skills are questionable at best, it's unclear whether Josie has really benefited from these interactions. Her parents know Josie as the "miracle child," not as a unique person with her own likes and dislikes. They certainly won't be interacting with her or any of the other younger kids to find out who they are. Or put it another way, when you have a quiver full of arrows, the arrows are all supposed to be uniform or else they aren't useful for the archer. The goal is to have as many uniform arrows as possible. Similarly, when you follow the quiverfull mentality, quantity not quality is what matters.

[SassyPants]

Sad to say, I don't think Jennifer or Jordyn would get any more attention, even if the pregnancy that produced Josie had had a normal outcome. Remember, Michelle's standard practice was to breastfeed for six months and then hand the baby off to a J'slave so she and JB could try for another baby. JB and Michelle simply aren't that interested in their children as individuals, and I would include Josie in that assessment. The only reason Michelle has spent more time with Josie is because she had to, not because she wanted to, and given that her parenting skills are questionable at best, it's unclear whether Josie has really benefited from these interactions. Her parents know Josie as the "miracle child," not as a unique person with her own likes and dislikes. They certainly won't be interacting with her or any of the other younger kids to find out who they are. Or put it another way, when you have a quiver full of arrows, the arrows are all supposed to be uniform or else they aren't useful for the archer. The goal is to have as many uniform arrows as possible. Similarly, when you follow the quiverfull mentality, quantity not quality is what matters.

Exactly. This is why I think she'll have little interest in baby Dilly past the first few days of life. She just really isn't that interested in individuals...and this arrow does nothing for her/JB's personal quiver.

[Nellie]

I think that the fear of losing Baby Josie was what caused Michelle to focus a little bit more on her. We all remember in what pitifull condition the tiny thing was when she was born. If Michelle hadnt been around her 24/7 Josie would simply not have made it and losing a preenie on TV is too much even for the Duggars. But even then when Josie was little Michelle did not show herself as a decent parent. Instead of confining herself to home (and maybe spend some time with the toddler Jenni and Jordyn as well as Josie) and maybe slowing down the family dynamic a little, Michelle and JB were constantly going on all those crappy religious events, leaving baby Josie with and older J`slave or remember them going to Israel with Josie? And her getting sick? Thats what I call irresponcible parenting. My doctor actually stated that children under three should not be taken to hot countries across the globe (they may catch a cold/get sick very easily) and its best to take them on vacation in the same climate zone. And Im talking about my perfectly healthy kids! There is no way I would ever take a preenie with health issues on a plane to a different continent. They are both nuts and they have abused/neglected teach of their children in a different way. The only kid who probably got a healthy amount of attention was Josh and even he became a buddy at age 5 or smth.

P.S. When Josie gets old and sees episodes where Michelle changes her diaper in front of the camera she`ll hate her mom. And Josie pooped on camera a whole lot of times. Ugh.

[SassyPants]

I think that the fear of losing Baby Josie was what caused Michelle to focus a little bit more on her. We all remember in what pitifull condition the tiny thing was when she was born. If Michelle hadnt been around her 24/7 Josie would simply not have made it and losing a preenie on TV is too much even for the Duggars. But even then when Josie was little Michelle did not show herself as a decent parent. Instead of confining herself to home (and maybe spend some time with the toddler Jenni and Jordyn as well as Josie) and maybe slowing down the family dynamic a little, Michelle and JB were constantly going on all those crappy religious events, leaving baby Josie with and older J`slave or remember them going to Israel with Josie? And her getting sick? Thats what I call irresponcible parenting. My doctor actually stated that children under three should not be taken to hot countries across the globe (they may catch a cold/get sick very easily) and its best to take them on vacation in the same climate zone. And Im talking about my perfectly healthy kids! There is no way I would ever take a preenie with health issues on a plane to a different continent. They are both nuts and they have abused/neglected teach of their children in a different way. The only kid who probably got a healthy amount of attention was Josh and even he became a buddy at age 5 or smth.

P.S. When Josie gets old and sees episodes where Michelle changes her diaper in front of the camera she`ll hate her mom. And Josie pooped on camera a whole lot of times. Ugh.

I think Josie has gotten more attention because she required more attention. In addition, there were no children born after her. Pretty simple, really.

I have thought about this for a long time. The only kids that actually seem like they had any hands on parenting and who seem to have the most skills are the oldest 4- and Jill is rather iffy.

Josh and JD are handy- they can easily drive the bus. They just seem a bit more well rounded.

Jana, hands down, is the most skilled of the group. You can tell that she may have been a better mother to the group than Michelle. I could see Jana in the work place. She appears tenacious and affable as well. Good traits for a worker.

Jill seems like a person who followed verbal instructions well. Not skilled like Jana, but maybe the gopher of the group.

Plus, JD, Jana and Jill have each had the "volunteer" and community jobs.

What has Jessa ever done? She did work in the coffee shop one day.

And Jinger- why doesn't have a small business on the side? She could be making money (HEAR THAT JB, MONEY).

I think this is just the perfect illustration of why most couples do not have more than 3-4 kids...it becomes no longer manageable, especially if the parents both inherited the lazy gene.

I just wonder if JB and M would be much more pleasant people if they had stopped at a manageable number?