Which kid will be the worst off in the end?

[Daisy0322]

To me it seems lime Jenny is showing the most signs of emotional scarring. Some little kids are serious but she is serious in a way that seems like she has no spirt left in her.

[Nic]

I think if the show got cancelled, you'd see these guys on the road a lot more on speaking engagements, trotting out the kids and their violins to make up for the loss of cash. There would be a lot more hustling. I don't see them saying, well that was nice, back to a nice private life with our cellphone tower income.

I also wonder about the young girls, not only will they have parents that have had to beat down/get beat down by 14 kids before them, but unlike the older ones, they won't have any siblings that they need to be responsible for raising. Also, is Jchelle gonna step in and be their homeschool teacher again like she did before the first set was old enough to take over?

[Meloncollie]

I actually don't think Josie is as developmentally behind as many people on FJ seem to think. Did anyone hear her sing the star spangled banner? She got all the words right, and sang the entire thing on key. Probably perfectly. She's quick, pretty verbal and articulate (for a five year old) and seems to remember things.

There is something wrong with Jenny that goes beyond just shyness. She would be the one I"d say is developmentally delayed. She's eight, and does not come across as all that bright...

The show has been going on for ten years, and any one of them who has been affected would have had a meltdown already. Josiah maybe? But I'm sure it's been dealt with off camera, and we viewers will never know.

After the show... I think the kids will be OK emotionally. 19KAC is not Honey Boo Boo. There is no one star. None of the kids seem to be super brats resulting from being the center of attention on TV. Jim and Michelle are quite grounded in their faith, and the family has something to fall back on when the show ends. However, I will say that because of the money TLC pays, the children have gotten used to an upper middle class lifestyle (wedding registries, big houses, iPhones and foreign travel), but their home education is not preparing them for careers that will support such a lifestyle - no college, military, or professional certifications. That is a problem, and J/M need to step it up with the younger ones and teach them to do more than just marry and start micro businesses....

[jarona]

For the boys, I think Josiah will be the one who will be the worst off. I don't think Jim-Bob "likes" him that much. Maybe he sees a challenging personality for the future, but I truly think as Josiah gets older, there's going to be some serious arguments and head-butting between them. I hope he gets away from them sooner than later.

As far as the girls go, well--I honestly think Jana will be worst off in the end. If she doesn't get out of there soon, she will be the family's "old maid spinster" sister, instead of an independent woman. I don't want her to be the one who as to go from taking care of the younger siblings to being the one who has to take care of Jim Bob and Michelle in their older years. That girl has suffered enough..and I think she's much more intelligent than Jill and Jessa.

Jill is the needy wife to Derrick--for now that's fine, but Derrick seems a bit more independent--he may wake up and smell the roses or the perfume of a more intelligent woman with a career at some point. Jessa is the complete bitchy sister of them all and will always be fine due to her narcissistic nature.

Josie--and please, I'm not being mean or nasty when I say this, I really, really think she has some special needs. I cannot pinpoint exactly, but if she were to attend a regular school, I'm sure she would need to be tested for some sort of disability. Even though I would say she would be worse off, she would remain the most spoiled child of them all, and could turn out to be a total wild child. JMHO>

[Nic]

I actually don't think Josie is as developmentally behind as many people on FJ seem to think. Did anyone hear her sing the star spangled banner? She got all the words right, and sang the entire thing on key. Probably perfectly. She's quick, pretty verbal and articulate (for a five year old) and seems to remember things.

There's something going on there with Josie. For example, on the sleepover episode she was being spoon fed. At her age, one would expect that not only would she be able to do it, but that she would WANT to do it-- especially around her peer sisters. Josie was happily being hand fed.

As for as infantalizing her, I can see her parents wanting to do this, but not the sistermoms. If she is being hand fed, it makes me wonder. If Josie were just being difficult, she was just going back home... Jill could've said fine, Josie, and then later told another sistermom when she was dropping her off that Josie didn't eat brekkies with the others.

[HarleyQuinn]

I actually don't think Josie is as developmentally behind as many people on FJ seem to think. Did anyone hear her sing the star spangled banner? She got all the words right, and sang the entire thing on key. Probably perfectly. She's quick, pretty verbal and articulate (for a five year old) and seems to remember things.

That's debatable. lol.

[Meloncollie]

re: Josie. Yes, I admit, the spoon feeding was odd... And the family probably does infantilize her. I agree with that.

But really listen to her in the .. whatever you call them, booth segments with Jordyn? She really does come across as kind of smart, verbally. Sure, not like a kid from NYC who goes to a $20,000 preschool and prattles on about dinosaurs non-stop, and who is on a track to go to Harvard someday like the rest of her family. No way, as Josie's family hasn't invested as much in her intellectual development. But for an average kid from the heartland, I'd say she's a typical five year old with a touch of ADHD, but definitely some potential smartitude. She remembers more than some of her older siblings.

And her singing? Seriously at five to not muck up the words to the Star Spangled Banner, or to read a teleprompter. Not bad. And her pitch really was good; she even hit the high belter notes which is also difficult to do at five. Have a listen again! She'd give Famy a run for her money in Nashville someday. :mrgreen:

things like holding a pencil, throwing a ball, I have no idea if she's met her milestones there, but the TV doesn't show that ...

[Four is Enough]

The jury might still be out on whether or not Josie is delayed. Infantilized, sure. Her parents still CALL her "baby Josie".. and I swear I've seen her eat on her own. Perhaps she's messy and unorganized, but perhaps she knows she can get away with wanting to be spoon fed and getting her way.. or perhaps Jill was trying to get the food portion of the party over in a hurry and was hurrying her.

If the family is encouraging her to act like a baby, (blowing kisses and whatnot) that is on them, and they should cut it out. I think I was harder on my youngest than I was on her brothers.. because I didn't want ANY of my kids acting like a baby, after they WERE babies.

[Nic]

re: Josie. Yes, I admit, the spoon feeding was odd... And the family probably does infantilize her. I agree with that.

But really listen to her in the .. whatever you call them, booth segments with Jordyn? She really does come across as kind of smart, verbally. Sure, not like a kid from NYC who goes to a $20,000 preschool and prattles on about dinosaurs non-stop, and who is on a track to go to Harvard someday like the rest of her family. No way, as Josie's family hasn't invested as much in her intellectual development. But for an average kid from the heartland, I'd say she's a typical five year old with a touch of ADHD, but definitely some potential smartitude. She remembers more than some of her older siblings.

And her singing? Seriously at five to not muck up the words to the Star Spangled Banner, or to read a teleprompter. Not bad. And her pitch really was good; she even hit the high belter notes which is also difficult to do at five. Have a listen again! She'd give Famy a run for her money in Nashville someday. :mrgreen:

things like holding a pencil, throwing a ball, I have no idea if she's met her milestones there, but the TV doesn't show that ...

Hey she could be Baby Einstein (ug Baby Josie does bug me too) and plotting the destruction of the rest of them, but I think there's some issues with her fine motor and gross motor skills. If you're playing the odds, micro preemies have issues later-- and not just her size which will catch up. Many issues can be corrected, I'm not trying to doom and gloom this kid, but I do worry that she is being compared to her siblings where Jchelle shrugs issues off with them all have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Most of kids like Josie work with speechies and OTs. I don't know if Josie has had the benefit (or needed to in the case of her speech, but speech is something people pick up on faster to sort) I don't see the Duggars ever mentioning it, not out of privacy for Baby Josie, but they don't want to make the Miracle Baby less than spectacular.

[MatthewDuggar]

I just hope they allow Josie to learn other songs than just the Star Spangled banner and Amazing Grace.

Praise the Lord she's finally out of the robotic blowing kisses phase they had her in for years.

[rodgerdodger]

Josie will be screwed with or without developmental delays. I think that having seizures and being a micropremie does stack the odds severely against her, but I also think that she has gotten far more one-on-one time with Michelle than any of the other kids. So part of me thinks that it counteracts some of the issues she may have developed.

She is going to be babied until the day Michelle and Boob die. I can either see her becoming like Prissy--not that bright, clearly has some issues, but gets married off anyway without realizing what is going on. Or she will be so babied that she will become the biggest brat and will put the kids from My Super Sweet Sixteen to shame.

The Lost Girls will watch as Josie gets babied forever as they are forgotten in that huge house of theirs. The thing is, the house is huge and can fit nineteen kids now, but when there are only four kids left, it's going to be hauntingly empty an very easy to get away with not having chaperons looking over your shoulder every minute.

[16strong]

I'm hoping Josie will become like Michelle- a rebel, but only this time in reverse. The irony would not be lost. :lol:

[eh02]

I know all the J'kids "sing" (I use that word loosely) but I wonder if they could actually use singing as a part of speech therapy for Josie? But then again, whoever is teaching Josie probably has no clue what they are doing, so I am probably getting too optimistic here.

She's too young to know if the talent will stick, but she definitely is an unusually talented singer for her age. I know the comment about giving Amy a run for her money was a joke, but honestly, Josie already sounds better than Amy. And Lawson Bates. Josie managed to sing a very difficult song while staying on key and hitting some impressive notes at 5 years old. Considering how many pros flub the National Anthem, I do have to admit I was impressed.

Amy (and Lawson) are average. A voice teacher could pick any random person off the street and give them a few lessons and end up with another Amy.

Music seems to be one of the very few fundie career-hobbies that are acceptable for women, so Josie might actually be able to pursue it. Unlike all the other girls with their unattainable dreams who were SOL :roll:

Anyway, at least the youngest kids will probably have an openly atheist or gay or divorced or [insert scandal] sibling by the time they're moving out. They'll probably get exposed to some things the oldest kids weren't. So hopefully they'll make it out OK.

[Fundie Bunny]

I know all the J'kids "sing" (I use that word loosely) but I wonder if they could actually use singing as a part of speech therapy for Josie? But then again, whoever is teaching Josie probably has no clue what they are doing, so I am probably getting too optimistic here.

She's too young to know if the talent will stick, but she definitely is an unusually talented singer for her age. I know the comment about giving Amy a run for her money was a joke, but honestly, Josie already sounds better than Amy. And Lawson Bates. Josie managed to sing a very difficult song while staying on key and hitting some impressive notes at 5 years old. Considering how many pros flub the National Anthem, I do have to admit I was impressed.

Amy (and Lawson) are average. A voice teacher could pick any random person off the street and give them a few lessons and end up with another Amy.

Music seems to be one of the very few fundie career-hobbies that are acceptable for women, so Josie might actually be able to pursue it. Unlike all the other girls with their unattainable dreams who were SOL :roll:

Anyway, at least the youngest kids will probably have an openly atheist or gay or divorced or [insert scandal] sibling by the time they're moving out. They'll probably get exposed to some things the oldest kids weren't. So hopefully they'll make it out OK.

If you are talking about the same video i am thinking, she was cute and hilarious, but definetly not impressive

[Meloncollie]

If you are talking about the same video i am thinking, she was cute and hilarious, but definetly not impressive

*this is my first time quoting - hope it works!!

There is a youtube clip that shows part of her song - two verses. Yeah, it doesn't give her singing justice.

However, on some kind of Duggar special, she sings the entire star spangled banner. It may be the extended version of the clip, or something entirely different. There, she nailed it and hit all the notes and got all the words, of course in the Duggar kid accent where they don't quite say all their R's.

okay, confession - I messed up the SSB when I was about five. Instead of "the bombs bursting" I sang ... wait for it... "gay bombs." I think the adults in my family would make me perform it and they'd laugh their asses off...

I don't think I can double quote, but someone else said music is an acceptable fundie career for women - I agree. Who knows; maybe Josie might develop this talent if given the opportunity. I would be that the family will encourage this in some way. With her energy, i'd give her drumsticks, not a violin! :wink-kitty:

[calimojo]

I was impressed by her singing as well. That is a notoriously hard song to sing and she did well. It was obvious that she had done it many many times. As it had a rote sort of feeling, but she definitely stayed in tune very well for a 5 year old. She may have a natural 'ear'. Or she may be one of those people with perfect pitch. My mom has that. She has had it her whole life. She comes for a fairly musical family, but no one else has perfect pitch in the family except for her.

I think Josie is behind, developmentally, but I don't know if it is because of her prematurity or because of her environment. Her speech, as well as Jordyn's seems behind to me, and if her recent demonstration of counting to 10 on her fingers is representative of her abilty that is very behind. Most kids are able to count to 10 at much younger ages, and without relying on their fingers.

I suspect Josie is behind, mostly from lack of attention to her education and work towards milestones.

[Cleopatra7]

Josie will be screwed with or without developmental delays. I think that having seizures and being a micropremie does stack the odds severely against her, but I also think that she has gotten far more one-on-one time with Michelle than any of the other kids. So part of me thinks that it counteracts some of the issues she may have developed.

She is going to be babied until the day Michelle and Boob die. I can either see her becoming like Prissy--not that bright, clearly has some issues, but gets married off anyway without realizing what is going on. Or she will be so babied that she will become the biggest brat and will put the kids from My Super Sweet Sixteen to shame.

The Lost Girls will watch as Josie gets babied forever as they are forgotten in that huge house of theirs. The thing is, the house is huge and can fit nineteen kids now, but when there are only four kids left, it's going to be hauntingly empty an very easy to get away with not having chaperons looking over your shoulder every minute.

I don't see Josie getting spoiled as she gets older, simply due to the restrictions on her life. She's not going to be getting a sports car when she turns sixteen or get to go to an expensive private college. It doesn't seem like the younger Duggar children have ever had very many toys, whether in the pre-TLC days or the present, so she's not being spoiled materially. Unless JB and Michelle have "Come to the :fsm:" moment and completely change how they live, Josie is going to end up like her sisters: poorly educated and married to a man-child with a "strong testimony" and not much else.

While it's true she's being babied because she's the youngest and because of her rough beginning and (possibly) fragile health, I doubt that will last simply because she's growing up. Also, while she may get more attention from JB and Michelle, I don't think it's the right kind of attention. She's feted because she's the "miracle child" and poster girl for the pro-life cause, not because of who she actually is. I don't think that JB and Michelle know anything about Josie as a person, except maybe her birthday, as is the case with the other kids; neither of the J'parents are going to get down on the floor and play with Josie and the other little girls, because that's not their style. Josie most likely looks to Jana and possibly Jill to a lesser extent as her primary caretakers while Michelle is just off doing whatever it is that she does.

[morri]

have you seen the latest pic of jenny? she looks so sullen, I was like that as a teenager, either shes really depressed or she is of hih intelligence and cany wait to get the heck out there.

[snickerz]

I also worry more for the older children who were directly exposed to Gothard and those within his circle. Hopefully none of them had any harmful experiences involving him and his indiscretions.

I actually have wondered about this. Jana specifically. :?

[apandaaries]

I actually have wondered about this. Jana specifically. :?

I have that same horrible worry.

[nataraja]

have you seen the latest pic of jenny? she looks so sullen, I was like that as a teenager, either shes really depressed or she is of hih intelligence and cany wait to get the heck out there.

No, I haven't seen it. Can you please tell us where we can find it?

[ILoveJellybeans]

I have that same horrible worry.

Same here :( Jana is the oldest girl that I worry for the most, cause she just seems so submissive, broken and unable to speak up for herself. The others are pretty screwed from their shitty upbringing, but they have stronger personalities than poor Jana. I really hope nothing happened to her :(

[apandaaries]

Same here :( Jana is the oldest girl that I worry for the most, cause she just seems so submissive, broken and unable to speak up for herself. The others are pretty screwed from their shitty upbringing, but they have stronger personalities than poor Jana. I really hope nothing happened to her :(

One of the biggest hints is that the Duggars say Jana used to be like JoyAnna -- funny and spirited. JoyAnna definitely looks more subdued these days, now that her sister mom tasks have increased...but she's still nowhere near as beaten down as Jana. How many times did JimBoob and Mullet send her off to Gothard institutions? And let's imagine how many times they said that God had "laid it on their hearts" that she go? Whatever happens at those places is clearly designed to stamp out independent thought and enforce absolute obedience (we miss you, Siah!), but Jana seems crushed. Whatever we know about Gothard is only the tip of the iceberg; this isn't a culture that encourages women to speak out, but it is a culture which blames victims for their perpetrator's offences. I don't know if she has a servant's heart, but she definitely seems like a servant now -- and her family treats her as one.

[Imagine20]

My thoughts on Josh is that he was a big fish in a little pond before he and Anna moved to DC and that's why he was arrogant as hell. Here, you can't throw a stone without hitting a lawyer. I think it was after he started getting settled into his new job that he realized just how under educated he is. He can't talk politics, the major upcoming Supreme Court decisions, or anything else that pops up regularly in conversations. He's only there to be a face for fundraising purposes. As soon as the show is gone, he'll be gone, too. He's a one trick pony and he knows it. Anna, I think, is blissfully unaware in Mommyville.

I think it might be a blessing for the middle kids to be overlooked. They can skate by, and hopefully have their own opinions about life and how they want their family to be. If the show is cancelled and they see what a time Jessa and Ben have (as 2 people with zero skills trying to pay bills), maybe they'll be assertive enough at 18 to try to make a different life for themselves.

[zz22zz]

One of my dearest friends is number 9 of 12 (and his mom had stillborns, miscarriages and one baby die under age one, that some would consider it out of a higher number). His family is not fundie, as far as I can tell not even religious at all.

He was raised by two sister moms, who had to take him on dates no less, flat out says he likes his parents but they don't know him very well. His family lived in a tiny two bedroom house and were very poor. He started working a national retailer at 17 and has been there ever since (over 30 years). He credits his sisters and friends families for him turning out well in life. He does love his parents though.

At least in his family the oldest are the worst off, they are the most like their parents, all have over 7 kids and have struggled. The youngest three never got enough direct parent involvement to even begin to know how to be the same kind of odd/crazy as their parents.

His mom is Michelle for sure, when I first met her I told her she should be proud of raising such a great son and that he was an outstanding friend and person. She looked at me like I was speaking a language she didn't understand and just said "he's a good boy" all wide eyed. His dad was more down to earth but I asked why they had so many kids and he just said "they kept coming didn't have time to consider anything different", and this man worked 4 jobs to support them! Oh boy....

So I think the youngest 1/3 will fair the best in the long run...especially with JB and JC distracted by oodles of grandchildren and worrying that one of the marrieds will go fundie light or divorce etc... plus the lost girls could easily go live with one of their siblings for months at a time to "help" and be exposed to another environment/ city with next to no parental influence.