OMG, Botkins are giving it away for free!

[Marian the Librarian]

My favorite moment, courtesy of a righteously indignant Ben: "To all the people who claim a perpetual childishness runs in the family, I've got two words: grow up." :roll:

[VVV]

They must be getting desperate..."Homeschool Dropouts," the documentary the seven Botkin sibs made in 2009 - all 57 minutes, absolutely free.

The usual brain-herniating Botkin bloviation. Public schools are "statist indoctrination centers." Isaac says they were home-educated so they could become "the world's leading scientists, statesmen, church leaders..." (the hyperbolic apple never falls far from the tree).

Lots of crazy zombified eyes and I-just-got-out-of-bed hair. Cameo appearances by Nattie Darnell, Kevin Swanson, John Moore, David Noor. And really, really bad synthesized background music.

And Audri talks about giving up on the idea of pursuing a degree in cello performance, because homeschooling, and pride. :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

facebook.com/westernconservatory

I got curious about Audri, so I did a little googling. She appears to have made the Texas All-State Philharmonic for two years in a row--making All-State in Texas is a big accomplishment, but Philharmonic is the second orchestra. (The top 16 cellists went into the first orchestra.) In other words, she was very good but she was by no means a superstar. She most likely could have pursued a degree in cello performance, probably not from a Juilliard-level school, but perhaps from a second- or third-tier conservatory. It is vanishingly unlikely that she would have ever attained the musical heights that she seemed to assume could have been hers in the video; at best, she might have had a shot at a position in a third-tier orchestra. More likely, she would have joined the legions of other well-educated cellists piecing together a living from private students and freeway philharmonic gigs. Still, it would have been an infinitely better life than marrying into the Botkins. What a waste.

Sorry for the music nerd digression. It fascinates me how small the homeschool world can be, and how delusional.

[starfish]

Yep - it's Night of the Living Stepford Children, for sure - really made me feel alternately squirmy and angry. Fast-forward to today, and while three of the sons have married and produced (at last count) four "future Botkin men," per one Facebook commenter, A-S and E are doing...what, exactly??

:lol:

Night of the Living Stepford Children......lol

how appropriate

[starfish]

I think A-S and E are busy shaving dad's beard and generally not getting married

[FaustianSlip]

I'm watching it now. Don't think I'm going to last very long before I abandon this silliness to watch Star Trek, though. About fifteen minutes in, my first thought is to wonder why this is a video at all? So far, it's been about ninety percent shots of the Botkin offspring wandering around in cacti and sagebrush, with occasional shots of interviewees in rustic-y homes. They could've made a podcast for a fraction of whatever it cost to film this, and we wouldn't have had to watch the Botkin boys' collective awkwardness or the oldest one trying to flick the sleeves of his jacket down every time he was on camera.

[salex]

You made it 15 minutes? I killed it far sooner. Maybe later or if there were a drinking game involved.

[FaustianSlip]

The whole thing is so insane, I kind of can't stop watching. One guy just tried to claim that the persecution of Christians in ancient Rome was over their opposition to the "public school system." Lolwut?

He also claimed that Christians in ancient Rome were burned at the stake, which again... no. If this guy's grasp of history is what homeschooling get you, I'm out. I also love how David Noor is really obviously reading every single thing he's saying. Hilarious.

[Rhetorica]

So I'm about 18 minutes into the video, and as something of a home school drop-out myself, it strikes me that this is exactly the kind of video that my devout father, so disappointed in his children's choices, would eagerly soak up. So even though the Botkins appear to be addressing the drop-outs, it'll be the parents who will actually buy a DVD like this and love it because it totally lets them off the hook. It's exactly what they want to tell us.

My sister who is involved in a fairly conservative home school co-op reports that the parents there (all first generation except for her) are convinced they can avoid all the problems of home school pioneers whose children have become drop-outs. Their secret weapon? To be more strict, more sheltered, more restrictive. I suppose they think they've invented sex too.

[hoipolloi]

Psst - Isaac Botkin: Brylcreem - a little dab'll do ya!

[bBvideo 560,340:2nx5hla5][/bBvideo]

[SoGladIWasCofE]

I can't find a free copy, can someone point me in the right direction? I need a good laugh right now.

[PearlKrabs]

I'm watching it now. Don't think I'm going to last very long before I abandon this silliness to watch Star Trek, though. About fifteen minutes in, my first thought is to wonder why this is a video at all? So far, it's been about ninety percent shots of the Botkin offspring wandering around in cacti and sagebrush, with occasional shots of interviewees in rustic-y homes. They could've made a podcast for a fraction of whatever it cost to film this, and we wouldn't have had to watch the Botkin boys' collective awkwardness or the oldest one trying to flick the sleeves of his jacket down every time he was on camera.

ITA. Interviewing yourself and your like-minded friends does not count as a documentary. I thought of a podcast too, but what if they had tried a little harder at this?

Some easy ideas: Make the (bullshit) stats you're citing into a graph. Some shots of kids doing schoolwork at the dinner table. Shots of school buses lined up outside of a school. Interview someone who has 'lost a child' to secular thinking.

No, I'd much rather listen to a twelve-year-old tell me I've let my parents down.

[CelticGoddess]

Give it away

Give it away

Give it away now

Give it away

Give it away

Give it away now

Give it away

Give it away

Give it away now

How come everybody

wanna keep it like the Kaiser?

Never mind me. Just singing something the Robotkins would never approve of. Damn, it's good to be a heathen!

:character-beavisbutthead:

I love you! RHCP are my heros

[DomWackTroll]

The whole thing is so insane, I kind of can't stop watching. One guy just tried to claim that the persecution of Christians in ancient Rome was over their opposition to the "public school system." Lolwut?

He also claimed that Christians in ancient Rome were burned at the stake, which again... no. If this guy's grasp of history is what homeschooling get you, I'm out. I also love how David Noor is really obviously reading every single thing he's saying. Hilarious.

His darting eyes and nervous tics really add to the feeling of paranoia. Um... Good job, I guess?

[twin2]

Give it away

Give it away

Give it away now

Give it away

Give it away

Give it away now

Give it away

Give it away

Give it away now

How come everybody

wanna keep it like the Kaiser?

Never mind me. Just singing something the Robotkins would never approve of. Damn, it's good to be a heathen!

:character-beavisbutthead:

Currently attempting to picture the two Robobotkinettes in their room rockin' out to the Chili Peppers, flinging their hair around singing into their hairbrushes....

[FaustianSlip]

It was bizarre to watch. I was so busy trying to figure out what was wrong with him that I couldn't concentrate at all on what he was saying. Looking more closely, there are several other spots where the interview subjects appear to be reading lines- they just do a slightly better job of masking it.

[Joan of Snarc]

Currently attempting to picture the two Robobotkinettes in their room rockin' out to the Chili Peppers, flinging their hair around singing into their hairbrushes....

Pretty sure the music video for Give it Away would be their very idea of hell.

:lol:

I'd love to force them to watch it.

:twisted:

See Robotkinettes, THIS is entertainment. That dreck you and your dick biologist Dad put out, not so much. Is what I'd say.

:stir-pot:

[salex]

Boy, I am giving it another try. So far they have spent 5 minutes telling me that they are going to lecture me soon.... way to make me anticipate pain.

I had a co-worker who, along with his wife, had been sent to religious boarding schools. Both swore they would never send their kids to boarding school. They sent their kids to public school, made a point of spending as much time as possible with them on weekends, etc.

Second Generation changes often are in response to failures the second generation felt and saw in the methods of the generation ahead of them.

[salex]

OK, I made it to nearly 20 minutes and can't stand it any more. I never even heard of these people before I came here. I could honestly care less what any of them think, and frankly their 6 year old video is so freaking condescending "I have noticed the sins in my life and the lives of my peers."

I suspect that they would all be better off if they had to find real jobs and the western conservatory failed. Do any of the men have non ministry jobs?

[Sobeknofret]

Does anybody but me think Daddy Botkin is going to marry off one of those girls to David Noor?

[defraudingjezebel]

OK, I made it to nearly 20 minutes and can't stand it any more. I never even heard of these people before I came here. I could honestly care less what any of them think, and frankly their 6 year old video is so freaking condescending "I have noticed the sins in my life and the lives of my peers."

I suspect that they would all be better off if they had to find real jobs and the western conservatory failed. Do any of the men have non ministry jobs?

I'm in total agreement with you. I'm about 28 minutes in and its SO funny how they try to walk the line between condemning people and condemning themselves. They always say, "our sins... etc., etc." but you can tell they mean, "THEIR sins." Its so disingenuous. You know their daddy wrote the script and put them up to this.

I should do a "dominion" count for this video. So! Many! Times!!! It doesn't even sound like a real word anymore.

[ViolaSebastian]

I think I've figured out what's so stilted and weird about it. It's very clear and obvious that even the interviewees are poorly reading a crappy script, probably written by none other than Daddykins Botkin. It would have been more natural if they were given the "big idea" and then were able to put it into their own words.

I'm a bit confused about the "state propaganda trucks" that the young Japanese woman was talking about. I know there are Uyoku dantai that drive around propaganda trucks, but those are just political parties, not the government.

[eh02]

Oh FFS. These people. :snooty:

LOVE the idea of homeschooling creating the world's leading scientists or engineers. Just you and mom, sitting at the kitchen table, discovering a new class of antibiotics. Or building a commercial aircraft. Typical homeschool curriculum. Happens all the time.

What? You thought you needed field training, and a team of professional collaborators, and access to an immense body of knowledge that's taken human beings hundreds of years to compile? Just to do a spinal fusion? Just to build a simple skyscraper?!

Joke's on us! Should have just been homeschooled! :roll:

[Marian the Librarian]

Oh FFS. These people. :snooty:

LOVE the idea of homeschooling creating the world's leading scientists or engineers. Just you and mom, sitting at the kitchen table, discovering a new class of antibiotics. Or building a commercial aircraft. Typical homeschool curriculum. Happens all the time.

What? You thought you needed field training, and a team of professional collaborators, and access to an immense body of knowledge that's taken human beings hundreds of years to compile? Just to do a spinal fusion? Just to build a simple skyscraper?!

Joke's on us! Should have just been homeschooled! :roll:

Not to mention the orthodontist(s) who had the education, training, and experience to correct Ben's pronounced underbite. Whoever they were, they did a good job - and they didn't go to home dental school!

[calimojo]

I can't sit through that whole thing, but honestly, if you have 2nd generations leaving the movement in droves, isn't it just possible that the movement was never all that worthy to begin with? If these kids had a wonderful experience when homeschooled and found wonderful careers, then I doubt they would be leaving. Instead they would be the biggest champions of Homeschooling

[Marian the Librarian]

Isaac himself weighs in on his Facebook page:

Want to watch Homeschool Dropouts for free? It's been five years since we made it, and it's interesting to look back on what folks thought was coming for the second generation. You can see the whole thing here:

Jeremiah J Warren: What are your thoughts on it 5 years later?

Isaac Botkin: The film or the movement? I'm pretty happy with our conclusion and predictions in the script - in fact, a lot of folks who thought we were being too harsh are now writing similar things. I'm less happy with the tone; I think we could have done better. And it was our first project shot on the 5D, so color correction could be better too.