Evangelicals with gay children challenging church

[doggie]

I am not sure I have much sympathy for these christians as they drove their child to death with their relentless need to change him but at least they are doing something now.

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_289563/conten ... d=ZzOtacwn

Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians.

When their 12-year-old son Ryan said he was gay, they told him they loved him, but he had to change. He entered "reparative therapy," met regularly with his pastor and immersed himself in Bible study and his church youth group. After six years, nothing changed. A despondent Ryan cut off from his parents and his faith, started taking drugs and in 2009, died of an overdose.

"Now we realize we were so wrongly taught," said Rob Robertson, a firefighter for more than 30 years who lives in Redmond, Washington. "It's a horrible, horrible mistake the church has made."

The tragedy could have easily driven the Robertsons from the church. But instead of breaking with evangelicalism - as many parents in similar circumstances have done - the couple is taking a different approach, and they're inspiring other Christians with gay children to do the same. They are staying in the church and, in protesting what they see as the demonization of their sons and daughters, presenting a new challenge to Christian leaders trying to hold off growing acceptance of same-sex relationships.

"Parents don't have anyone on their journey to reconcile their faith and their love for their child," said Linda Robertson, who with Rob attends a nondenominational evangelical church. "They either reject their child and hold onto their faith, or they reject their faith and hold onto their child. Rob and I think you can do both: be fully affirming of your faith and fully hold onto your child."

It's not clear how much of an impact these parents can have. Evangelicals tend to dismiss fellow believers who accept same-sex relationships as no longer Christian. The parents have only recently started finding each other online and through faith-oriented organizations for gays and lesbians such as the Gay Christian Network, The Reformation Project and The Marin Foundation.

But Linda Robertson, who blogs about her son at justbecausehebreathes.com, said a private Facebook page she started last year for evangelical mothers of gays has more than 300 members. And in the last few years, high-profile cases of prominent Christian parents embracing their gay children indicate a change is occurring beyond a few isolated families.

[Becket70]

I really cannot understand how they can say that a Christian who accepts homosexuality cannot be a real Christian. I despise how they seem to assign no value to a person who is gay. I wish they would take their heads out of their collective you know whats and go see "The Imitation Game" at the movies this weekend. It has been said that Alan Turing saved thousands of lives by shortening the war through his work. I would say he had a value despite being gay.

[doggie]

Sometimes I think sex is the most important thing in a fundies life

[Minim]

I have tons of sympathy for these parents. They learned a lesson in the hardest way imaginable and will hopefully use their hard-won empathy to help someone else. Sadly, none of that will bring their son back.

[calimojo]

Sometimes I think sex is the most important thing in a fundies life

I think you are right on the money with this one. The spend so much time and energy trying to control how they and others should feel or behave when it comes to sex, that they have truly perverted the whole meaning of Christianity.

Love and forgiveness are the basics of Christianity. While Paul and some others may have written some things about sex, it is just a small part of the bible as a whole. And the language that the bible was originally written in, did not even have a word for homosexuality. The bible warned against sexual perversion, but as homosexuality, as a word or equivalent word, did not exist then, it is also just as likely that the bible meant to warn about the lonely shepherds getting it on with a wanton and seductive sheep.

It wasn't until the bible was translated repeatedly from the ancient languages that the meaning began to include homosexuality as sinful.

It seems as if the fundie version of Christianity is all about the right kind of sex, pro-life and rigid gender roles. And it seems as if very little else matters. The homeschooling, the insular lifestyle, are aimed at protecting children from wrong sex, impure sex, fluid gender roles and ideas and knowledge about family planning, limiting the number of children a woman has, etc.

I have no doubt the crazy people who have started this modern day fundamentalism were probably twisted sisters privately and subconsciously felt this would help them control their own urges. Of course, we have seen what happens when those same sick F***s get some power and following; they just molest and abuse those less powerful than them.

[doggie]

I have tons of sympathy for these parents. They learned a lesson in the hardest way imaginable and will hopefully use their hard-won empathy to help someone else. Sadly, none of that will bring their son back.

well yes but first they killed their child. Their faith was more important. and yes they have changed but they are still using their faith to do what they want to do. Even though they changed their faith they may still be used to show how gay is bad.

[LongDogMom]

I really cannot understand how they can say that a Christian who accepts homosexuality cannot be a real Christian. I despise how they seem to assign no value to a person who is gay. I wish they would take their heads out of their collective you know whats and go see "The Imitation Game" at the movies this weekend. It has been said that Alan Turing saved thousands of lives by shortening the war through his work. I would say he had a value despite being gay.

I agree totally! I know many gay men who are absolutely the most wonderful and kind people who are doing so much good in the world. How can they just be so hateful citing the Bible? There are tons of things in the Bible that people ignore. They don't stone people anymore or avoid wearing mixed fabrics, and what about how women are supposed to stay silent in church and have their hair covered? There are tons and tons of these kinds of "rules" that most Christians, including fundies, choose to ignore, but they use the Bible as defence for hating homosexuality and basically say they can't accept it because in the Bible it's an abomination.

These people pick and choose what parts of the Bible they want to follow literally and I think their intolerance of homosexuality is just an excuse to hate, using their Faith as justification. Such hypocrites!!

What about making the world a better place through kindness, tolerance, striving to learn about and respect others cultures?

[browncoatslytherin]

I have tons of sympathy for these parents. They learned a lesson in the hardest way imaginable and will hopefully use their hard-won empathy to help someone else. Sadly, none of that will bring their son back.

i can't help but feel for them, too. while they chose to treat their son the way they did, they did it because that's what their pastor/spiritual leader/fellow church members said they were supposed to do. that's what they were told was the norm in handling something like that. they trusted them, like one would trust a doctor in handling a diagnosis, and they paid a heavy price for it. i can't speak for these parents, but my parents - my mother especially - was brainwashed.

my parents also experienced something almost similar. when my brother came out, they severely limited my exposure to him and even their contact with him. when he refused to "repent", they completely shunned him. it really broke my mother's heart, she spent endless nights crying and praying, but she believed it was what she was supposed to do. she devoured books by barbara johnson, desperately searching for peace in her decision. she never really got any until years later, when she finally was able to break out of the brainwashed, fundamental shell and reconcile with my brother. this mother, however, will never get to experience that. i only hope that in this young man's death, other children and young adults won't have to suffer through the rejection he experienced.

i understand if other members have no sympathy for them. but, in my personal experience of seeing the other side, of how my brother wasn't just simply "written off" but was cried and agonized over, i can't help but feel a twinge of sympathy for them. it also just shows how dangerous and manipulative this religion can be, forcing parents to choose between their children and their faith at times. it's not just devastating and harmful for the children, but also for the adults who are being told by sources they trust that what they're doing is right and it's the best thing for their children. and when, of course, it doesn't turn out the way that they're told it should, a moment of faith crisis...why didn't it happen the way it was supposed to? i trusted this pastor/spiritual leader, i prayed, i gave it to god, why didn't it work? my mother didn't leave christianity, but she is definitely very liberal in her faith compared to before.

[doggie]

i can't help but feel for them, too. while they chose to treat their son the way they did, they did it because that's what their pastor/spiritual leader/fellow church members said they were supposed to do. that's what they were told was the norm in handling something like that. they trusted them, like one would trust a doctor in handling a diagnosis, and they paid a heavy price for it. i can't speak for these parents, but my parents - my mother especially - was brainwashed.

So as long as someone told them it was good it is good? remember all of the fundamentalist Christians that used that excuse and let their sick children die. I do have some sympathy for them but they tortured their child for many years and only felt remorse after the fact.

[browncoatslytherin]

So as long as someone told them it was good it is good? remember all of the fundamentalist Christians that used that excuse and let their sick children die. I do have some sympathy for them but they tortured their child for many years and only felt remorse after the fact.

i'm not saying it was an excuse. you may want to re-read my entire post that detailed the pain and anguish my mother experienced as she shunned her only son, as she was told to do, as she was told that's what was right, that's what god wanted her to do, that's what would get my brother to turn back to god. yes, they shouldn't have listened to what they were told. but brainwashing and manipulation doesn't always allow for thought processing beyond that, and that can be hard to understand for everyone, so i understand if you think that. it's always sad when people suffer because of the spiritual abuse being perpetuated in some congregations.

[August]

I have tons of sympathy for these parents. They learned a lesson in the hardest way imaginable and will hopefully use their hard-won empathy to help someone else. Sadly, none of that will bring their son back.

I don't. They chose hating him over loving him. I'm just sorry he died from their shitty, evil, horrible parenting.

[doggie]

i'm not saying it was an excuse. you may want to re-read my entire post that detailed the pain and anguish my mother experienced as she shunned her only son, as she was told to do, as she was told that's what was right, that's what god wanted her to do, that's what would get my brother to turn back to god. yes, they shouldn't have listened to what they were told. but brainwashing and manipulation doesn't always allow for thought processing beyond that, and that can be hard to understand for everyone, so i understand if you think that. it's always sad when people suffer because of the spiritual abuse being perpetuated in some congregations.

I don't think you can claim brain washing unless they kept on doing what they were doing after it happened. but even then it is not true brain washing it is just faith over reality.

[browncoatslytherin]

I don't think you can claim brain washing unless they kept on doing what they were doing after it happened. but even then it is not true brain washing it is just faith over reality.

and i don't think you can claim someone hasn't been brainwashed and manipulated just because they break free of it. i did it. my mother did it. it took time, it took things happening that were very unpleasant. but we did it. was it simply faith over reality for us? not at all. we were brainwashed, manipulated, and spiritually abused for years.

looking back, imo, reality should always be put above what a person is being told. it's only logical, obviously. and it's frustrating when certain people deny reality because all i can think of is, "c'mon, it's so OBVIOUS. DUH. how can you not see this??" but i remember how i was when i was steeped in the church. i remember how my mother was, my whole family. and if you look at how everyone is today, we are all very different than, say, 20 years ago. some of us a complete 180.

obviously, you don't agree with me on this. i really don't know what more to say at this point in the conversation, because i'm going off of personal experiences, things i've been through and witnessed for myself. i can't show you what we went through, i can't make you feel what i felt or see what i thought. there's no real way to source experience, unfortunately.

[FloraKitty35]

They reaped what they sowed, but if they can prevent others from doing the same to their LGBT children than there is some glimmer of good to come out of this.

[FloraDoraDolly]

So as long as someone told them it was good it is good? remember all of the fundamentalist Christians that used that excuse and let their sick children die. I do have some sympathy for them but they tortured their child for many years and only felt remorse after the fact.

These parents were probably told over and over and over again that their son would burn in Hell for all eternity unless he changed. Many Christians believe in a literal Hell and they believe that most people will be sent there. Even born-again Christians, with encouragement from their religious leaders, often have deep doubts as to whether or not they were REALLY saved. These parents most likely believed that their gay son couldn't possibly be saved. I mean, think about it for a minute. No parent wants their kid to get burned by the kitchen stove, let alone to be thrown into a lake of fire where he will suffer constant pain forever and ever and ever. And if the parents accepted their son unconditionally, then they were probably told that they couldn't be "really, truly saved" either. Therefore, they were going to Hell also.

[doggie]

These parents were probably told over and over and over again that their son would burn in Hell for all eternity unless he changed. Many Christians believe in a literal Hell and they believe that most people will be sent there. Even born-again Christians, with encouragement from their religious leaders, often have deep doubts as to whether or not they were REALLY saved. These parents most likely believed that their gay son couldn't possibly be saved. I mean, think about it for a minute. No parent wants their kid to get burned by the kitchen stove, let alone to be thrown into a lake of fire where he will suffer constant pain forever and ever and ever. And if the parents accepted their son unconditionally, then they were probably told that they couldn't be "really, truly saved" either. Therefore, they were going to Hell also.

but of course the belles you to accept your children no matter what. but they chose the easier route.

[RosyDaisy]

My church helps LGBTs who have been shunned by their families even if they aren't Christian. My future SIL and her partner spearhead this outreach. Religion isn't even mentioned unless the person initiates it. We let them know we are always here for them and love them. It sickens me that fundies have a twisted view of what evangelism really is.

[Mama Mia]

i can't help but feel for them, too. while they chose to treat their son the way they did, they did it because that's what their pastor/spiritual leader/fellow church members said they were supposed to do. that's what they were told was the norm in handling something like that. they trusted them, like one would trust a doctor in handling a diagnosis, and they paid a heavy price for it. i can't speak for these parents, but my parents - my mother especially - was brainwashed.

my parents also experienced something almost similar. when my brother came out, they severely limited my exposure to him and even their contact with him. when he refused to "repent", they completely shunned him. it really broke my mother's heart, she spent endless nights crying and praying, but she believed it was what she was supposed to do. she devoured books by barbara johnson, desperately searching for peace in her decision. she never really got any until years later, when she finally was able to break out of the brainwashed, fundamental shell and reconcile with my brother. this mother, however, will never get to experience that. i only hope that in this young man's death, other children and young adults won't have to suffer through the rejection he experienced.

i understand if other members have no sympathy for them. but, in my personal experience of seeing the other side, of how my brother wasn't just simply "written off" but was cried and agonized over, i can't help but feel a twinge of sympathy for them. it also just shows how dangerous and manipulative this religion can be, forcing parents to choose between their children and their faith at times. it's not just devastating and harmful for the children, but also for the adults who are being told by sources they trust that what they're doing is right and it's the best thing for their children. and when, of course, it doesn't turn out the way that they're told it should, a moment of faith crisis...why didn't it happen the way it was supposed to? i trusted this pastor/spiritual leader, i prayed, i gave it to god, why didn't it work? my mother didn't leave christianity, but she is definitely very liberal in her faith compared to before.

I have complete sympathy for the parents. It sounds, to me, like the view of these parents is very similar to if their child was suffering from addiction. The agonizing, attempts to save them from their actions, " tough love", fear for siblings, sorrow, frustration, counseling and treatment, terror that they are ruining their lives, guilt, anger at people they think are bad influences......all of it.

Obviously homosexuality isn't the same as substance abuse-- but it sounds like these parents believed it was very much the same sort of thing. And reacted very much the same way. And in case people forget, it has only been very, very, very recently that marriage equality has been accepted, or that it is illegal to discriminate against people for being a LGBT, or that having a same sex relationship has even been legal in some states.And that in many areas it is STILL legal to discriminate.

Very, very sad -- but I'm glad these parents took what happened in their family and are using it to educate people. That takes a lot of strength and bravery.

[doggie]

I have complete sympathy for the parents. It sounds, to me, like the view of these parents is very similar to if their child was suffering from addiction. The agonizing, attempts to save them from their actions, " tough love", fear for siblings, sorrow, frustration, counseling and treatment, terror that they are ruining their lives, guilt, anger at people they think are bad influences......all of it.

Obviously homosexuality isn't the same as substance abuse-- but it sounds like these parents believed it was very much the same sort of thing. And reacted very much the same way. And in case people forget, it has only been very, very, very recently that marriage equality has been accepted, or that it is illegal to discriminate against people for being a LGBT, or that having a same sex relationship has even been legal in some states.And that in many areas it is STILL legal to discriminate.

Very, very sad -- but I'm glad these parents took what happened in their family and are using it to educate people. That takes a lot of strength and bravery.

this is the same thing all the parents that let their children die from lack of medical care. the church supported them and they knew faith healing works. when you only choose one option everything looks fixable by prayer. Their lack of understanding of their child and that he just needs fixed is not a cool thing. Just think of what the boy had to go through all the guilt and pressure and condemnation. told he was going to hell if he did not change they made his life hell.

[MichellezBangz]

I don't. They chose hating him over loving him. I'm just sorry he died from their shitty, evil, horrible parenting.

Sad for the parents but the son is the victim and gets most of my sympathy. It saddens me so that people who are rejected in that way go down a path of slowly killing themselves through substance abuse or the more direct path through suicide.

[doggie]

Sad for the parents but the son is the victim and gets most of my sympathy. It saddens me so that people who are rejected in that way go down a path of slowly killing themselves through substance abuse or the more direct path through suicide.

Plus rejecting your child is very against the bible. they choose to find gayness evil but rejecting their child ok.

[Rachel333]

Plus rejecting your child is very against the bible. they choose to find gayness evil but rejecting their child ok.

Is it, though? From Matthew 10:

21. And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father his child: and children shall rise up against parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

and

34. Think not that I came to send peace on the earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35. For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law: 36. and a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

The Bible is clear on where your priorities should be, and if there's a conflict you are supposed to put God above your family. It's a really horrible position to put people in.

[doggie]

or this

Lamentations 3:32-33

Though he brings grief, he will show compassion,

so great is his unfailing love.

For he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to the children of men.

Mark 10:13-16

People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them.

the problem is taking the bad from the old testament and ignoring the good and what jesus said.

[DaffyDill]

Saw a documentary by Lisa Ling on the Exodus Foundation and the like, with their "pray away the gay" rubbish. Just so sad to see people praying and desperately trying to be something they're not because JESUS.

Lisa also did a follow up to the first documentary, and it was surprising to see married (to a woman) ex-gay Exodus leader Alan Chapman (I think that was his name) change his position somewhat...made me wonder if he would stay married much longer.

[smittykins]

I remember seeing both, DaffyDill. All during that segment with his wife and kids in the first one, I was thinking, "He's *totally* still gay."(ISTR the kids being adopted, but I could be wrong.)I hope they don't wind up getting hurt.