Parents upset after CT schools cancel Halloween

[2xx1xy1JD]

It's not just JWs. Many Orthodox Jews don't celebrate Halloween either, and there are other religious groups that don't as well.

It's really doesn't matter if someone thinks that not participating in Halloween is "silly". You don't get to make that call for someone else.

In both the US and Canada, there are laws that protect someone's right to practice their religion and that prevent government/public institutions from discriminating on the basis of religion or favoring one religion over another. The rights of kids from minority religions matter too.

Sure, kids from many different backgrounds enjoy Halloween. So what? That doesn't magically make it acceptable to all kids.

Telling kids that they can just abstain means telling some kids that they are second class citizens. It means that a public school is deliberately creating a situation where some children are going to be excluded because of their religion, despite the fact that public institutions are not supposed to favor one religion over another. There is no compelling reason to treat children this way. Halloween, unlike sex ed or evolution, is not a part of the curriculum.

Nobody is saying that kids can't go trick or treating. They can do whatever they want at home, not during school hours.

[formergothardite]

ITA, it doesn't matter if the children are Muslim, JW, Jewish or a Christian who doesn't celebrate the holiday. The main goal of school is to provide a safe learning environment. Telling kids to just abstain, stay at home, or singling them out because of their religion is not creating a safe learning environment.

[DGayle]

My older daughter's school doesn't do Halloween. The reason isn't about offending anybody. There are kids who would have very elaborate costumes, and kids whose families couldn't afford more than what's in the bargain bin the day of Halloween. Unlike Christmas or other holidays, a Halloween party is a day where the kids would be faced with economic differences in a bold way. So I support not having costume parties at school. It would be nice if they could have a non-costume fall party though.

[PurpleSheepleEater]

Yeah, I just feel they keep taking away a lot of the fun for kids anymore. And I believe they stopped them here too, the parties, but not certain on that. There is some talk about Halloween in general phasing out. As in, the holiday itself, not just school parties. There is always some excuse to move the day of trick-or-treat. Only allowed three days a week, Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays now, but even Thursdays are iffy because of football and Mondays also have football, so they are iffy too. No excuses for not trick-or-treating on Tuesdays...yet. Can't do it Wednesdays or Sundays cause church and Friday nights are high school football and Saturdays may have drunk people and school dances. Because there are lots of drunk people out between 6-8pm, which are the designated trick-or-treat hours here. All the scares of poisoned and razors/needles in candy are also to blame.

For real??

We trick or treat on the 31st here. Cause......that's Halloween. It's not a floating holiday!

[Shirley Blest]

I know everyone is going to throw out the "IT'S ALL THE JW'S FAULT!!" but keep in mind...they usually really don't care. This gets into a level of politics that witnesses would shun away from.

[Shirley Blest]

I'm personally surprised that a holidays filled with candy is allowed to be celebrated at school thanks to the new food guidelines that have been made.

[August]

My family doesn't celebrate harvest or fall, we're feeling terribly left out.

[Mama Mia]

What I think is really interesting, is that I live in what is probably one of the top five leftiest of the far left towns in the entire United States -- and the schools here still do Halloween Parties, and Valentines Day Parties and at least in high school, they call it A Winter Concert - but a whole bunch of the music is traditional Christmas Carols ( I think younger kids wouldn't have religious ones included ) .

And I've never heard of any complaints. But it's also a town where someone wouldn't dream of asking an acquaintance or co-worker what church they go to. And a public administrator wouldn't dream of offering up a prayer in an emergency ( like I saw some official from another state do on tv) And no one would bat an eye if someone says they are Wiccan or Athiest or whatever. And religious affiliation, in general, is just not discussed or assumed.

But no one seems to care if kids are participating in these celebrations at school. I know they include other religious and secular type songs and celebrations, but I do find it interesting.

It seems to me, kind of like how many posters here seem to be very casual about their country having an official religion, and religious instruction being included in schools -- because their society is so secular. Maybe because my own community is so secular, they don't care about the celebrations?

Just interesting to me.

Also, I'm curious, how do kids get all these invitations to church events?

Eta: my most recent info is a couple years old, so maybe it's changed, but it would have to be a pretty drastic and quick change.

[Coco]

It does seem like the push back is loudest in old-school communities where the minority religions get shunned. If they had more acceptance the parents would probably be like, oh well it's just a little party for fun, it's okay, we'll discuss our own beliefs at home after the party.

I'm personally surprised that a holidays filled with candy is allowed to be celebrated at school thanks to the new food guidelines that have been made.

A teacher was quoted on a website i read as saying the kids are hyper for more than a week after candy holidays. A lot of people i know are going to toy handouts like these: (or things like goldfish crackers)

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

When I was in grade school in Texas- we did not do anything for Halloween at school. I am kind of surprised to hear that it is such a big deal in other areas. My opinion is that Halloween is not an official state or national holiday, so I wouldn't think that they would have any activities during the school day.

If an auxiliary organization (PTA, Student Council,etc.) wanted to have an event outside of school hours, I don't think anyone should try to stop it. But I guess there are more groups who could get offended than you could keep up with.

[Feberin]

This I agree with. I was specifically referring to the second set of songs.

I like winter songs. I wish I knew more obscure ones that aren't totally overplayed. I get sick of them real fast.

Out of curiosity, are there similar summer songs for cultures south of the equator?

I'm curious if you're all right if they do a Santa song if they also do songs from other cultures like Dreidel, Dreidel, Dreidel? I always remember singing that song in Elementary school to make our Winter Concerts more diverse.

My kids aren't in Elementary school yet. One preschool celebrated Halloween with costumes and a parade. The other didn't mention it. Both kids seem happy however I do think dressing up at school (or anywhere really) is a fun experience for kids. I student taught at a school that did "dress like a book character day", which takes out a lot of the objection to Halloween but honestly kids still just wear their Halloween costumes. And then they did a Fall party.

[DGayle]

If she is dressing like a Twilight vampire, then she is just dressing like a high school student. Just sparkly.

And pasty white, even if you were a black person when alive. When you're a vampire in that world, you turn into a pale white person with bags under your eyes. Somehow this is sexy.

[LilMissMetaphor]

I love when people give out non-candy, actually. Here in small-town Ontario I remember getting mostly good quality chocolate growing up and very little "junk". But my kids in the past few years have come home with mostly mini bags of chips and Cheetos, a lot of what we called the "junk" (suckers, jawbreakers, cheap gum, ring pops, pop rocks, sugar in a stick etc) and less of the mini chocolate bars. There is always a house or two that gives out cans of pop and/or full-sized chocolate bars. We also get Goldfish and juice boxes which I like as it makes lunch packing easier for the next week.

People should give what they want to give and can afford, so I am not generally too critical; the only thing that I think is kinda lame to receive is Halloween stickers. The holiday is practically over by the time those make it in the bag--it's not like my kids are going to want to decorate their stuff with them in November.

I do think the books for treats initiative is pretty cool. Not sure how well it would go over with most youngsters though.

[DGayle]

There are imo 3 types of christmas songs: religious ones that mention Jesus, God etc (away in the manger, silent night…); secular ones that mention Santa or decorating or even shopping etc (deck the halls, must be santa, grandma got run over…); and winter songs that have been grouped into Christmas songs (jngle bells, let it snow, sleigh ride)

If they were really trying to pass off religious songs like away in the manger, silent night, little drummer boy etc, that’s wrong. But I don’t see the problem with songs like Jingle Bells, Rudolph, or Must be Santa.

I was listening to Here Comes Santa Claus yesterday, and noticed a line I never did before. "Here comes Santa Claus, here comes Santa Clause, right down Santa Claus Lane. He doesn't care if you're rich or poor for he loves you just the same. Santa knows we're all God's children. That makes everything right. Let's give thanks to the Lord above that Santa Claus comes tonight."

[DGayle]

It's not just JWs. Many Orthodox Jews don't celebrate Halloween either, and there are other religious groups that don't as well.

It's really doesn't matter if someone thinks that not participating in Halloween is "silly". You don't get to make that call for someone else.

In both the US and Canada, there are laws that protect someone's right to practice their religion and that prevent government/public institutions from discriminating on the basis of religion or favoring one religion over another. The rights of kids from minority religions matter too.

Sure, kids from many different backgrounds enjoy Halloween. So what? That doesn't magically make it acceptable to all kids.

Telling kids that they can just abstain means telling some kids that they are second class citizens. It means that a public school is deliberately creating a situation where some children are going to be excluded because of their religion, despite the fact that public institutions are not supposed to favor one religion over another. There is no compelling reason to treat children this way. Halloween, unlike sex ed or evolution, is not a part of the curriculum.

Nobody is saying that kids can't go trick or treating. They can do whatever they want at home, not during school hours.

This is the reasoning used to separate Spring Break from Easter by a couple weeks at my high school, and there was an attempt to move Winter Break to mid January o it didn't coincide with any December holidays. That went over like lead the single year the school tried. Almost no one showed up, and even the teachers, even the ones who were openly not Christian and the one who was Jewish, were pissed off having to be there. When you have attendance of 10%, the state school board wants to know why.

But it's also not reasonable to take school off for every single holiday there is. Since vacations tend to coincide with Christian holidays, what do you suggest? School all ready without breaks that even touch a holiday weekend, even if it means the majority of students not going for certain weeks, or taking every single holiday off?fair, and at this point, unless you're south of the border, Halloween is entirely secular. Next thing you know, kids won't be able to bring cupcakes for their birthdays because some kid doesn't celebrate birthdays.

[BrownieMomma]

This is the reasoning used to separate Spring Break from Easter by a couple weeks at my high school, and there was an attempt to move Winter Break to mid January o it didn't coincide with any December holidays. That went over like lead the single year the school tried. Almost no one showed up, and even the teachers, even the ones who were openly not Christian and the one who was Jewish, were pissed off having to be there. When you have attendance of 10%, the state school board wants to know why.

But it's also not reasonable to take school off for every single holiday there is. Since vacations tend to coincide with Christian holidays, what do you suggest? School all ready without breaks that even touch a holiday weekend, even if it means the majority of students not going for certain weeks, or taking every single holiday off?fair, and at this point, unless you're south of the border, Halloween is entirely secular. Next thing you know, kids won't be able to bring cupcakes for their birthdays because some kid doesn't celebrate birthdays.

It's already like that around here. No sending stuff to school for your kid's birthday. Peanut allergies, gluten/lactose intolerance etc etc etc

[Snarkle]

Target and other stores (like dollar stores) have really nice non-candy items to hand out to kids like plastic teeth and rubber rats. One year I gave out Halloween-themed pencils along with candy - kids could have a choice. A local dentist gives out toothbrushes to kids with his info on them. I do try to have a variety of candy, especially after a friend told me her family can't have corn (and therefore corn syrup). As for candy, I'd always had Starburst and Skittles for kids who had nut allergies (a neighbor thanked me for that), but those both have corn syrup, so I got Hershey's bars because they're made with sugar as an alternative for kids who couldn't have corn syrup. Not sure how the new gluten-free trend affects Halloween candy...? I try to have a variety so kids can get something no matter what their situation is, although last year we had bad weather on Halloween so we had so few trick or treaters we were stuck with candy for weeks.

[Snarkle]

As someone who grew up in an overwhelmingly Catholic/Protestant area as a kid, we did Christmas big in the school with a whole show. There were definitely some quite Christmas-y songs but not overtly religious. I remember reading "Are You There, God, It's Me, Margaret" in 4th grade and being puzzled that kids would sing the Dreidel song alongside Christmas-y tunes. Then I married a non-practicing Jew and it totally opened my eyes at how overt Christmas is and how it's getting worse. Every year my husband says he wishes there were somewhere he could go to get away from holiday tunes. My son and I both love holiday music but we promise to only listen to it from Thanksgiving to Christmas Day and then no more, and usually not in my husband's presence. As for schools, our local schools tried to have school on Good Friday once and while a lot of students were in class, there were so many teachers who called out they gave up after just one year.

[shedemei]

I'm curious if you're all right if they do a Santa song if they also do songs from other cultures like Dreidel, Dreidel, Dreidel? I always remember singing that song in Elementary school to make our Winter Concerts more diverse.

Ah yes, the standard Jewish song for school winter concerts.

[Coco]

Target and other stores (like dollar stores) have really nice non-candy items to hand out to kids like plastic teeth and rubber rats. One year I gave out Halloween-themed pencils along with candy - kids could have a choice. A local dentist gives out toothbrushes to kids with his info on them. I do try to have a variety of candy, especially after a friend told me her family can't have corn (and therefore corn syrup). As for candy, I'd always had Starburst and Skittles for kids who had nut allergies (a neighbor thanked me for that), but those both have corn syrup, so I got Hershey's bars because they're made with sugar as an alternative for kids who couldn't have corn syrup. Not sure how the new gluten-free trend affects Halloween candy...? I try to have a variety so kids can get something no matter what their situation is, although last year we had bad weather on Halloween so we had so few trick or treaters we were stuck with candy for weeks.

Next year i might go with the kids as a nutrition label.

[2xx1xy1JD]

This is the reasoning used to separate Spring Break from Easter by a couple weeks at my high school, and there was an attempt to move Winter Break to mid January o it didn't coincide with any December holidays. That went over like lead the single year the school tried. Almost no one showed up, and even the teachers, even the ones who were openly not Christian and the one who was Jewish, were pissed off having to be there. When you have attendance of 10%, the state school board wants to know why.

But it's also not reasonable to take school off for every single holiday there is. Since vacations tend to coincide with Christian holidays, what do you suggest? School all ready without breaks that even touch a holiday weekend, even if it means the majority of students not going for certain weeks, or taking every single holiday off?fair, and at this point, unless you're south of the border, Halloween is entirely secular. Next thing you know, kids won't be able to bring cupcakes for their birthdays because some kid doesn't celebrate birthdays.

It's a different issue.

It doesn't violate anybody's religion to have school vacations. Nobody is being excluded. My kids go to a private Jewish school that is off for the last 2 weeks of December, strictly out of convenience - there are already mandatory government holidays during that period, and some parents are public school teachers with time off.

The only possible issue could be that Christian kids would automatically get vacation at the time of their holidays, while kids from other religions would need to arrange to take off time. FWIW, there are public schools with large numbers of kids from religious minorities that already adjust for this. My cousin in Silver Springs, Maryland told me that her son's public school started a few days later, because of Rosh Hashana, and my SIL's school knows that attendance dips ways down for Diwali so they plan accordingly.

My kids' school already cancelled the birthday (kosher, nut-free) cupcakes. The kids were eating an insane amount of junk at school, so I don't miss it.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Ah yes, the standard Jewish song for school winter concerts.

I appreciate the attempt to acknowledge that other religions exist.

That said, I still cringe a bit because:

1. Dreidel, Dreidel is a pretty awful sounding tune that should never be sung by anyone over age 5.

2. From a musical POV, there's a lot of really nice Xmas music. That makes Dreidel Dreidel sound even worse in comparison.

3. Imagine going on an exchange for a year with an Israeli school. Everyone spends a month totally focused on Rosh Hashana, Yom Kippur, Sukkot and Simchat Torah. The teacher, desperately trying to be inclusive, says "Hey, you've got a holiday too! Let's do something for Columbus Day! And make sure to include a token recognition of Columbus Day every time we talk about our big holidays!" By the time December rolls around, nobody at the school is talking about holidays anymore.

Chanukkah is a minor holiday in Judaism. No time off work, no festive meal, just some candle-lighting and greasy snacks. We've got a ton of major holidays - Rosh Hashana (New Year), Yom Kippur (Atonment), Sukkot (Leaky Huts), Simchat Torah (Dancing with the Scrolls), Passover (Gluten-free Freedom) and Shavuot (10 Commandments and cheesecake). We've even got another minor holiday that's a lot more fun - Purim is all about feasting, lots of drinking, giving money to the poor, exchanging food gifts with friends and dressing up in costume. So no, December isn't a universal festive season.

[Mama Mia]

It's a different issue.

It doesn't violate anybody's religion to have school vacations. Nobody is being excluded. My kids go to a private Jewish school that is off for the last 2 weeks of December, strictly out of convenience - there are already mandatory government holidays during that period, and some parents are public school teachers with time off.

The only possible issue could be that Christian kids would automatically get vacation at the time of their holidays, while kids from other religions would need to arrange to take off time. FWIW, there are public schools with large numbers of kids from religious minorities that already adjust for this. My cousin in Silver Springs, Maryland told me that her son's public school started a few days later, because of Rosh Hashana, and my SIL's school knows that attendance dips ways down for Diwali so they plan accordingly.

My kids' school already cancelled the birthday (kosher, nut-free) cupcakes. The kids were eating an insane amount of junk at school, so I don't miss it.

I don't think it's uncommon for school districts to adjust their calandars to fit the needs of their students, even for non- religious reasons. In my area a district in an area that is largely immigrants from Mexico has a shorter summer break than most schools, but takes a longer winter break - because traditionally many people would go back to Mexico to visit for the holidays. Not so much since 9-11 and the border being tighter, but the downtown used to be a ghost town in Winter.

I think schools being responsive to their local communities makes sense. It does though seem to be a balancing act to include and accommodate children's celebrations and customs - without alienating others.

To me, I always thought the most difficult issue was with the Jehovah Witness kids. Because it seems, to me, that it's easier for children to appreciate acknowledging other traditions holidays, even if they aren't your own --- but if you find the very notion of a holiday celebration evil --- where does that leave you?

I"

[2xx1xy1JD]

I don't think it's uncommon for school districts to adjust their calandars to fit the needs of their students, even for non- religious reasons. In my area a district in an area that is largely immigrants from Mexico has a shorter summer break than most schools, but takes a longer winter break - because traditionally many people would go back to Mexico to visit for the holidays. Not so much since 9-11 and the border being tighter, but the downtown used to be a ghost town in Winter.

I think schools being responsive to their local communities makes sense. It does though seem to be a balancing act to include and accommodate children's celebrations and customs - without alienating others.

To me, I always thought the most difficult issue was with the Jehovah Witness kids. Because it seems, to me, that it's easier for children to appreciate acknowledging other traditions holidays, even if they aren't your own --- but if you find the very notion of a holiday celebration evil --- where does that leave you?

I"

I think there's a line between celebrating and acknowledging.

Costume parties, songs, crafts, etc. actively involve students in a particular holiday, even if it's only the aspects that aren't considered overtly religious.

OTOH, an announcement along the lines of "Happy Halloween/Diwali/Eid/Purim, etc. to those who are celebrating" recognizes that there are holidays which are important to some students, while not involving everyone in active celebration. It's also perfect fine for the children themselves to talk about their own holidays and celebrations.

[dairyfreelife]

Why is Halloween somehow favoring one religion over another? It's not religious at all, unless you count the Druids of old. I do not like the fact that some holidays are celebrated like CHristmas and ignoring ones like Diwali, but do not see how Halloween is included as a religious holiday. One thing I really like about it.