Did Mama Munck just give a huge FU to the Maxwells?

[FloraDoraDolly]

100%. You make a very excellent point. He's not idolizing God in terms of love, humility, and building an honest relationship, he's idolizing the image of God as an agenda (which he uses to his own benefit). Steve doesn't submit to anyone, not even God. Steve just considers God a pawn in his own schemes. Unfortunately for Steve... :lol:

Also, I think the 2nd commandment applies very well here.

'You shall not make yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything in heaven above or on earth beneath or in the waters under the earth."

And by coincidence, "God" wants the exact same things Steve wants and believes in the exact same things Steve believes in. For example, Steve does not like sports, he does not want anybody else to like sports or play sports, therefore "God" does not like sports. Steve always manages to find some Bible verse to back up whatever he wants other people to believe/do (or not do), but those other people are not free to interpret those verses differently or find other verses to make an argument against Steve. He won't even listen to a pastor or a trained theologian-- if they disagree with Steve, then clearly they are not really ministers of "God."

[Coco]

How telling that even we ebil heathen feminists over here on FJ (as he would put it, which he knows is totally false if he'd let himself be honest) can see through him and have enough knowledge of his own beliefs to see what he is doing wrong.

[uber frau]

For him to appreciate that would require insight and humility. And lacking those things is what got him into this mess in the first place.

[anjulibai]

Looking through this blog, it seems Elizabeth is back to wearing pants. Good for her.

She's also gotten heavier. Amanda has a thicker frame, so it's all genetics. I'm not saying this as a criticism, but because it's just more proof Elizabeth would have been miserable with the Maxwells.

There's no way they'd tolerate Elizabeth being so heavy. Anna Marie is about as much as they allow, and she's really just normal. I'm sure Elizabeth would have been pressured to lose weight and stay on a diet constantly.

She so dodged a bullet.

[Eternalbluepearl]

Does Steve really read here?

[Snarkangel Gabriel]

I wouldn't be surprised if the entire Munck family received a lot of vitriol to the point of psychological abuse from Steve when they had the courage to support their daughter in avoiding a huge mistake. I can imagine them being told how they would be judged, how they were rejecting the will of God, how Elizabeth would be "damaged goods" etc. If I am right (and of course I am speculating) then that sort of thing can be frightening - like being in an abusive relationship, if you hear something enough times you believe it. I am glad they had the courage of their convictions and that their convictions are strengthening.

Have to go now. I think my 4 year old boy liked the picture of the shameless girl on the bike, showing her knees and enjoying herself. He may now be having impure thoughts, coveting the bike or thinking that having fun rather than doing his chores is acceptable. I need to email Steve to find out the relative magnitude of these sinful options so that I can deal with them in the right order within my schedule.

This is my first ever post here.

[FloraKitty35]

Way to throw shade Mrs. Munck. :popcorn2:

[Savoring Samsara]

Does Steve really read here?

Nobody knows for sure, but there have been some weird coincidences. For example, FJ mentioning a particular typo or awkward phrasing on the blog, or pointing out a joke comment that got through moderation, and within a day it's fixed or gone.

[NurseNell]

walkingajourney.com/2014/09/free-to-beme.html

:clap: This made me pretty damn happy.

I just read the blog this morning, and cheered for Mama Munck. Oh yes, it was directed to the Maxwells. Lucky,lucky Liz!

[treemom]

Nobody knows for sure, but there have been some weird coincidences. For example, FJ mentioning a particular typo or awkward phrasing on the blog, or pointing out a joke comment that got through moderation, and within a day it's fixed or gone.

We don't know if he reads here. But we definitely know he is aware of us as he told me so. And I feel like he reads here

[nokidsmom]

It honestly makes me wonder if Steve-O tried to strong arm the Muncks into making Liz marry Joe...I know that's awful...but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility.

Well, I would think there were phone calls to the Munck household really, really, urging Liz to reconsider cancelling the wedding. I can see both Steveovah and Joseph making an appeal. Whether it turned to trying to strong arm her parents, who knows but possible. But one thing for sure, when it became apparent that Liz was not going to change her mind, the Muncks became personae non gratae to the Maxwells.

Also count me in as one who would have loved to been a fly on the wall in Maxhell when this went down. Of course, we will never know and honestly, we shouldn't. Steveovah may have struck out all references to the failed engagement because of what it did to his brand but to be fair, it would have been considerate to Joseph as well. This wasn't the first time we have seen failed courtships "disappear" from the internetz.

[Brittany15]

I think Steve may also think of this situation as his son "dodging a bullet." In his mind the Muncks are ungodly heathens now and he is probably fairly relieved his son is not married to one of them.

[socalrules]

If anything, Steve should be thanking God that Elizabeth didn't go through with the wedding. If she had, and Elizabeth changed wanted out after the wedding, it appears that her family would have welcomed her home with open arms. Then Steve would be stuck with a now impure son who was soon to be divorced. Or horrors of horrors, Elizabeth would have taken any child she had back with her. That would truly have been a nightmare for Steve. This is why I think for family's like Steve's you choose women whose families would force them to stay in a marriage regardless of how unhappy they are.

[nokidsmom]

I think Steve may also think of this situation as his son "dodging a bullet." In his mind the Muncks are ungodly heathens now and he is probably fairly relieved his son is not married to one of them.

I suspect Steveovah decided that his son had dodged a bullet the very second it was apparent that this wedding was not happening for real. For someone to say "no" to his son and tarnish his "courtship works" brand? Unthinkable. That very second, Liz and her family were not worthy.

I actually don't see Steveovah making any sort of contact with the Muncks, even to announce this marriage, because again, they are not worthy. However it wouldn't surprise me if they heard about it through some grapevine.

[divadivine]

Looking through this blog, it seems Elizabeth is back to wearing pants. Good for her.

She's also gotten heavier. Amanda has a thicker frame, so it's all genetics. I'm not saying this as a criticism, but because it's just more proof Elizabeth would have been miserable with the Maxwells.

There's no way they'd tolerate Elizabeth being so heavy. Anna Marie is about as much as they allow, and she's really just normal. I'm sure Elizabeth would have been pressured to lose weight and stay on a diet constantly.

She so dodged a bullet.

I don't think she's put on any weight. In the family picture from Easter she looks the same as always.

[nokidsmom]

I don't think she's put on any weight. In the family picture from Easter she looks the same as always.

Elizabeth would have not gained weight in the "Land of One Animal Cracker" except for pregnancy.

[jingerdoe]

Woot! Go Mamma Munck!

[RecoveringFundie]

Did she delete stuff from her blog about their engagement? I didn't see anything when I briefly looked at it, but I also don't know the timeframe of when that was.

[Mela99]

How did Steve even let them meet if the Muncks are so much... more worldy?

[anjulibai]

The came to a conference. That's how they Christopher met Anna Marie.

[WonderingInWA]

Without looking at the Munck's Easter photos, Elizabeth has a very round face (looks a lot like her dad) which might have made her look heavy? I don't know.

But I was thrilled to read Mama Munck's blog post today. It was absolutely laced with just a little bit of FU to Steve. She's still a good person, but even she had to finally get back at him for whatever went down. I'm sure Steve bombarded them with all sorts of scripture after Liz backed out of the wedding and that probably went on for awhile. And she has probably been waiting to post this entry and now that Joseph is married, it seemed right. All pure speculation on my part, but that's what I think.

And I agree with a previous poster that in some ways, Joseph dodged a bullet, too. He would have been married to a woman who was going to be pretty sad trapped in Maxhell and being told her family traditions were no longer hers to have. That alone -- the birthday tree, for example -- would have made me very depressed as a young bride. And even patriarchal men probably don't find depressed wives a lot of fun to be around.

[church_of_dog]

And by coincidence, "God" wants the exact same things Steve wants and believes in the exact same things Steve believes in. For example, Steve does not like sports, he does not want anybody else to like sports or play sports, therefore "God" does not like sports. Steve always manages to find some Bible verse to back up whatever he wants other people to believe/do (or not do), but those other people are not free to interpret those verses differently or find other verses to make an argument against Steve. He won't even listen to a pastor or a trained theologian-- if they disagree with Steve, then clearly they are not really ministers of "God."

Re the bolded -- this is pretty much exactly what Ken and Lori do as well. I think Steve's version of it is rather extreme even for fundies, but the basic description of "my view is the only correct view" seems to be pretty standard in fundiedom. Heck, it might be pretty standard for narrow-minded people of all religous perspectives...

[gardenvarietycitizen]

How did Steve even let them meet if the Muncks are so much... more worldy?

The Muncks went to a Maxwell conference. They attended their first conference in 2008, were infatuated with the image of the perfect Maxwell family, and attended several further conferences, bringing more members of the family to the later ones.

At that time they were on the way to being more rigidly fundie in the image sense. It seemed they saw something they liked in the Maxwells and started emulating it.

Then the courtship and called off wedding happened, and it seems now they're on their way out again - not to become non-fundie, but just not quite as rigid as before. Before they went into Maxwellia, Elizabeth wore pants and drove her own car around alone, she looked like a normal American teenager (even if she was very religious).

The "Maxwell years" were the aberrant dip, for them.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Re the bolded -- this is pretty much exactly what Ken and Lori do as well. I think Steve's version of it is rather extreme even for fundies, but the basic description of "my view is the only correct view" seems to be pretty standard in fundiedom. Heck, it might be pretty standard for narrow-minded people of all religous perspectives...

Where Steve differs most from other fundies is that he has no respect for religious leaders or clergy. His family members are all held accountable to him, yet he is accountable to no one. Even the fundie patriarchs who attend pastorless churches of the holy basement read and discuss the Bible together and may have disagreements from time to time. If one guy is acting like a horse's ass, the other guys are there to call him out. I'm sure Steve's sports tirades would not go over well if he were part of a group that included men like Jim Bob or Gil Bates. ("Aw, come on, Steve! The kids are just playing a game! Lighten up!")

[16strong]

I can't be the only one that would love to see PP, Stevehovah, and their my way or the highway attitudes put in a room together.