Can someone give me a Maxwell summary?

[usmcmom]

Thank you so so so so much. I also must add I always wondered about your avatar and where it was from but I finally found kid farm and I want them to make a million more.

I clicked on that preparing daughters article and was disgusted to read this:

Quite often this is a topic of conversation between she and I that she will bring up after church. It will go something like this, Mom, did you notice what so and so had on today? I dont understand how she can choose to dress like that. I wonder why her parents dont encourage her to dress modestly

So, Teri raised her daughters to sit in church and judge other girls on their clothing. She raised her daughters to concentrate on disparaging the modesty of other girls rather than on the content of the church service. Nice parenting there, Maxwells. :evil:

[onlyme]

I saw them at a conference quite a few years back. They were playing their "family band" bluegrass type music. Seriously, I have never seen such a large group of people with so little facial expression or animation-especially when playing bluegrass which is usually considered "fun".

Do they still have a band? It seems for a while it was almost obligatory for "serious" home school families to have a family bluegrass band. The only music outside of classical w/out that dangerous drum beat!

I know Teri spoke a lot about suffering from depression for a while. And I do know that depression is a disease and it's not necessarily something you can blame circumstances for and all that. But if I felt the extreme need to micromanage every 5 minutes in my day in some huge binder and God was going to judge me for my failure to perform, etc. etc. I would be pretty depressed too. What ever the cause, the whole family gives a very sad air when you see them. Of all the fundies, I really pity them. They aren't even enjoying their position of "superior righteousness".

[Odd1Out]

Took me awhile to get through these! Thank you all for the summaries. I especially loved being able to go back and read some of the original posts---nice touch. I am dying at the image of Teri and the girls at the craft fair in matching homemade jumpers getting "compliment after compliment." :lol:

I wonder if the Maxwell kids are able to pick up on and understand sarcasm?

[nomoxian]

I wonder if the Maxwell kids are able to pick up on and understand sarcasm?

They probably view sarcasm as a form of lying, which is a sin. I would be surprised if they engage in it, and it's debatable whether they could pick up on it (especially considering their insulated lifestyle)

This is an interesting article about sarcasm: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-science-of-sarcasm-yeah-right-25038/?no-ist

"People who don’t understand sarcasm are immediately noticed. They’re not getting it. They’re not socially adept."

[kpmom]

I saw them at a conference quite a few years back. They were playing their "family band" bluegrass type music. Seriously, I have never seen such a large group of people with so little facial expression or animation-especially when playing bluegrass which is usually considered "fun".

Do they still have a band? It seems for a while it was almost obligatory for "serious" home school families to have a family bluegrass band. The only music outside of classical w/out that dangerous drum beat!

I know Teri spoke a lot about suffering from depression for a while. And I do know that depression is a disease and it's not necessarily something you can blame circumstances for and all that. But if I felt the extreme need to micromanage every 5 minutes in my day in some huge binder and God was going to judge me for my failure to perform, etc. etc. I would be pretty depressed too. What ever the cause, the whole family gives a very sad air when you see them. Of all the fundies, I really pity them. They aren't even enjoying their position of "superior righteousness".

It appears the micromanaging every second of the day was actually in response to Teri's depression. Keep her too busy to think, I guess.

It probably worked well back when they had a bunch of kids who were being homeschooled.

Now, it seems like they have to find work for 10 adults to do, yet they keep to that schedule. Sarah posted a blog post awhile back where they had to get permission from Teri to let the schedule go for a few hours so they could help Melanie clean her house.

Yes, adult women asking their mother for permission to skip some things on a schedule that can easily be made up later.

I wonder if Steve is worried that Teri could fall back into depression without that schedule.

[nausicaa]

I wonder if the Maxwell kids are able to pick up on and understand sarcasm?

I have heard other frumper wearing fundies make this claim as well, and I wonder if it's that they can't pick up on fake flattery to cover one's own ass? Like some people were caught staring at the frumpers, so they said in a forced, insincere way that any of us would see through, "Your outfits are so...unique!"

[PrairieGirl]

I also made this experience. And sadly, sometimes it's from one bad extreme to another. I personally know one boy of a strict Christian family who, after he fled from the rule of his crazy father, got sexually involved with any girl he could find. Kids who failed the first year of college, cause they were so excited to finally have some freedom and used it for excessive partying, alcohol and weed and so on.

But there are also plenty examples of young adults using their new found freedom responsibly. Sure, maybe a party here and there, some drinks and some dates or maybe later a boyfriend/girlfriend, but they managed to keep up a productive life with good grades and taking care of their health.

I am torn on how well the Maxwell "children" would function in the real world. Yes, I do think it would be a terrible shock and the older they get it will be harder to adapt, but maybe just maybe it wouldn't be too bad. At least that is my hope.

I was raised in a very sheltered world, though compared to the Maxwells I was positively worldly. We only wore skirts, went to a tiny basement school K through 12th, only associated with other freaks like us, etc. I saw my first movie in a theater at the age of 17 when I lied and snuck out with a friend. I still hear songs on the radio that were huge hits when I was a teen that I still do not recognize. So yeah, pretty sheltered.

However, once I escaped (at 18), I did okay. I went to school, held down a waitressing job, got an apartment with a friend, had a couple of regular boyfriends and still managed to have fun w/o getting arrested or doing hardcore drugs. Of course, my parents were pretty peeved at my refusal to go to church, and they assumed I was pretty much living in a whorehouse since I did allow my boyfriend to spend the night, but I was leading a normal life for a person my age. I did (and 20 years later still do sometimes) feel socially awkward around people, but a lot of that I believe is my personality.

What struck me most when I made the escape and lived in the real world for a few months, was how nice and normal most people were. I think I was expecting to have to wade through a cesspool of pure evil just to find a few decent people, and it was the complete opposite. I found that most people are generally good. Sure, there are assholes and bad people out there, but I did find that they were in the minority. That was a HUGE step in me leaving the cult behind forever. I had no need or desire to go back to it, defiled and scared, as everyone assumed I would.

Sorry. Didn't mean to make this all about me, and I don't want to sound like I am bragging about what an awesome person I am. Far from it. I guess I just hold out a small hope that if one of them (or hopefully more) escapes, they might be able to survive and eventually thrive in the real world.

[usmcmom]

My apologies if this link has already been shared. I stumbled upon it last night and I'm not sure I'd read it before. This story is disturbing on many levels and, I think, illustrates how very little Steve actually loves Teri. He doesn't mention getting her input at all before reversing his vasectomy and adding more children to their family. I think it's very possible Steve didn't tell Teri about the reversal until she found herself pregnant again.

titus2.com/corners/dads-corner/we-ve-reversed-a-bad-decision.html

[kpmom]

My apologies if this link has already been shared. I stumbled upon it last night and I'm not sure I'd read it before. This story is disturbing on many levels and, I think, illustrates how very little Steve actually loves Teri. He doesn't mention getting her input at all before reversing his vasectomy and adding more children to their family. I think it's very possible Steve didn't tell Teri about the reversal until she found herself pregnant again.

titus2.com/corners/dads-corner/we-ve-reversed-a-bad-decision.html

Re. the bolded, that always bothered me too. I really, really hope he just didn't mention it in his article, but did discuss it with her.

Although, Teri, being the good submissive wife, probably would have gone along with it no matter what.

ETA: I notice he wrote he told Teri he was going to see what the bible said about having children, and would "settle the matter right then."

So, while it seems like Teri was aware of Steve's plans to reverse his vasectomy, it sure doesn't seem like she had much say in the matter.

[sparkles]

Re. the bolded, that always bothered me too. I really, really hope he just didn't mention it in his article, but did discuss it with her.

Although, Teri, being the good submissive wife, probably would have gone along with it no matter what.

ETA: I notice he wrote he told Teri he was going to see what the bible said about having children, and would "settle the matter right then."

So, while it seems like Teri was aware of Steve's plans to reverse his vasectomy, it sure doesn't seem like she had much say in the matter.

This a woman who doesn't think it's her place to remind her husband to pick up a pizza because HE'S THE MAN. I highly doubt her opinion on the matter of the reversal would matter one whit. Even if he asked for her input, in the end it's HIS decision and I don't think for a second that she'd ever question his authority. Because Steve only wants what GOD tells him to want. Or vice versa, actually.

[Odd1Out]

This a woman who doesn't think it's her place to remind her husband to pick up a pizza because HE'S THE MAN. I highly doubt her opinion on the matter of the reversal would matter one whit. Even if he asked for her input, in the end it's HIS decision and I don't think for a second that she'd ever question his authority. Because Steve only wants what GOD tells him to want. Or vice versa, actually.

It just amazes me that these men with such fragile egos that can't handle being reminded to pick up pizza and cry because they say a glimpse of boob, think that their families should solely depend on them and trust them with their 'hearts'.

[anjulibai]

Yeah, I can't imagine being with such weak men. It amazes me that they think a man who can't handle any sort of criticism from his wife or seeing a woman in even slightly revealing clothes is strong enough to lead anyone.

[mastercleaner]

About the sarcasm.. I don't think they get it at all.. even normal speak.

I went to a conference a few years ago and it was during the winter.. and we were talking and I said to Anna and Sarah "do you like our "crazy" winter weather we're having, its pretty insane isnt it?"

They both sure had blank looks on their faces, so I'm gonna say no to the sarcasm if they cant even get normal speak.

[ILoveJellybeans]

About the sarcasm.. I don't think they get it at all.. even normal speak.

I went to a conference a few years ago and it was during the winter.. and we were talking and I said to Anna and Sarah "do you like our "crazy" winter weather we're having, its pretty insane isnt it?"

They both sure had blank looks on their faces, so I'm gonna say no to the sarcasm if they cant even get normal speak.

That's just sad. I expected that though, they don't get enough social interaction to get stuff like that, and their weird stilted speech patterns really show up in their writing. I wonder how much they actually speak to eachother in the day.

That's really not a good example of being a good conversationalist Steve-you wrote a book on good conversation, your kids need one. Not written by you though.

[Hane]

I was raised in a very sheltered world, though compared to the Maxwells I was positively worldly. We only wore skirts, went to a tiny basement school K through 12th, only associated with other freaks like us, etc. I saw my first movie in a theater at the age of 17 when I lied and snuck out with a friend. I still hear songs on the radio that were huge hits when I was a teen that I still do not recognize. So yeah, pretty sheltered.

However, once I escaped (at 18), I did okay. I went to school, held down a waitressing job, got an apartment with a friend, had a couple of regular boyfriends and still managed to have fun w/o getting arrested or doing hardcore drugs. Of course, my parents were pretty peeved at my refusal to go to church, and they assumed I was pretty much living in a whorehouse since I did allow my boyfriend to spend the night, but I was leading a normal life for a person my age. I did (and 20 years later still do sometimes) feel socially awkward around people, but a lot of that I believe is my personality.

What struck me most when I made the escape and lived in the real world for a few months, was how nice and normal most people were. I think I was expecting to have to wade through a cesspool of pure evil just to find a few decent people, and it was the complete opposite. I found that most people are generally good. Sure, there are assholes and bad people out there, but I did find that they were in the minority. That was a HUGE step in me leaving the cult behind forever. I had no need or desire to go back to it, defiled and scared, as everyone assumed I would.

Sorry. Didn't mean to make this all about me, and I don't want to sound like I am bragging about what an awesome person I am. Far from it. I guess I just hold out a small hope that if one of them (or hopefully more) escapes, they might be able to survive and eventually thrive in the real world.

PrairieGirl, you're not bragging at all--you're giving us insight into how a former fundie kid could learn to live a reasonable, happy life after escaping from the family cult!

[hoipolloi]

Re. the bolded, that always bothered me too. I really, really hope he just didn't mention it in his article, but did discuss it with her.

Although, Teri, being the good submissive wife, probably would have gone along with it no matter what.

ETA: I notice he wrote he told Teri he was going to see what the bible said about having children, and would "settle the matter right then."

So, while it seems like Teri was aware of Steve's plans to reverse his vasectomy, it sure doesn't seem like she had much say in the matter.

Looks like Steve got the word from God & then informed Teri:

I was convicted that we were wrong in taking matters into our own hands and determined to set it right. Almost immediately, we sought out a doctor and prayed that God would provide the funds to reverse the previous surgery. Within a short amount of time, God provided a doctor and the funds for the surgery.

Regardless, Steve Maxwell is a demented asshole.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Do they still have a band? It seems for a while it was almost obligatory for "serious" home school families to have a family bluegrass band. The only music outside of classical w/out that dangerous drum beat!

I've long wondered just what it is with the "family band" trend myself. I suppose part of it is that "family band" can be a ministry and a sort of career you can do from home without a boss, which seems to be the holy grail of so many of these insular families.

What struck me most when I made the escape and lived in the real world for a few months, was how nice and normal most people were. I think I was expecting to have to wade through a cesspool of pure evil just to find a few decent people, and it was the complete opposite. I found that most people are generally good. Sure, there are assholes and bad people out there, but I did find that they were in the minority. That was a HUGE step in me leaving the cult behind forever. I had no need or desire to go back to it, defiled and scared, as everyone assumed I would.

Just reading about various extremely sheltered groups around the net, it seems it's very common to paint this stark black and white picture of "we on the inside are spiritual and so have MEANINGFUL lives of inquiry and deep thinking (or connection to God), while ALL people on the outside lack any sort of inner life or purpose, their lives are without meaning, they live only for the pleasures of the flesh."

You see it in the writings of those on the inside (such as the Maxwells or certain posts to extremely Orthodox websites), and you see it in the writings of those who left, remembering what they'd been told. The idea that someone can leave extreme religion for intellectual reasons is just unheard of or not to be believed - supposedly the people who "backslide" or "go off" or "frei out" or "don't get baptized" or whatever the specific group's term is, are leaving because they're weak and they just want to have sex and party all the time and eat cheeseburgers and bacon.

I really got to thinking about this while reading a serious book about the Rumspringa experience among the Amish. They will often say that they give their kids a choice and so they're quite openminded, etc, but the interesting part about so many of the experiences was that they were just left adrift without direction, and so many of them did run to parties and drugs and other sorts of... driftless behavior. And yet THAT WAS JUST FINE with the community - because the community knows such a life is unfulfilling and hard to survive (because the kids have no secular-applicable skills, really) and so they come back. On the other hand, the thing that was really out there and truly transgressive (and thus VERY much opposed by the community) was kids going to high school.

Why? Because going to high school (and on from there) they meet secular people who actually do have goals and a purpose and truly meaningful lives. THAT is dangerous. Kids will get skills that actually let them leave.

When it comes to actually leaving some of the bigger ultra-religious communities (Amish and various "ultra-Orthodox" chassidish groups for instance) there are programs available for helping kids catch up, sometimes they have to start with basic English skills even.

Coming from a one-man cult like the Maxwells, I guess they'd be more on their own, but surely there's commonality, makes me wonder if there are some more general support groups for people leaving extreme patriarchal Christianity of the more "individual family" sort or ATI or things like that...

[nomoxian]

If I were anywhere near any of the Maxwells tour stops, I would totally put on some frumper garb (to appear less threatening), pass by their booth and let their "kids" know that there are people who would support them in LIFE.

Though I recall someone from Free Jinger did speak to them in real life, and one of them said "I love my daddy" in a very creepy manner that was bordering on incest.

[treemom]

If I were anywhere near any of the Maxwells tour stops, I would totally put on some frumper garb (to appear less threatening), pass by their booth and let their "kids" know that there are people who would support them in LIFE.

Though I recall someone from Free Jinger did speak to them in real life, and one of them said "I love my daddy" in a very creepy manner that was bordering on incest.

That was me. When I told Sarah and Mary they are people who would help them if they ever want to leave the cult of your father and that they had Stockholm syndrome.

[Brightonbelle]

Did anyone here watch Dexter? Remember that Thanksgiving dinner scene with John Lithgow playing a serial killer, sitting at the head of the table surrounded by his terrified family?

That's how I imagine Steve Maxwell; jovially announcing that, 'y'know I'll bet these burritos would taste just the same without the hamburger' while his family look on, dismayed and yet unable to do anything but agree.

[Lillybee]

The Maxwells also do not believe in wasting time. Teri has a bad back and uses a microwavable heating pad. It takes three minutes to zap it and Teri says that while she is waiting for it to heat up, she does things like rearrange the kitchen drawers. I really feel so sorry for her.

[albanuadh_1]

The Maxwells also do not believe in wasting time. Teri has a bad back and uses a microwavable heating pad. It takes three minutes to zap it and Teri says that while she is waiting for it to heat up, she does things like rearrange the kitchen drawers. I really feel so sorry for her.

Are you serious? OMG.

[Coco]

I've long wondered just what it is with the "family band" trend myself. I suppose part of it is that "family band" can be a ministry and a sort of career you can do from home without a boss, which seems to be the holy grail of so many of these insular families.

Just reading about various extremely sheltered groups around the net, it seems it's very common to paint this stark black and white picture of "we on the inside are spiritual and so have MEANINGFUL lives of inquiry and deep thinking (or connection to God), while ALL people on the outside lack any sort of inner life or purpose, their lives are without meaning, they live only for the pleasures of the flesh."

You see it in the writings of those on the inside (such as the Maxwells or certain posts to extremely Orthodox websites), and you see it in the writings of those who left, remembering what they'd been told. The idea that someone can leave extreme religion for intellectual reasons is just unheard of or not to be believed - supposedly the people who "backslide" or "go off" or "frei out" or "don't get baptized" or whatever the specific group's term is, are leaving because they're weak and they just want to have sex and party all the time and eat cheeseburgers and bacon.

I really got to thinking about this while reading a serious book about the Rumspringa experience among the Amish. They will often say that they give their kids a choice and so they're quite openminded, etc, but the interesting part about so many of the experiences was that they were just left adrift without direction, and so many of them did run to parties and drugs and other sorts of... driftless behavior. And yet THAT WAS JUST FINE with the community - because the community knows such a life is unfulfilling and hard to survive (because the kids have no secular-applicable skills, really) and so they come back. On the other hand, the thing that was really out there and truly transgressive (and thus VERY much opposed by the community) was kids going to high school.

Why? Because going to high school (and on from there) they meet secular people who actually do have goals and a purpose and truly meaningful lives. THAT is dangerous. Kids will get skills that actually let them leave.

When it comes to actually leaving some of the bigger ultra-religious communities (Amish and various "ultra-Orthodox" chassidish groups for instance) there are programs available for helping kids catch up, sometimes they have to start with basic English skills even.

Coming from a one-man cult like the Maxwells, I guess they'd be more on their own, but surely there's commonality, makes me wonder if there are some more general support groups for people leaving extreme patriarchal Christianity of the more "individual family" sort or ATI or things like that...

There are these blogs that are very supportive, as a starting place:

recoveringgrace.org/

patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/survivor-blogs

homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/

patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/

[Jana814]

The Maxwells also do not believe in wasting time. Teri has a bad back and uses a microwavable heating pad. It takes three minutes to zap it and Teri says that while she is waiting for it to heat up, she does things like rearrange the kitchen drawers. I really feel so sorry for her.

I remember reading this & thinking that's just nuts!!

[Naga Viper]

Are you serious? OMG.

Eh, I'll cut her some slack on that one. I'm the biggest procrastinator/time-waster I know and not the best housekeeper in the world, but I'd rather clear some dishes from the dishwasher or wipe off the counters than stand around drumming my fingers idly for the 60 seconds it takes to nuke a frozen burrito (with beef). Three minutes would be enough time to go fire off an email or make a short call or something.