Ryland was just a tomboy like me, parents at fault.

[clarinetpower]

You probably have heard the story of Ryland.

[bBvideo 560,340:13p2p48t]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckQLwjsjJY4[/bBvideo]

So, now comes this lady (lindsayleighbentley.com/2014/06/30/i-am-ryland-the-story-of-a-male-identifying-little-girl-who-didnt-transition/), who is convinced that Ryland is just a tomboy (like she was) and the parents are forcing Gender Reassignment on the kid, but someday "she" will like spa days and nursing her babies and wearing an apron.

:angry-banghead:

[polecat]

It's possible, I suppose, that the kid is a tomboy. It's also possible that he knows exactly who he is. Either way, how does it hurt to have his parents supporting him? On what planet is parental support unhealthy for a small child? It's not like they're encouraging him in something dangerous or hazardous. In the future, regardless of whether he ends up identifying as male or female, he will always remember that his parents loved him for who he was.

[MamaJunebug]

This isn't the place for this question, but that's never stopped me before: why don't we hear many stories about boy-to-girl transgender kiddoes?

Just wondering...and developing my own theories, none of which is happy.

[polecat]

This isn't the place for this question, but that's never stopped me before: why don't we hear many stories about boy-to-girl transgender kiddoes?

Just wondering...and developing my own theories, none of which is happy.

I remember a few stories, including a girl who had to fight to use the girl's bathroom at school and another girl who had a battle with her Girl Scout troop about something or other (can't remember what specifically).

[church_of_dog]

This isn't the place for this question, but that's never stopped me before: why don't we hear many stories about boy-to-girl transgender kiddoes?

Just wondering...and developing my own theories, none of which is happy.

Actually, I think there are several that have been in the news lately…

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/27/living/transgender-youth-pride-march/index.html?iref=allsearch

http://schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/04/schools-transgender-ruling-fairness-or-discrimination/?iref=allsearch

http://www.slate.com/articles/video/dear_prudence/2014/06/dear_prudence_video_my_son_is_now_my_daughter.html

[Emme]

One of Ryland's first phrases was "I'm a boy". Pretty sure Ryland doesn't want to read your crap theories, random ass judgy fundie. (Thank you Clarinet, for posting this)

[chaotic life]

I have a friend with a boy to girl transgendered child. Listening to her story was what woke me up on this topic. I have nine children, and over 20 years working with children as a professional. There is a b2g transgendered child that has been in the news recently. Her parents tell the story of how when she was three she vocalized that she wanted to cut her penis off.

I'm sorry, but I have NEVER heard a child express something like that. If my child said that, it would get my attention too. Furthermore, that child's family was conservative Baptists. My friend was from a conservative Christian background.

These stories are NOT merely coming from liberal or even mainstream families. It makes me worried for the kids who are in families that won't set aside the I religious beliefs to hear a child speak.

I have a Tom-boy, and for a long time she was highly resentful about having a female body. But, she never expressed that she was a boy, and she never contemplated self mutilation. I am not convinced that Ryland is merely a Tom-boy or that simply removing gender stereotypes will give all of these kids the freedom to be who they are.

There's a mom in CA with a blog about raising a very effeminate son (Raising my Rainbow). He likes stereotypical girl stuff but he still identifies as a boy.

[Trynn]

You probably have heard the story of Ryland.

[bBvideo 560,340:2bnhysje]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckQLwjsjJY4[/bBvideo]

So, now comes this lady (lindsayleighbentley.com/2014/06/30/i-am-ryland-the-story-of-a-male-identifying-little-girl-who-didnt-transition/), who is convinced that Ryland is just a tomboy (like she was) and the parents are forcing Gender Reassignment on the kid, but someday "she" will like spa days and nursing her babies and wearing an apron.

:angry-banghead:

With the exception of breast feeding, (as most men aren't capable of that) I'm sure some men enjoy some of those things too. I know men who wear aprons and gasp , enjoy spa days and bigger gasp, helping to take care of their baby!

[clarinetpower]

She goes on to say her husband loves to decorate and shop and picks out her clothes, too, and she changes the oil in the car. He also has a hipster beard.

This was posted by a super-Catholic fundie FB acquaintance and marked "Beautiful."

That's not the B word I would have used.

I don't think she actually watched the video or listened to any of the interviews. The child says he is a boy, and has since he could first speak. The parents aren't forcing anything on him.

My mom was a tomboy, too. Rode horses, wanted her hair short, played in the mud, hung out with the boys, shinnied up trees and tromped through the fields without looking down for cow shit. She was very proud of that.

She also dated all of those boys, had long eyelashes and wore blue eyeshadow and heels, and made the best meatballs in the country.

She did NOT ever say she wanted to be a boy or wanted to cut off her penis.

This woman makes me stabby. Why is it her job to declare this to the world, like she would know anything?

[susykt4]

I was/am the biggest tomboy. As a young child I always preferred boy games, toys, colors, clothes, etc. Most of my friends were boys because the girls were playing dolls and I flat-out wasn't interested. I'm now in my 40s and still absolutely don't care about clothes, makeup, spa days or any of the stereotypical woman stuff. I've also been married to a man for 21 years, breastfed my kids, enjoyed my pregnancies. When I was very young, I think I wished I was a boy, but ONLY because I hated all my (fundie) female relatives constantly telling me to act like a girl. I have never identified as a man or been attracted to women. When I watched the Ryland video I didn't see myself in this child at all! There is no comparison.

[Burpies]

One of my very best friends has a child who just transitioned to identify from a boy to a girl-she is 7 and was her only boy. She had her (him) ten months after I had my 8 year old boy and we (and they) hung around all of the time. I even have pics of the kids in the tub together.

Watching her go through this is heart-wrenching for me. They moved across the country a couple of years ago and I feel like I'm not able to support her the way she needs over Skype.

She (he) always wanted to wear dresses and make up (like her(his) big sister). When it was time to go to kindy she (he) wanted to have the pink sparkly Barbie backpack. All not a big deal, but then, 10 months ago she(he) asked my friend if she could take her (him)to the dr. so she (he) could get her (his) penis cut off. That's when my gf knew this wasn't a faze. Luckily they had moved to the Bay area, where there are a lot of resources. My gf started attending PFLAG meetings, reading pamphlets, and going to the therapist. My gf signed her (him) up for a transgender kids camp and she (he) felt more free then she (he) ever had. My gf started letting her wear dresses when they went out to certain places and she (he) understood the dresses were only for certain times. Then the story of Ryland came out. My gf asked her is she wanted this, if she didn't want to be a boy but just wanted to be a girl, and her (his) eyes got really big and said 'You mean I can be how I feel all of the time?!!?' Pretty much, from then on he became her. She picked her name, and that night, before bed, she brought down a picture that he drew and said to my gf 'This is your last picture from ________. Tomorrow ______ won't be here, but ______ will be.' The next day they went out and brought her a whole new wardrobe. It was the end of the school year, but my gf had the meetings she needed to have with the school and everything is set up. Next year she'll be starting second grade as a girl. My gf said there is a really good organization based in the Bay area (and I apologize, I forget the name) that does training for schools to help the transition easier for everyone, so they will be working with the school, and apparently there are a lot of laws in place and things like which bathroom or locker room won't be an issue.

It's hard for my gf because she wants to only show a supportive face to her daughter. She also has to deal with the criticisms of her family (fundie-lite), and neighbors, and every body else in the world who feels 'this is just a phase blah blah blah'. All while she morns her son. She gained a daughter, but my friend lost her son. She had to pack up the boy clothes and pack up the boy toys and totally change any expectations in her mind as to how he would grow up. It helps to see how happy she is, but it's still hard on her. Esp because she doesn't want to show that side to her daughter.

Now they are having crises about bathing suits and hair :D She hasn't said anything about want to remove her penis since she has transitioned to a girl. My friend thinks it might be because she felt that in order to do the things she wanted to do, wear dresses, makeup, ect, that she needed a vagina, but now that she can do those things she isn't interested in removing her penis right now.

[FeministShrew]

My oldest is 20 & FtoM. He came out when he started college. Never a tomboy, never girly either, but just never seemed comfortable in his own skin. He says he always knew he was male. He's happier & more comfortable than I've ever seen him, but I can't help but be glad he didn't come out sooner. I don't think I would have been in the place to love & support him. Now he has gay & trasgender friends & a strong support system (not including my conservative, redneck fundie family, or his more-fundie-than-ever dad, who recently started a home church.).

Plus we live in a small southern town, where the his highschool principal hosted students in his home for showings of Christian movies. He also called a young gay man into his office & told him to "watch himself," because he was a leader in the school & couldn't afford to be labeled as gay.

I also work in the county where the transgender teen was told to take off her makeup for her driver's license photo.

[bea]

I have a good friend who has transitioned FtoM at home and socially, and is saving up for top surgery. Remains married to a male, has a poly marriage and always has, and the husband discovered during the course of all this that he isn't nearly as straight as he thought he was. It's odd for me, because when he was a she, I was the labor assistant at the birth of their daughter, and years before that, had introduced them to one another.

The woman I knew had major depressive disorder, an eating disorder, anxiety issues, social anxiety, got easily overwhelmed by any decision-making, was afraid to drive, and spent weeks without leaving the house. When he finally made the decision to start hormone therapy and live as a male, it was like a new person. He's decisive, he's confident, he's WAY more assertive (which took the spouse by surprise, having always assumed that his wife would always agree with him and never argue), he's a better parent, and a happier person.

Frankly, I think in a lot of cases, earlier transitions are better. Sitting down and explaining that your mom is becoming a man to a six year old is....damn near impossible. Another couple I know waited until their daughter had gone to another state to college before the male spouse started a M to F transition

She knew when their daughter was 5 that she was transgender, and waited 13 years in what she felt was the wrong body - again, major depression, eating disorders, anxiety, huge problems. Living in a body that you actively resent, that you feel is entirely wrong for you, I think that's mentally tortuous.

TL;DR After I've gotten know people as they've transitioned, and knowing a few people before and after transition, I think that a lot of misery can be avoided by allowing children to live as their chosen gender.

[terranova]

You probably have heard the story of Ryland.

[bBvideo 560,340:2ndf2kl9]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckQLwjsjJY4[/bBvideo]

So, now comes this lady (lindsayleighbentley.com/2014/06/30/i-am-ryland-the-story-of-a-male-identifying-little-girl-who-didnt-transition/), who is convinced that Ryland is just a tomboy (like she was) and the parents are forcing Gender Reassignment on the kid, but someday "she" will like spa days and nursing her babies and wearing an apron.

:angry-banghead:

Because only women can enjoy spa days, being parents and cooking? My husband likes all three of those (ok, he's never been to a spa, but he likes going to get massages.)

[GoFlamingo]

Even if it is "just a phase" (not saying that's actually the case for any of these kids), I don't understand what the harm is in letting them dress and express their gender presentation they way they want. They're aren't doing anything non-reversible. They'll likely go on hormone blockers when they start puberty, and hormones of the gender they identify as a later teen. Genital reassignment surgery wouldn't happen until after 18, when the child is legally an adult, most likely. So, really the child would have plenty of time to explore their gender identity before anything permanent happened.

Danny Noriega (Adore Delano from RuPaul's Drag Race) identified as a transgender girl when he was younger, but now seems happy living as a man. (This was the interview where he mentioned it: podbay.fm/show/375327840/e/1397256157?autostart=1 )

So, yeah, just let your kid be happy. Stop trying to force them into the gender box they were assigned at birth if it doesn't fit.

[church_of_dog]

Even if it is "just a phase" (not saying that's actually the case for any of these kids), I don't understand what the harm is in letting them dress and express their gender presentation they way they want. They're aren't doing anything non-reversible. They'll likely go on hormone blockers when they start puberty, and hormones of the gender they identify as a later teen. Genital reassignment surgery wouldn't happen until after 18, when the child is legally an adult, most likely. So, really the child would have plenty of time to explore their gender identity before anything permanent happened.

Danny Noriega (Adore Delano from RuPaul's Drag Race) identified as a transgender girl when he was younger, but now seems happy living as a man. (This was the interview where he mentioned it: podbay.fm/show/375327840/e/1397256157?autostart=1 )

So, yeah, just let your kid be happy. Stop trying to force them into the gender box they were assigned at birth if it doesn't fit.

I agree. I understand the parents' distress at not knowing if this is "for real" or "just a phase", but as you said, the only irreversible part is surgery and that doesn't happen that young anyway. There is no reason not to permit a child to express however they want to, in an age-appropriate way.

[bea]

I think there's a lot MORE danger in forcing the kid to conform to their physical sex. But some people still refuse to believe that your physical sex and your gender might be different.

[Hane]

Then there's the whole concept of gender fluidity, which is far more complex than "it's just a phase." Not everyone fits neatly into the gender binary, and far too many people refuse to recognize that fact.

[ariel9]

The parents made a really hard choice and none of us know what we would do if we were put in that situation. It took a lot of guts to tell the whole family to suck it and adhere to their wishes. I know that if if we're me I would have had family preaching sermons at me.I don't think they made any irreversible choices like a sex change so that's good. It's normal to question if this is a phase because the kid is so young and we go through so many phases until we settle. If you look at the photos before she made her transition she looked to be into a rigid female gender role. Maybe she thinks the only way to get out of it was to live life as a boy. I'm not her parents and I have no say but I would enforce less rigid gender roles until she's older and has the same feelings. I can sort of relate being a girl was awful as a kid I hated the clothes. I liked boy clothes and boy games but my rents weren't having any of that. I wanted a sex change when I was 12 and my friends say that I'm like a boy on the inside. I still don't exactly know how

to be a girl and some concepts of the whole gender sounds like torture

[Zock]

Once a person has self-identified as a certain gender, please don't play the "she/he" or "she (he)" game with that person's identity.

If she has identified as female, the SHE needs to be referred to by the correct pronouns and not constantly referenced back as "she (he)" (or the reverse). Referring to someone by a pronoun that is contrary to how that person presents (even if it was accurate in the past) is disrespectful.

http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

[dianapavelovna]

Actually, I think there are several that have been in the news lately…

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/27/living/transgender-youth-pride-march/index.html?iref=allsearch

http://schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/04/schools-transgender-ruling-fairness-or-discrimination/?iref=allsearch

http://www.slate.com/articles/video/dear_prudence/2014/06/dear_prudence_video_my_son_is_now_my_daughter.html

One of the first transgender kids I remember hearing about is Jazz. She was on...Oprah? or maybe Dateline or one of the other newsmagazine shows. This was six or so years ago, so I think she was six or so. She's 13 now.

She's written a kids book about transgender kids:

[church_of_dog]

Once a person has self-identified as a certain gender, please don't play the "she/he" or "she (he)" game with that person's identity.

If she has identified as female, the SHE needs to be referred to by the correct pronouns and not constantly referenced back as "she (he)" (or the reverse). Referring to someone by a pronoun that is contrary to how that person presents (even if it was accurate in the past) is disrespectful.

http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

I agree and would never consider not using whatever pronoun is preferred. But I think it's only fair to acknowledge that when we're talking about youngsters, it's reasonable to also question the weight and the context of their statements about their preferences -- because a) their brains are not done developing and 2) they don't have the life experience needed to put things in context, to grasp what is minor and what is major, to recognize how it feels to know something "for sure" vs. how it feels to know something for the moment but understand intellectually that the next day/month/year they might feel differently. From my perspective, at least, it's not about not respecting the child's expression of their feelings, it's the dilemma of knowing that sometimes what kids say changes over time. (Notice that the proportion of adult ballerinas, princesses, firemen and cowboys is somewhat less than would have been predicted by a panel of five-year-olds :lol: )

If this was my kid, I would seek a balance between respecting their wishes on the one hand, and locking them into a situation that would be awkward if not impossible to change as they got older on the other hand. Clothing, nicknames, daily activities are all completely changeable in the future if needed. Legal designations such as legal name, gender for school, medical records, etc is less flexible but not impossible to change. Surgery of course is least changeable and would hopefully wait until the person is an adult who can say "yes this is what I want and I'm very certain about it."

Anyway, I think it's great that these topics are being thought about and discussed in kind and wellmeaning ways. I hope that the future is more welcoming than the past for anyone who struggles with this situation.