Kelly @ GC: “Do you like your children?�

[Burris]

Kelly Crawford has a new article up, cross-posted at Ladies Against Feminism, where she talks about whether or not average parents enjoy the company of their children.

As the new school year approaches, I’ve heard more and more “rejoicing†by mothers declaring “just X number of days and the kids will be out of the houseâ€. And while I’m sure there are many, many moms who lament this ending of precious time with their children, there seems to be a disturbing number who do not.

Kelly is obviously talking about people who fall outside her circle of friends and acquaintances. I seriously doubt she would pal around with mothers who work/don't home-school, and so I can only assume she's reporting on comments she overheard or collected while outside her comfort zone.

Rather than meeting working mothers where they are and offering tips on how best to enjoy what time they have with their kids, Kelly suggests women should just leave the workforce and spend all day, every day with their kids. Totes easy, amirite?

Somehow that, in itself, will encourage parents to enjoy spending time with their kids.

Add to that the lack of “generational vision†of raising up godly children, a mammoth-sized feminism force telling them they should pursue their own interests no matter what, no encouragement from older women to be keepers at home, and no cultivated taste for homemaking…

Kelly is part of a subculture where it’s not only acceptable but expected that parents will whip their kids, including infants – possibly with wooden dowels or PVC pipe.

** This is a subculture where, even despite medical opposition to the practice, women are encouraged (e.g., by the Ezzos and even the Maxwells) to schedule baby feedings. (Nursing-on-demand will just embolden the selfish little sinners, doncha know – but God knows how fundies so enjoy their children.)

** This is a subculture where children are often described as ammunition – as arrows created to fell cultural enemies.

** This is a subculture where kids are sometimes denied proper medical care, from before birth onward (and including routine vaccinations), because “God will provide.â€

** This is a subculture where parents are encouraged to have far more children than finances or even simple living space should permit.

Even despite the absolutely overwhelming evidence that some common fundie practices are bad for children, however, Kelly is still content to swallow a camel while straining a gnat: It's 'the world' that has the problem, and not her or her peeps.

Well, we ladies have a lot of work to do fulfilling our duty as the “older womenâ€â€¦.but I find it downright heartbreaking that we have cultivated a whole generation of parents who don’t even enjoy their own children, to the degree they are glad for them to spend a large portion of the day somewhere else.

Let’s map Kelly’s logic:

** Some mothers make comments about how glad they’ll be when their children return to school.

** Therefore they don’t really enjoy their children.

** This is because feminism has made women selfish enough to think they may work even after having borne children.

** If women were to just stay home and school their kids at the dining room table, then they’d enjoy those kids all the more - because people who allegedly don’t want to spend every day with their kids for two months would suddenly be okay with spending every waking moment surrounded by an always-growing number of children for the next 30 years straight. Or something.

One of the reasons for not enjoying one’s children is the failure to teach them simple obedience and respect. I’ve seen children who haven’t been taught respect for their parents–I wouldn’t want to spend the day with them either.

There's a terrible paradox that exists in some fundie homes: Kids won’t become “enjoyable†unless parents treat them like valueless shit and beat unquestioned obedience into them with PVC pipe. (I'm not saying Kelly herself does this, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn she applies the rod with vigor.)

It’s only after having broken the children down that parents will deign to “enjoy†their own children.

Anyway, of course discipline is important. Some kids speak to their parents in a way that deserves no less than a grandma-style back-hand.

It’s self-serving and broadly insulting, however, to suggest many harried parents are glad to see the summer break end merely because they can’t stand the undisciplined brats they created – especially when that assumption is coming from an outspoken member of a subculture where children are mistreated as a matter of habit.

But as the value of children decreases, the value of the parent’s role also decreases.

She’s so close to the truth, here, and yet so far: The fundie subculture where children are devalued with such regularity also devalues women – women’s intelligence, women’s social contributions, women’s very lives. This is why Doug Phillips can get away with saying that to end an ectopic pregnancy is “elective abortion†and yet still somehow keep his job. This is why people can deny their own daughters access to the HPV vaccine with the only-barely veiled claim that cervical cancer is an appropriate punishment for girls and women who dare to have unauthorized sex. (Aside: Yeah, I know the vaccine doesn't prevent all HPV or cervical cancers. I'm speaking here about a specific attitude.)

Does the average parent believe this? Does he equate a house full of children with “reward, happiness and blessing� If not, he’s doing something wrong!

Or maybe he – and I love how Kelly subtly switches from talk of women to talk of men – is able to do simple math and is willing to put the brakes on when

he knows he can't adequately support yet another kid.

But what other conclusion could be expected from a woman who thinks it’s perfectly alright to hoard children even if there isn’t enough food or living space?

And now for the best part: It turns out Kelly’s entire rant about bad parents is actually an infomercial for her new book, “Getting Your Children to Obey.â€

Here’s the description:

Do you enjoy your children? Do they obey the first time? Do you like taking them places? If not, this little book may change your life.

(Emphasis mine.)

Well, it’s good to know that in between rebuilding her house and caring for nine kids, Kelly has had time to produce yet another e-book.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT

** In which Kelly fails at that whole "culture of life" thing

** Here's someone whose husband didn't let his wife's emotional instability get in the way of filling his quiver: The disgusting would-be patriarch, Russell Yates

[Turtle]

What an idiot.

I like my kid, which is why I want him happy and well educated. I fed him when he was hungry from birth by nursing on-demand and always picked him up when he cried. It's also why I waited to try to concieve another until I felt ready to meet the emotional and physical needs of two children. And it's also why I would never in a million years hit him, much less with a god damn plumbing line.

[Hisey]

I've read Kelly's ebook. Her brilliant child-raising methods? Switching them, then forcing them to pray and restoring a "right relationship." If the kids refuses to stop being angry--the "session" is not over yet.

Smile or I'll hit you more, kid.--That's how you should treat your blessings.

[emmiedahl]

I don't think Kelly even knows people outside of her fundie circle, so how would she know whether I like my kids?

I like my kids. I think they are cool people and I love to be around them. It will be nice when they go back to school because they won't be here messing up the house and I can go to the store with a smaller entourage. I am working from home right now and it can be tough with all the distractions and also the temptation to just give in and spend the day finger painting.

I doubt I would find my children more likeable if they were fake-smiling yes-men. I love their personalities. I don't generally keep friends who tell me what I want to hear and compliment me insincerely; why would I want children who are the same? Also, you can't beat 'respect' into a child. Fear, yes, but respect has to be earned.

[Guest Anonymous]

Right now my 16 month old and I are in a love hate relationship. He's cutout all naps and refuses to sleep until 11pm and gets up at 4.I'm an insomniac who can't fall asleep til 2 most nights, you guys do the math...

I would never beat him or switch him no matter how frustrated I get. The worst is, ill gate him in his room while I go and cool down.

Children lack the capacity for badness or evil, they're just trying desperately to understand the world around them. When these people claim that kids are inherently sinful and basically must be broken to be"good", it breaks my heart.

[Burris]

I've read Kelly's ebook. Her brilliant child-raising methods? Switching them, then forcing them to pray and restoring a "right relationship." If the kids refuses to stop being angry--the "session" is not over yet.

Smile or I'll hit you more, kid.--That's how you should treat your blessings.

It falls under Fair Use to post short excerpts for the purpose of criticism. I'd love to see Kelly's uncensored child-rearing advice.

[lilwriter85]

I agree with emmiedahl and Burris, I don't think Kelly really knows any women outside the fundie circles. I have seen other fundies make similar blog postings like this one in which they try and say that some women dislike their children simply they don't homeschool or they are working moms. I don't have any kids but friends and relatives who are moms tell me that they love their children but sometimes they need breaks from their kids and several moms I know said they would never feel comfortable or confident enough to homeschool their children.

[aggythenostic]

Please. I love my husband, but I also enjoy when he leaves town for a couple of days. Liking a little time to yourself is not a mortal sin, no matter what that crack-brow bonehead thinks, and it does not imply any lack of love or enjoyment.

Uh Kelly? That's not mascara. There seems to be a PLANK in your eye.

[starfish]

Kelly knows NO ONE out of her small fundy circle. She's just making up "straw man" type of arguments to denounce working women and feminists. She's drawing/making up broad conclusions off some tagline she heard on a television program or advertisement.

The Stinking Fishwife does the same thing all the time, and it's annoying and crappy argumentation.

Kells and I have a very different idea of enjoying children.....

[ElphabaGalinda]

From what I know about Kelly, she's the one who doesn't enjoy her children. The whole beat them until they're perfectly submissive and with a smile on their face doesn't seem like enjoyment to me. And she doesn't know anyone whose children go to school, so there she goes making up stuff again.

[hoipolloi]

Thank you, Burris. You've nailed what's so wrong with these people. Kelly Crawford is most assuredly not speaking with anyone who sends a child to school, public or private. At best, she's overhearing conversations in WalMart or some other temple of goodness she frequents.

This is why I have a hard time being enthusiastic over events like the birth of Noah & Dorothy's baby when I know the parents expect (and are expected) to "break" him, probably before he's two. They will be encouraged if not exhorted to use the rod unsparingly, making sure that he "obeys the first time."

Ugh.

[Rosa]

MagadociousRex, you have so much sympathy with the no sleeping thing. It gets better, I swear! I hope you have someone who can do mornings for you part of the time, until then.

And thank you for calling out the pattern, Burris. "You don't love your children because they don't obey your every command instantly and that is irritating!" is a very weird definition of love - and of course Kelly applies it to marriage, too.

[hoipolloi]

MagadociousRex - I remember those days, and nights! They seemed endless. If he's safe enough in his room & the gate keeps him in, would you be able to go in there & nap for a bit on his bed (assuming it's not a crib!) while he's bopping around in there? I know it won't be completely restful but perhaps he'll be inspired & lie down too! I used to do this, and at least half the time succeeded in enticing the little guy into some "quiet time" which led to sleep for both of us.

[Hisey]

Magda, I'm sorry you are going through this with your baby. My youngest had sleep problems and it was terrible (for me, she seemed OK with it)

Have you tried putting him in his crib with a warm bottle of milk and some board books? If you do this over a period of time, he'll come to realize this is his "down" time, and he's expected to look at books and be quiet (often kids'll fall asleep). If he climbs out of his crib, you could buy one of those tents that fit over the crib, like a dome. It's a screen mesh, so the baby can see out and you can see in. It was a godsend with my youngest. You need to get some sleep.

If that doesn't work, perhaps a morning of preschool will burn off some energy 16-month olds still need a nap

[pomology]

I have cousins that I spent a significant amount of time with this summer that I think are pretty much a shining example of why Kelly is completely wrong.

They both work full time, send their children to public school, and aren't Christian (they're pretty observant Jews, but they are not Ortho and the regular service they attend is completely egalitarian, which I'm sure means that Kelly and her ilk would not approve of their religious practices).

But it is obvious, even to a casual observer I think, how much they adore their children. I won't blather on about why but one thing that sticks out in my mind totally refutes Kelly's "Parents who like their children and enjoy spending time with them wouldn't them away all day." This summer my cousins' kids went to day camp all day every weekday. What my cousin had to say about the subject was "We miss being away from them all day, but they love camp so much and have so much fun there and wish they never had to come home."

Of course, if Kelly were to admit that my cousin loves his children, she would have to admit that loving your children is about acknowledging what's best for your children, not about what's best for you. Which any sane person would probably agree with, but fundies obviously do not.

Hey Kelly, just because somebody sends their kids away all day doesn't mean they don't love them and don't enjoy spending time with them. On the contrary, it means they love their children enough to earn enough money to feed, clothe, and otherwise provide for their children, to give their children a proper education, to make sure their child has all the opportunities for growth and enrichment that they can, and generally to make sure their children has the most opportunities that they possibly can. But you wouldn't know anything about that, because you don't actually enjoy your children. You love having drones that act like your servants and who's futures you are stifling and that you think by virtue of having birthed them make you holier than everybody else.

[Shirley MacLaine]

I'm going to call my mom today and tell her she never loved me! The internet said so.

[sacrilicious]

My kid starts school next week and I'm counting down the days. :lol:

Not because I don't love/like her :roll: but because I know she NEEDS the extra stimulation. I can only do so much for her, and honestly, we drive each other crazy sometimes. She'll get to learn from experts in child education, make friends, play, etc, etc, and I get a break to take care of myself (or work! *gasp*) and we'll both appreciate each other all the more for the time apart.

What an insufferable woman she is!

[GenerationCedarchip]

The "one size fits all" approach to women that she has makes me crazy. If men have all kinds of callings in life, why wouldn't women? Not everyone has the skills or temperament to be a full-time stay at home mom(or dad for that matter). That doesn't mean they're selfish and it doesn't mean they don't love their kids.

[ladypuglover]

Well I guess I hate my kids. I breast/bottle fed them on demand, never let them cry as I tried to solve the problem asap when they were infants, held them all the time to the point of them cry to be put down, and I told them just how much I loved them. From birth on I loved to spend time with them and I have always enjoyed their company. I'm not their friend but I like and love my sons so very much more than I do any adult friend. We have had a lot of fun activities and bonding from those that my sons still talk about. I hate my kids I guess because I have seen them as people since their birth and always have treated them as someone who deserves to be treated as a person and not a toy or circus animal.

Oh, and Kelly, I always cry when my kids go back to school and rejoice when school is over for the year. I also enjoy that my kids do get to go to school as they get to be part of a bigger world that brings them such joy. You know, friends, cool teachers, sports, mentors, life skills and even things that teach my sons to be good, godly men.

[lilwriter85]

Thank you, Burris. You've nailed what's so wrong with these people. Kelly Crawford is most assuredly not speaking with anyone who sends a child to school, public or private. At best, she's overhearing conversations in WalMart or some other temple of goodness she frequents.

This is why I have a hard time being enthusiastic over events like the birth of Noah & Dorothy's baby when I know the parents expect (and are expected) to "break" him, probably before he's two. They will be encouraged if not exhorted to use the rod unsparingly, making sure that he "obeys the first time."

Ugh.

That is what I think too. She is probably hearing small tidbits here and there in public places. I wouldn't be surprised if Kelly checks out blogs or message boards of working moms or moms who have their kids in public and private schools. I have seen people post on their blogs and on message boards about how happy they will be when their kids go back to school. Kelly misunderstands and twists what she hears or reads.

[Shirley MacLaine]

It's just so uncharitable.

[emmiedahl]

A story of a clearly inadequate, selfish, working mom: One of the best parents I have ever known was a female doctor. She worked long, long hours. I babysat for her occasionally when I was in hs. When she walked in the door, her face would light up and her kids would run to her. Because she worked so much, she really gave it her all when she was 'off'.

Her children were not unhappy while she was at work. She planned lots of fun activities for them and spared no expense in giving them a first-rate childhood. But, boy did they know who their mama was. She was such a sweet, warm person; clearly her work 'charged her' and made her feel validated and important. I question whether she would have had as much emotion to 'give' if she never left the house.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Oh puh-lease. I am one week shy of having stayed/worked at home for 6 years. I've enjoyed it very much, but once I got over my initial sadness of the little squirrel leaving me for Kindergarten, I realized I'm in absolute heaven. :dance: We needed this break from each other. I already have so much more patience for her than I have in a long time. And I only have one kid because that's all my headship and I feel we can support financially and emotionally. Kelly can kiss my fat ass. My kid hops off the bus beaming with pride and bouncing with excitement and joy every day so far. She's loving school, and they will teach and stimulate her in ways I cannot.

So yeah, I'll be one of those moms every year who starts an excited countdown. Sue me.

[sacrilicious]

Oh puh-lease. I am one week shy of having stayed/worked at home for 6 years. I've enjoyed it very much, but once I got over my initial sadness of the little squirrel leaving me for Kindergarten, I realized I'm in absolute heaven. :dance: We needed this break from each other. I already have so much more patience for her than I have in a long time. And I only have one kid because that's all my headship and I feel we can support financially and emotionally. Kelly can kiss my fat ass. My kid hops off the bus beaming with pride and bouncing with excitement and joy every day so far. She's loving school, and they will teach and stimulate her in ways I cannot.

So yeah, I'll be one of those moms every year who starts an excited countdown. Sue me.

*high five*

[Burris]

It's just so uncharitable.

You hit the nail on the head.