Kelly @ GC: “Do you like your children?�

[Effie]

I've read Kelly's ebook. Her brilliant child-raising methods? Switching them, then forcing them to pray and restoring a "right relationship." If the kids refuses to stop being angry--the "session" is not over yet.

Smile or I'll hit you more, kid.--That's how you should treat your blessings.

That's interesting. I was quite curious what her child-raising methods were really about. However, I do remember this: http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/5093#.Tk1zeYKNq_I

[Hisey]

Think about it.

Kelly has a newborn and 8 other kids, whom she has to "train" and educate. Her house just blew away a few months ago. She has a husband who does not earn enough to keep the family afloat, even when they have a house. She is an unstable person to begin with, and she's around little kids all day every day, now with no home and no routine.

Then she hears moms talk about the start of school. She imagines what her day would be like if 6 of her 9 are gone for 7 hours. She must feel insanely jealous,, I mean, how could she not? But since this feeling is unacceptable, unChristian, uneverything, she turns it into attack on those innocent moms, gabbing in Walmart how they can't wait to take a shower in peace. They must be bad, it can't be her.

Hisey

Who has time to write this post since the little Hiseys went off to school recently, to the joy of all concerned.

[treemom]

Just going off the title.

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. He is an obnoxious 11 year old boy. But I love my kid so I deal with it.

[Hisey]

That's interesting. I was quite curious what her child-raising methods were really about. However, I do remember this: http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/5093#.Tk1zeYKNq_I

I'd suggest you buy her book, Teaching Children to Obey. Apply the discount and it's only $5. She does way more than hint about spanking in the book.

[Wolfie]

I feel bad for Bria. She probably had a decent first few years until her mom ended up in this garbage.

[desertvixen]

Yes, I love my daughter.

I also love that she is going to school (Kindergarten) - and SHE loves it. She gets to play with other kids, do all kinds of fun stuff, and come home to share it.

Of course, I'm one of those evil feminist working moms (in pants! and I order men around!) who relies on a stay-at-home Christian mom in-home day care provider. And you know what? SHE's happy the kids are back in school too.

[Effie]

I feel bad for Bria. She probably had a decent first few years until her mom ended up in this garbage.

I know right. I have followed Bria for quite some time. I remember she wrote in a post that she had been more boyish when she was younger and that she had felt offended when a boy wanted to open the door for her, because she was perfectly fine to do so herself. Then she went on about how wrong she had been and that she had now embraced her more feminine side and whatever. I can't find the blog entry. I think it's from her old blog "I love my siblings" which she has removed. I sort of felt that this certain post proved that she had had more of her own free will and spirit - once.

[Effie]

I'd suggest you buy her book, Teaching Children to Obey. Apply the discount and it's only $5. She does way more than hint about spanking in the book.

Okay, I guess I should cause I'm still curious. However I don't want to support her financially, but I will make an exception.

[defrauding]

I'd suggest you buy her book, Teaching Children to Obey. Apply the discount and it's only $5. She does way more than hint about spanking in the book.

As Burris pointed out, posting short excerpts for criticism falls under the "fair use" category and is perfectly legal. Any chance you could copy and paste a few things rather than suggesting we give our money to Kelly (even though it's not much money)?

[emmiedahl]

I couldn't find a free copy on Torrent; yes, I looked. I won't be giving her a damn penny.

[Shirley MacLaine]

I did it. I gave five dollars to Kelly. Excerpts forthcoming!

[GolightlyGrrl]

I did it. I gave five dollars to Kelly. Excerpts forthcoming!

Can't wait for your review!

[Shirley MacLaine]

"How early? Usually around the age of six months, and sometimes earlier, you will notice a baby beginning to exert his will. This is natural, because we are willful, sinful creatures! But this is where the training of the will must begin. Often it happens during a diaper change. She may kick and protest simply because she doesn't want to lie still. It's time for some simple training. ... simply grasp the baby's legs firmly in both hands, lean over and look her in the face, and with a calm, yet serious voice, use your choice of command. "No, Amy." Or, as in our household, "May not, Amy." ... Repeat this process as many times as is necessary. I cannot stress this enough. You must win the battles, every time."

"Once your baby begins to crawl, his curiosity is the perfect tool for training. Babies are “into

everythingâ€. Use this to your advantage. Avoid the common desire to “baby proof†your

house. You need to house proof your baby!

Set some object on the coffee table that you do not want your baby to play with. Then show

him the object, and say “May not†or give whatever your command is. He will probably look at

you, and the object, and he may not make the connection…yet. Wait for him to reach for it. At

the same time you repeat the command, calmly thump the top of his hand. (Or if you prefer, a

mild swat with a tiny switch will work.)"

"If you say, “Johnny, it’s time to put away your toys and get ready for bedâ€, does he obey

immediately? If not, it’s nobody’s fault but your own. If your answer was “noâ€, the remedy is

simple: “Johnny, (wait for him to look at you so he can’t pretend he doesn’t hear.) “It’s time to

put away your toys and get ready for bedâ€. (Johnny continues to play, because that’s what

he’s always done, and nothing ever happens except a repeated command.) But this time, you

get up from where you are sitting, and you calmly go get the switch (a thin, flexible object that

stings, but doesn’t harm). Then you give Johnny a firm swat to the behind (or upper thigh if

he’s wearing a diaper), and calmly say, “I told you to pick up your toys and get ready for bedâ€.

Usually one swat works, but just as before, the scenario MUST be repeated until obedience is

achieved. A simple, negative stimulus, administered the FIRST time there is disobedience, is the

simple solution to disobedience.

(I hate to compare child-training to dog training, but there is a basic underlying principle that

rules all creatures. We have an underground fence around our house, and our dog wears a

collar that gives him a mild shock when he crosses over that fence. He tried to go across it a

few times when we first installed it. It shocked him EVERY time. How many times do you think

he tries to cross it now? Never. He learned that a certain behavior (crossing the line) invokes

an unpleasant response, every time. So he is 100% obedient now. Simple!)"

"When a baby is born, he is positively self-centered. He has one goal in life…to figure out a way

to have all his needs fulfilled. But soon, that child must learn that he is not the center of the

universe. Sadly, many children are never taught this crucial lesson, and spend the rest of their

lives miserable, making those around them equally miserable."

"Furthermore, true respect is only accomplished when a child feels safe and secure in his

parents’ love. He must know that a parent’s motivation for discipline is out of his utmost love for him. If he feels a parent is simply trying to wield his superiority, he will never truly respect his authority."

"Working to maintain sweet communion with our children gives them the message that “we like

themâ€. And once we commit to enforcing obedience and respect, we will actually like them!

There is a whole generation of parents who have failed to raise their children properly, and as a

result, their children are simply not likeable."

"I am a firm believer that a spanking is the best method of discipline for

younger children. There is something miraculous about the “sting†of a switch applied

consistently and firmly. And I emphasize a switch. A paddle or wooden spoon or other such

instrument can bruise or injure more easily than a thin, flexible switch. I do not recommend

“time out†unless a spanking is impossible for some reason. Time-out often provokes anger and

does not bring a child to repentance. While it may be useful in some instances (a whining child

who is removed from the family until he “gets cheerfulâ€), generally a spanking is much more

effective for disobedience."

"It is good to take the child to another room away from others for his correction. You never

want to use embarrassment as a form of punishment. As you enter the room with him, he

should see that you are not angry, but rather hurt, and even dreading this duty of yours. I have

heard of parents who cried with their child as they shared in the heartache of his disobedience.

What a sweet communication of love! Again, the focus is that the child has broken God’s law,

and it should be treated as a grave offense. Explain to him that you must obey God by giving

him a spanking. That the Bible says the parent who loves his child will discipline him. It is good

to say that you are so sorry you have to do it, and that you don’t like it, etc. He should

understand your disappointment.

Once you have clearly explained the offense, and explained that you are spanking him because

you want him to learn to obey God, offer a Bible verse related to the offense."

"Then, placing the child over your lap if he is young, or over the edge of the bed if he is older,

administer a few stinging swats. It is best to spank bare skin or through thin undergarments.

Insist that the child does not kick or scream, or throw himself on the floor. This behavior

warrants another spanking until he can control himself enough to receive the discipline. If he

cannot regain control, tell him you will leave the room and come back when he has calmed

down, and he must receive another spanking for his tantrum."

"Once the spanking is over, pick him up and restore a right relationship. This is very important.

If he is angry, he may need to be given a little time. If his anger does not subside, the session is

not complete. He must come to the point of brokenness, and desiring forgiveness.

Close in prayer, thanking God for the forgiveness He has given."

Welp! I hope I didn't quote too much, bit nervous about doing the Fair Use thing, well, fairly. Although she's basically repackaging TTUAC shit (although Kel-Kel's book reads as much less overtly hateful, which, in a way, is scarier) and selling it - so. If you guys want to know anything specific about the book, just lemme know, it was such a scintillating read I'll be thrilled to crack it open again.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Think about it.

Kelly has a newborn and 8 other kids, whom she has to "train" and educate. Her house just blew away a few months ago. She has a husband who does not earn enough to keep the family afloat, even when they have a house. She is an unstable person to begin with, and she's around little kids all day every day, now with no home and no routine.

Then she hears moms talk about the start of school. She imagines what her day would be like if 6 of her 9 are gone for 7 hours. She must feel insanely jealous,, I mean, how could she not? But since this feeling is unacceptable, unChristian, uneverything, she turns it into attack on those innocent moms, gabbing in Walmart how they can't wait to take a shower in peace. They must be bad, it can't be her.

Hisey

Who has time to write this post since the little Hiseys went off to school recently, to the joy of all concerned.

I think this is an excellent point, and brings up something I've wondered about in the past...Just how jealous moms like this, who never, ever, ever, ever get a fucking break, must be of moms who do.

And I forgot to answer the initial question when going on about how wonderful the ebul public school is: Yes, I like my kid. I like her a lot. She's pretty darn cool, if I do say so myself. And getting a nice break from each other will remind me on a daily basis of how much I like her.

[Effie]

Thanks Shirley! Gosh I find this to be disturbing, but I don't know where to start really...

If a child screams when being spanked, that's not a sign of the child being a sinner (and therefore should receive an extra spanking). It's a sign that it hurts him/her.

Stupid Kelly-bitch. :angry-tappingfoot:

[Childless]

I work full time. I also love my child more than anything. I know how much I love him and he knows how much I love him. I don't give a rat's ass what Kelly thinks.

[hoipolloi]

Thank you Shirley although it disgusts me to read her crap.

Kelly appears to be another believer in ritualized abuse of children. And I agree that her "book" is a thinly disguised version of TTUAC.

Maybe the Pearls should sue her over intellectual property rights.

[Effie]

I don't give a rat's ass what Kelly thinks.

I don't think we should care about what Kelly thinks. Kelly is not the kind of mother I would want to be like. I don't want to be the kind of mother who abuses her child.

I find both emotional and physical abuse advocated in her book. Threatening to spank if the child doesn't obey is emotional abuse.

[Burris]

Repeat this process as many times as is necessary. I cannot stress this enough. You must win the battles, every time."

I don't have kids, and Kelly has nine of them so she certainly knows more about child-rearing than I do.

That said, however, I'm not sure it's such a good idea to treat your own children as adversaries against whom you must 'win battles.'

My mother tells me if I ever need to take a stand with a child, then I must stick to my word lest my inconsistency come out in their attitude. That seems like a reasonable position: Of course adults are in a better position to give directions than children are, since kids lack experience and brain-power to do for themselves.

Fundie parents recognize kids don't have the mental wattage to make their own decisions, by virtue of limited experience and still-developing brains, and yet these same parents dole out inappropriate punishments on the assumption these kids - even babies - can be willful in the same way as adults are.

But they can't - especially not infants. Even toddlers' wills are guided by a limited understanding, for example, of the difference between needs and wants.

"Once your baby begins to crawl, his curiosity is the perfect tool for training. Babies are “into

everythingâ€. Use this to your advantage. Avoid the common desire to “baby proof†your

house. You need to house proof your baby!

Set some object on the coffee table that you do not want your baby to play with. Then show

him the object, and say “May not†or give whatever your command is. He will probably look at

you, and the object, and he may not make the connection…yet. Wait for him to reach for it. At

the same time you repeat the command, calmly thump the top of his hand. (Or if you prefer, a

mild swat with a tiny switch will work.)"

...or you can stop being such a lazy bitch and spend the few hours it takes to make sure your house isn't a fuckin' death trap - but then that would take more effort than any one arrow deserves.

This is why child-hoarders such as Kelly are happy with the whip: Because other methods of discipline, and other ways of home arrangement, are more time-consuming than the use of pain as a primary deterrent. Kelly needs at least a few spare minutes each day to pinch out another "book."

If you say, “Johnny, it’s time to put away your toys and get ready for bedâ€, does he obey immediately? If not, it’s nobody’s fault but your own. If your answer was “noâ€, the remedy is simple: “Johnny, (wait for him to look at you so he can’t pretend he doesn’t hear.) “It’s time to put away your toys and get ready for bedâ€. (Johnny continues to play, because that’s what he’s always done, and nothing ever happens except a repeated command.) But this time, you get up from where you are sitting, and you calmly go get the switch (a thin, flexible object that stings, but doesn’t harm). Then you give Johnny a firm swat to the behind (or upper thigh if he’s wearing a diaper), and calmly say, “I told you to pick up your toys and get ready for bedâ€

Hmmm...or maybe you can assign Johnny additional chores or take away privileges if he fails to obey, reserving a solid, open-handed smack for if he continues to be obstinate.

These may be children, but they're still people. And they're not just any people; they're the flesh and blood of their parents. There should be a way of disciplining kids that maximizes results while minimizing humiliation.

A simple, negative stimulus, administered the FIRST time there is disobedience, is the simple solution to disobedience.

Maybe, but why does the negative stimulus have to be by corporal punishment? That should probably be reserved for weightier matters. If you use one method of discipline for every kind of infraction, then kids won't learn until much later than usual which infractions should be seen as the more serious or/and dangerous.

I hate to compare child-training to dog training, but

...but she's going to do it anyway. That's a running theme in fundie child-training literature.

Of course, I wouldn't even train a dog the way some of these fundies treat their kids.

We have an underground fence around our house, and our dog wears a collar that gives him a mild shock when he crosses over that fence.

I'd love to take that shock-collar and shove it up Kelly's ass.

Put out the money for obedience classes and install an actual fence, rather than resorting to the barbarism of a shock collar, or don't own a dog. It's that simple.

When a baby is born, he is positively self-centered. He has one goal in life…to figure out a way to have all his needs fulfilled.

Babies don't have any goals. They're barely sentient.

Working to maintain sweet communion with our children gives them the message that “we like themâ€. And once we commit to enforcing obedience and respect, we will actually like them!

Because, duh, parental acceptance is conditional on immediate, unquestioning obedience. That really is going to bite Kelly in the ass one of these days.

There is a whole generation of parents who have failed to raise their children properly, and as a

result, their children are simply not likeable.

A whooooole generation of kids. And Kelly would know: She overhears conversations about them all the time.

I am a firm believer that a spanking is the best method of discipline for younger children. There is something miraculous about the “sting†of a switch applied consistently and firmly.

People don't like being whipped, so they'll do what it takes to avoid that. It's not a miracle, dumbass. You're just too lazy for more time-consuming but less cruel methods of discipline.

It is good to take the child to another room away from others for his correction. You never want to use embarrassment as a form of punishment. As you enter the room with him, he should see that you are not angry, but rather hurt, and even dreading this duty of yours.

So, rather than striking in anger, one should instead be a manipulative, calculating brute who pretends to be saddened by the "necessity" when in reality she's just too lazy or overwhelmed for anything else.

I have heard of parents who cried with their child as they shared in the heartache of his disobedience.

Give me an honest asshole any day. At least he isn't a hypocrite who tries to disguise his contemptuous laziness as something more noble.

Again, the focus is that the child has broken God’s law, and it should be treated as a grave offense.

"Don't touch the shiny glass jar I intentionally left out to entice you. The Bible forbids it!"

This behavior warrants another spanking until he can control himself enough to receive the discipline.

And what if he simply doesn't? I'm entirely serious here: How long should a parent spank her child, with an instrument, if he cries about being hit?

The Schatzes did it until the child suffered organ failure and died. I guess that's one way of making sure your kid never sasses you again.

[ladypuglover]

I don't have kids, and Kelly has nine of them so she certainly knows more about child-rearing than I do.

That said, however, I'm not sure it's such a good idea to treat your own children as adversaries against whom you must 'win battles.'

My mother tells me if I ever need to take a stand with a child, then I must stick to my word lest my inconsistency come out in their attitude. That seems like a reasonable position: Of course adults are in a better position to give directions than children are, since kids lack experience and brain-power to do for themselves.

Burris, it's called chose your battles wisely. Don't sweat the little things of your daughter wanting to wear tutus to school when she is going to school happily or that your son won't eat peas but eats all the other veggies. Save your effort for kid refuses to bathe or is failing at school or clean his room once a year. ;)

Fundie parents recognize kids don't have the mental wattage to make their own decisions, by virtue of limited experience and still-developing brains, and yet these same parents dole out inappropriate punishments on the assumption these kids - even babies - can be willful in the same way as adults are.

But they can't - especially not infants. Even toddlers' wills are guided by a limited understanding, for example, of the difference between needs and wants.

...or you can stop being such a lazy bitch and spend the few hours it takes to make sure your house isn't a fuckin' death trap - but then that would take more effort than any one arrow deserves.

Amen!

This is why child-hoarders such as Kelly are happy with the whip: Because other methods of discipline, and other ways of home arrangement, are more time-consuming than the use of pain as a primary deterrent. Kelly needs at least a few spare minutes each day to pinch out another "book."

Hmmm...or maybe you can assign Johnny additional chores or take away privileges if he fails to obey, reserving a solid, open-handed smack for if he continues to be obstinate.

Or better yet, set up a bedtime ritual where the child knows what to expect and when it needs to be done by.

These may be children, but they're still people. And they're not just any people; they're the flesh and blood of their parents. There should be a way of disciplining kids that maximizes results while minimizing humiliation.

I'd love to take that shock-collar and shove it up Kelly's ass.

Put out the money for obedience classes and install an actual fence, rather than resorting to the barbarism of a shock collar, or don't own a dog. It's that simple.

WE had to use the shock coller for a few months when our lab decided no amount of training or fences was going to keep her from the ice cream man and his sweeties. She learned after the first shock and that was before we knew of other methods. :? :doh:

Because, duh, parental acceptance is conditional on immediate, unquestioning obedience. That really is going to bite Kelly in the ass one of these days.

Amen to that.

There is a whole generation of parents who have failed to raise their children properly, and as a

result, their children are simply not likeable.

A whooooole generation of kids. And Kelly would know: She overhears conversations about them all the time.

You mean she makes up things to prove her point.

Lady 1, Johnny can't wait to start his first day of kindergarten.

Lady 2, I just bet, my kids would come home to tell me how much they loved it.

Kelly: Those ladies hate their kids.

I am a firm believer that a spanking is the best method of discipline for younger children. There is something miraculous about the “sting†of a switch applied conistently and firmly.

People don't like being whipped, so they'll do what it takes to avoid that. It's not a miracle, dumbass. You're just too lazy for more time-consuming but less cruel methods of discipline.

It is good to take the child to another room away from others for his correction. You never want to use embarrassment as a form of punishment. As you enter the room with him, he should see that you are not angry, but rather hurt, and even dreading this duty of yours.

I concur

So, rather than striking in anger, one should instead be a manipulative, calculating brute who pretends to be saddened by the "necessity" when in reality she's just too lazy or overwhelmed for anything else.

[aggythenostic]

I was spanked as a kid, although not egregiously. Although I adored my mother [and she was no Kelly], I also feared her, and it adversely affected our relationship. I wish she had not flown off the handle and not made me afraid and then we'd have been able to communicate better as adults. Fear and respect are NOT the same, no matter what that idiot claims.

It's not wonder these morons all fear "government" and the "authorities." Because I'm sure if CPS came to the door, they'd have a few questions. Training kids to jump when you say how high is a lot easier when they never leave the house without your - uh - guidance. What if they went to school and they found out how other kids are raised? What if they told a teacher? What if they asked questions?

The truth is that these women end up with so many children, they aren't mothers, they're army generals. The whole thing is horrible and sad and I hope hope hope that Bria escapes but she probably won't.

[Linnea]

Here's what I wonder: if you're supposed to take the kid to another room to administer punishment, who's watching the other umpty-twelve while you do that?

[Shirley MacLaine]

I never understood the whole thing where you apologize to your child while you're spanking them - this hurts me more than it hurts you, I don't want to do this! Blah blah. It was ridiculous to me as a child because I knew they didn't have to.

[alphaeta08]

Dude, my mom is thrilled that I'm moving out for good soon, and she was always thrilled when we went to school. She was also thrilled when we came home. She was a SAHM, and believe me Kelly, we were her life, but she had shit to do! Geez, I can't imagine never getting a break from my parents! Seriously, the kids need it, too, and everyone's happier when we're not hanging out around the house together all day.

[Effie]

The truth is that these women end up with so many children, they aren't mothers, they're army generals. The whole thing is horrible and sad and I hope hope hope that Bria escapes but she probably won't.

I'd say "Free Bria".