Hobby Lobby Invests in Abortion Pill Manufacturers

[Cleopatra7]

Ooh, someone's gonna be in trouble! :naughty: :penguin-no:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/0 ... d=webmail8

(link not broken because it's HuffPo)

Seriously, it's obvious now that the only reason Hobby Lobby is making a fuss over this is because Obamacare.

ETA I need to make clear that HL not just invested in the disputed forms of BC, but in drugs that cause actual abortions:

The companies Hobby Lobby invests in include Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, which makes the Plan B morning-after pill and ParaGard, a copper IUD, as well as Pfizer, the maker of the abortion-inducing drugs Cytotec and Prostin E2. Hobby Lobby's mutual funds also invest in two health insurance companies that cover surgical abortions, abortion drugs, and emergency contraception in their health care policies.

[anti-antichoice]

Do Joshy and the FRC know? because with that Hobby Lobby just lost almost all the people who supported them.

[jerkit]

Do Joshy and the FRC know? because with that Hobby Lobby just lost almost all the people who supported them.

Nah, when it's about money/jobsjobsjobs, it's great.

When it's about actual women in need of contraceptive services, it's sin.

[Curious]

truth always outs, as they say. I hope this news comes back to bite them right in the ass.

[Ellimenopy]

Do Joshy and the FRC know? because with that Hobby Lobby just lost almost all the people who supported them.

Not necessarily. People who own mutual funds do not generally know all the companies whose stock they hold. They're managed by a financial firm, and the client merely gets to pick certain packages based on how aggressively those funds are supposed to perform. You CAN ask for a list of these holdings (and you should), but it's easy enough to never do so.

Hobby Lobby probably did not know explicitly that they were supporting this, and will consequently just switch funds and shrug and truthfully say, "We didn't know."

I have plenty of reasons to be disgusted with Hobby Lobby, but this isn't one of them.

[Full enough quiver]

You would think that a company that is as obsessed with abortion as hobby lobby would do their research. I mean, they don't want to provide health coverage for their employees on the off chance that some poor innocent fetus might not get carried to term, but they don't bother to check where their money is being invested? They should put their money where there mouth is, and only invest in Christian companies. Because Jesus.

[Firiel]

And it's easy enough to invest in companies that don't do non-Christian things. I work for a Christian non-profit, and the retirement fund/company/thing (I have NO idea how this stuff works!) they work through for employee 401(k)s is specifically Christian and doesn't invest in companies that are directly involved in stuff like porn or abortions.

[doggie]

Not necessarily. People who own mutual funds do not generally know all the companies whose stock they hold. They're managed by a financial firm, and the client merely gets to pick certain packages based on how aggressively those funds are supposed to perform. You CAN ask for a list of these holdings (and you should), but it's easy enough to never do so.

Hobby Lobby probably did not know explicitly that they were supporting this, and will consequently just switch funds and shrug and truthfully say, "We didn't know."

I have plenty of reasons to be disgusted with Hobby Lobby, but this isn't one of them.

Kind of like they did not know their insurance paid for the very things they are now protesting over.

[Palimpsest]

How delightful. Caught with their sticky little fingers in the abortion cookie jar!

I can definitely be disgusted with Hobby Lobby about this. You don't go to court and waste taxpayers' money with a suit saying that something is against your religion when your own investments are against your supposed religion. You want to be very sure that something embarrassing like this isn't going to come up to bite you from behind before making a big stink.

There is a snappy legal term for this I'm positive. I just can't remember it!

[MrsYoungie]

Does Hobby Lobby know that their employees are paid with money which can be exchanged for a wide variety of goods and services? Besides rent and food, they could be buying porn, atheistic books, YIKES! Maybe they should start paying them with Hobby Lobby gift cards instead. Then they could only buy wholesome Christian things.

There are ways of investing in mutual funds etc. that meet ones ethical standards. It's not that hard to do. Sorry HL - Gotcha!!!

[fundiefan]

You would think that a company that is as obsessed with abortion as hobby lobby would do their research. I mean, they don't want to provide health coverage for their employees on the off chance that some poor innocent fetus might not get carried to term, but they don't bother to check where their money is being invested? They should put their money where there mouth is, and only invest in Christian companies. Because Jesus.

This.

If you're going to use the media to cry persecution while recruiting good Chrtistian dollars for your wallet, you should know where your investments are held. If you're going to attempt to take on the US Government in the name of not killing the babies, you really should make sure that no part of you or your business is involved in killing said babies.

It's careless and reeks of entitlement and persecution complex.

[DGayle]

You would think that a company that is as obsessed with abortion as hobby lobby would do their research. I mean, they don't want to provide health coverage for their employees on the off chance that some poor innocent fetus might not get carried to term, but they don't bother to check where their money is being invested? They should put their money where there mouth is, and only invest in Christian companies. Because Jesus.

Agreed' "We didn't know" isn't going to hold water.

[DGayle]

How delightful. Caught with their sticky little fingers in the abortion cookie jar!

I can definitely be disgusted with Hobby Lobby about this. You don't go to court and waste taxpayers' money with a suit saying that something is against your religion when your own investments are against your supposed religion. You want to be very sure that something embarrassing like this isn't going to come up to bite you from behind before making a big stink.

There is a snappy legal term for this I'm positive. I just can't remember it!

It's frivolous. They claim to be against abortion while investing in abortion.

[DGayle]

Does Hobby Lobby know that their employees are paid with money which can be exchanged for a wide variety of goods and services? Besides rent and food, they could be buying porn, atheistic books, YIKES! Maybe they should start paying them with Hobby Lobby gift cards instead. Then they could only buy wholesome Christian things.

There are ways of investing in mutual funds etc. that meet ones ethical standards. It's not that hard to do. Sorry HL - Gotcha!!!

Wholesome Christian goods made in a country that forces abortions on women who are at full-term.

[salex]

Not necessarily. People who own mutual funds do not generally know all the companies whose stock they hold. They're managed by a financial firm, and the client merely gets to pick certain packages based on how aggressively those funds are supposed to perform. You CAN ask for a list of these holdings (and you should), but it's easy enough to never do so.

Hobby Lobby probably did not know explicitly that they were supporting this, and will consequently just switch funds and shrug and truthfully say, "We didn't know."

I have plenty of reasons to be disgusted with Hobby Lobby, but this isn't one of them.

There are at least two companies who offer "christian" safe stock holdings.. Timothy funds and some other one--and probably others. IF they cared as much about not supporting contraceptives or abortion as they now weepingly say they do, this should have been an issue--along with them perhaps not having paid for several of the pills they want to stop paying for now over the last many years. Other organizations who really care about a political or social issue make it a point to avoid tobacco companies, drilling companies, companies who do business in certain countries. Hobby Lobby did not. Nor did they care if they made money buying goods from China for cheap... apparently they could overlook the one child policy, infanticide and abandoned girl babies and abortion more or less condoned if not forced, as long as it made them money and wasn't White American Babies...

Screw them and their lawsuit. IF they win, no workplace law is safe, because anyone can find something that is against their religion--from selling the day after pill to hiring women.

[Librul]

There are filters that financial companies can and do use all the time for investors. It's not rocket science to avoid bomb makers and drug companies.

[Full enough quiver]

That's just it. If John or Jane Doe said they didn't know where their money was being invested, fine, I believe it. I have no clue where my 401K or IRA dollars are being invested. But I'm not going to the supreme court, bitching that my religious freedom is being violated because my employee might use birth control. If I did, I'd make damn sure that my money was being invested in companies whose moral values aligned with my religion. It doesn't take any extra time to let their financial team know that they want their investments to go to "Christian" companies. I'm sure the reason they don't is because they want to invest in the most profitable companies, proving that it's about money, not morals with them.

[MrsYoungie]

I sometimes listen to Dave Ramsay on the local Xtian radio station - mostly because he has some good financial advice. However - today, probably in response to the Hobby Lobby backlash, he was mad as hell about people questioning where his mutual funds are actually invested. It was hilarious. "Don't you dare call me a hypocrite because maybe 1/5 of 1 percent of my savings is invested in something shady" (or words to that effect).

Yeah, it's all fun and games when you're making money off of something "shady", but don't dare make me *pay* for somebody else's potential shadiness. LOLOL

Dave Ramsay: I dare to call you and Hobby Lobby hypocritical. Sue me, asshole.

[GolightlyGrrl]

So Hobby Lobby doesn't want to pay for ebil abortion pills and if they are made to do so it's the persecution of Godly Christians, yet they don't mind making the filthy lucre off of ebil abortion pills.

This isn't about religious liberty; this is about corporate greed. Hobby Lobby can suck a bag of dicks.

[slickcat79]

Not necessarily. People who own mutual funds do not generally know all the companies whose stock they hold. They're managed by a financial firm, and the client merely gets to pick certain packages based on how aggressively those funds are supposed to perform. You CAN ask for a list of these holdings (and you should), but it's easy enough to never do so.

Hobby Lobby probably did not know explicitly that they were supporting this, and will consequently just switch funds and shrug and truthfully say, "We didn't know."

I have plenty of reasons to be disgusted with Hobby Lobby, but this isn't one of them.

I absolutely believe they didn't know or have any reason to know, but I can still see it as comparable to their birth control argument. They covered the cost of employee BC for years because they didn't know (and had no reason to know) what their employees were spending their healthcare dollars on. I don't work for fundie assholes, but I'm pretty sure my employer isn't calling up Aetna to figure out how many of their employees are on the pill. By the same token, they're not going to call up their investment managers and figure out every single company that every fraction of their money is invested in.

If HL turns over their investments to a financial firm and can't be expected to know what they're investing in, why should they not also turn over their healthcare needs to an insurance company and not know what that money is being spent on? I think it's a little ridiculous to expect a large company to know where all their money is going once it passes through multiple intermediaries, but Hobby Lobby seems to think it's a BFD...so they should be consistent.

[Stephanie66]

There is at least one fund for Catholics which steers clear of any birth control or abortion stocks. http://avemariafunds.com/ And someone upthread mentioned another.

There are LOTS of moral funds now for many different reasons. Investors who want to steer clear of tobacco, or Monsanto or the Koch brothers...pretty much any company or ideal can be avoided. There is really no excuse for a company going to the Supreme Court over their objection paying for to birth control on religious grounds to not have "clean hands' in ALL aspects of their company's financial dealings.

[RosyDaisy]

I'm about to post the OP to my Facebook, and then sit back and wait for the barrage of hateful replies. I so love ruffling fundie feathers.

[RosyDaisy]

Hubby Lobby has their britches in a wad for one reason only. They hate that we have a liberal Democratic black man for president. If a white Republican came up with the ACA, they would be praising him right now. You cannot convince me that HL didn't know their health insurance paid for birth control, buys merchandize from China which has a 1 child policy/advocates abortion, ad invests in companies that manufacture BC. Nope. Not at all. HL can take it's hypocritical freedom of religion rhetoric ad stick up their asses!

[Ms Jess]

I posted a link to this info from Mother Jones on my Facebook. I got a couple of "likes" from like-minded people and a couple of comments from a former co-worker. She is pro-choice but also pro-small gov't and anti-Obamacare. She made a couple of incomprehensible claims which I tried to refute based on what I thought her point was. I don't think I got any where with her, mostly because she cannot debate logically. No one else peeped a word, especially not my republican, pro-life mother who was so torn up about Hobby Lobby maybe closing its doors forever over this.

[Mama Mia]

Hubby Lobby has their britches in a wad for one reason only. They hate that we have a liberal Democratic black man for president. If a white Republican came up with the ACA, they would be praising him right now. You cannot convince me that HL didn't know their health insurance paid for birth control, buys merchandize from China which has a 1 child policy/advocates abortion, ad invests in companies that manufacture BC. Nope. Not at all. HL can take it's hypocritical freedom of religion rhetoric ad stick up their asses!

Republicans ARE the ones who came up with the ACA. Some differences, of course, but it was their counter measure to the sort of health care system that the Clinton's wanted.

politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

Eta: that site rates it as half true that the HEART act was the GOP's version of Obamacare, but given the striking similarities I think it's mostly true.