Tiger Mom Lists the Most Successful Groups in America

[Cleopatra7]

I guess Amy Chua must have another book coming out...

http://www.businessinsider.com/tiger-mo ... ist-2014-1

(link not broken, because it's a mainstream news site)

[2xx1xy1JD]

Seriously, you do not need to be a Harvard prof to notice that some groups, on average, do better than others.

I wonder if they'll address selection bias. For some of these groups, it's not being from culture X that makes a difference. It's being from culture X and being one of the very few that is elite enough or gutsy enough to come to the United States. For example, if you look at Iranians in North America (I happen to live and work near a huge Iranian community), you'll notice a few things. Many immigrants are part of religious minorities (Baha'is, Jews, etc.). Many came from more urban and/or educated backgrounds. Many opposed the regime. Many are quite anxious to throw off some of the restrictions of their former country. Many are quite pro-Western. If they do well here, that's not an endorsement of how things work in Iran. It's an endorsement the sort of traits that someone must have if they managed to survive the regime, recognize the brutality and corruption and oppression, and either escape or qualify for immigration.

[lilwriter85]

I agree with 2xx, it is easy to see that some groups do better than others. I read a couple of articles about this book a couple of days back and there is controversy and some are viewing Chua and her husband as racists and some people have mentioned that some of the groups mentioned by Chua and her husband are sometimes who came to the U.S. already wealthy.

I wasn't surprised to see Mormons listed there, but I hope Chua found her research that there are some Mormon families that are always poor due to their family sizes and not having a high income. During the Jodi Arias trial, I got the sense from the testimony and various articles that the murder victim Travis Alexander was a bit desperate to fit in with wealthier Mormons and one of his Mormon mentors was a Phoenix area surgeon. He and his siblings had a troubled childhood due to drug addict parents and the grandmother who introduced them to the LDS church wasn't wealthy. I think Travis was really motivated to have financial success and I don't blame him for wanting that. But he didn't have a whole lot of resources and the MLM company he worked for has the usual shady rumors. Travis always gave off the Mormon yuppie wannabe vibe.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Can I rewrite the list of great traits?

1. Be part of a group where most members only got to come to the United States if they were educated elites and/or had businesses.

If you cherry-pick your immigrants so that only the smartest and most successful qualify, guess what? You get smart and successful immigrants! Many Nigerians came originally on student visas, and many Indians are graduates of elite technical institutes. Of course they'll be smart and value education.

2. Arrive at the right place at the right time.

The biggest wave of Jewish immigrants arrived in the United States between 1880 and WWI, and the ships tended to arrive in New York. That happened to be a time and place where public education was available, where the economy was growing and where there was tremendous opportunity. The ones who stayed in Europe weren't nearly as lucky.

3. Focus in the right direction.

Many groups tend to direct their kids in certain directions for jobs. It's just that some of these directions end up being better than others. If you live in West Virginia, you have better-than-average odds of becoming a coal miner. If you tell your kids from birth that they will be doctors, you have better-than-average odds that they'll do so. Economic realities shift over time - something that is great job at one point may be a lousy job if the economy changes.

[maybeizfundie]

I love the rewrite!

[August]

Did anyone hear the NPR piece in disability? The people interviewed did not know there where jobs where you sat down. They didn't even know such a thing existed!

[Stephanie66]

Did anyone hear the NPR piece in disability? The people interviewed did not know there where jobs where you sat down. They didn't even know such a thing existed!

Yes. That shocked me.

[YPestis]

Can I rewrite the list of great traits?

1. Be part of a group where most members only got to come to the United States if they were educated elites and/or had businesses.

If you cherry-pick your immigrants so that only the smartest and most successful qualify, guess what? You get smart and successful immigrants! Many Nigerians came originally on student visas, and many Indians are graduates of elite technical institutes. Of course they'll be smart and value education.

2. Arrive at the right place at the right time.

The biggest wave of Jewish immigrants arrived in the United States between 1880 and WWI, and the ships tended to arrive in New York. That happened to be a time and place where public education was available, where the economy was growing and where there was tremendous opportunity. The ones who stayed in Europe weren't nearly as lucky.

3. Focus in the right direction.

Many groups tend to direct their kids in certain directions for jobs. It's just that some of these directions end up being better than others. If you live in West Virginia, you have better-than-average odds of becoming a coal miner. If you tell your kids from birth that they will be doctors, you have better-than-average odds that they'll do so. Economic realities shift over time - something that is great job at one point may be a lousy job if the economy changes.

Yep, I think most of Chau's groups filled at least one of those categories.

Certain immigrant groups are successful because they are a self-selecting population. People from these groups will be the first to tell you this.

I particularly like #3 because so many people think that Jews or Asians or "name your favored group of the month" must be successful because they valued X. Well yes and no, that group valued something that American society also valued. Groups that valued being a doctor tended to do well because doctors do well in this country. If an immigrant group came from a place where many people become chefs and do well financially with that, they are more likely to want their children to enter culinary school but that group may struggle financially because in this country, chefs will not be as successful as other careers.

Other times, groups are successful because they stress traits which work favorably in our current economy. Currently, attending college and graduate school contributes to financial success. A group which stresses academic excellence will do better financially than a group which does not. This was not always the case. In the past, being a landowner or learning a skilled trade was probably a better option than going to college (which was more a place for the wealthy to send their children to).

I am very grateful that my parents had the elite credentials to immigrate to the US, and to come from a culture which stressed academic excellence because what works in the old country works even better in the US (i.e doing well academically in China is a good path to upward mobility but sees better results in the US). However, someone coming from a cultural which did not traditionally stress academics and may end up less successful does not make them "inferior".....it does mean a period of transition needs to be provided so that new groups can learn how to navigate this new country.