Rick Perry's Army of God

[dawn9476]

http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-stor ... rmy-of-god

Article about far, far right crazies like Bryan Fischer who think of themselves as apostles and that Rick Perry is their key to take over the government because that is what god is telling them. Rachel Maddow also did segments on her show last night about this and interviewed the author of the article.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Wow - I'm not so familiar with the pentacostals so this is some interesting stuff.

As a sidenote: fundie churches up my way are already very much abuzz over Perry. If the prayer sheets in family member's homes are anything to go by, they'e praying that he'll run, win and bring the country back to its "godly roots."

[Austin]

I have a feeling that Rick Perry will be the nominee for the GOP.

[BlackHawk]

I am so sick of these people. Godly my ass.

[demgirl]

Scary stuff. If he runs and then wins, I will so be like...

:animals-dogrun: :auto-camptrailer: :auto-biker: :auto-car: :auto-dirtbike: :auto-iroc: :auto-layrubber: :auto-sportbike:

Sorry for all the smilies. I just need to make it really clear that I would be outta here! Luckily, I think he'd have a problem jumping into the race at this point. Normally he could declare now and still be okay, but I think way too much money has already been committed to other candidates and he would have trouble building up his war chest. It's like in 2004 when the Dems begged Wes Clark to run because we needed a tough, ex-miliary guy, and then he entered the race late, and it just so wasn't happening.

[Austin]

He will certainly try to tamp down the BSC connections he has and present himself as just a wholesome, Christian man to the (quickly decreasing) moderate wing of the GOP. Those connections and his own BSC views need to be brought to light by the media, and not just on Rachel Maddow. (I love Rachel, but only those of us on the left watch her and we already knows he and his ilk are loons). GOP moderates who are not evangelicals or fundies will realize right away that this stuff is nuts.

[demgirl]

I just think that moneywise, he doesn't have time. I do wonder, though, how the Republicans are planning to cobble together a plurality of votes next year in the presidential election? I can't imagine the Tea Partiers and the extremists that have moved into the Republican party voting for Romney, and I can't imagine the more mainstream Republicans and independents voting for someone like Bachmann.

Even a year ago, I would have called Obama as a one term president and been fairly sure of my guess. Now, I still think by all objective standardst taht most people view his presidency as anything from "not optimal" to "major disaster"; and yet, I just don't see how the Republicans are going to be able to get enough votes to beat the votes that Obama will never lose.

[Guest Anonymous]

The Democratic Party, one prominent member believes, is controlled by Jezebel and three lesser demons. Some prophets even claim to have seen demons at public meetings.

Okay Free Jingerites, time to confess! Which of you Jezebels and demons are running the Democratic Party?

As for those "prophets" I think they need to lay off the drugs.

*Edited to correct a riffle.

[demgirl]

Okay Free Jingerites, time to confess! Which of you Jezebels and demons are running the Democratic Party?

As for those "prophets" I think they need to lay off the drugs.

*Edited to correct a riffle.

Seriously? You've never seen the demons? You must not be donating enough to the party! For $100 a year, you get to feed one of them a kitty at your local party headquarters. And the Jezebel is Hilary. Duh.

[Terrie]

Seriously? You've never seen the demons? You must not be donating enough to the party! For $100 a year, you get to feed one of them a kitty at your local party headquarters. And the Jezebel is Hilary. Duh.

At $1000, you get to feed them a Republican's newborn baby girl. It's $1500 for a baby boy, however.

[Guest Anonymous]

Seriously? You've never seen the demons? You must not be donating enough to the party! For $100 a year, you get to feed one of them a kitty at your local party headquarters. And the Jezebel is Hilary. Duh.

Damn, I am obviously donating wrong. The Red Cross has never let me feed a kitten to a demon.

This IHOP = International House of Prayer business is ticking me off. Come on people, IHOP is for pancakes!

The Response itself seems patterned on TheCall, day-long worship and prayer rallies usually laced with anti-gay and anti-abortion messages. TheCall—also the name of a Kansas City-based organization—is led by Lou Engle, an apostle who looks a bit like Mr. Magoo and has the unnerving habit of rocking back and forth while shouting at his audience in a raspy voice. (Engle is also closely associated with the International House of Prayer—, Mike Bickle’s 24/7 prayer center in Kansas City.) Engle frequently mobilizes his followers in the service of earthly causes, holding raucous prayer events in California to help pass Prop 8, the anti-gay marriage initiative, and making an appearance in Uganda last year to lend aid to those trying to pass a law that would have imposed the death penalty on homosexuals. But Engle's larger aim is Christian control of government.

“The church’s vocation is to rule history with God,†he has said. “We are called into the very image of the Trinity himself, that we are to be His friends and partners for world dominion.â€

This is almost too scary to snark on, although I appreciate the Mr. Magoo reference.

[Guest Anonymous]

Okay Free Jingerites, time to confess! Which of you Jezebels and demons are running the Democratic Party?

As for those "prophets" I think they need to lay off the drugs.

*Edited to correct a riffle.

That, or share them with the rest of us.

[Austin]

I just think that moneywise, he doesn't have time. I do wonder, though, how the Republicans are planning to cobble together a plurality of votes next year in the presidential election? I can't imagine the Tea Partiers and the extremists that have moved into the Republican party voting for Romney, and I can't imagine the more mainstream Republicans and independents voting for someone like Bachmann.

Even a year ago, I would have called Obama as a one term president and been fairly sure of my guess. Now, I still think by all objective standardst taht most people view his presidency as anything from "not optimal" to "major disaster"; and yet, I just don't see how the Republicans are going to be able to get enough votes to beat the votes that Obama will never lose.

Mitt Romney would be it, except that he's mormon. As offensive as this is to mormons, I don't believe Americans, particularly southern evangelicals, will vote for a mormon for president. Same thing with Jon Huntsman. And while Romney is running as a conservative, he hasn't governed as one when he had the chance and his opponents will bang that drum and is all he can do is what he's done: flip-flop. As far as money, I don't think it will be a problem. The large corporations will get in line, thanks in part to the Supreme Court. Republicans have deep pockets and once they coalesce around someone they can mostly support, the money will flow.

Then there's Pawlenty who is duller that Gore ever thought of being - and that's dull.

Ron Paul is a whackadoodle dressed up as a libertarian and most people I know, even those on the right, seem to recognize that. Herman Cain is a self-professed religious bigot, outspoken in particular on his hatred of muslims. May be enough to win the haters, but not very attractive to thinking people (moderates, independents, etc.) Plus I think he's got lousy name recognition.

Rick Santorum's beliefs are probably not very different from Perry's, just a different flavor, but his problem is that he's been in the public eye so long that the crazeeee has leaked out and, again, even those on the non-religious or semi-religious right are just like, "hell to the no" on Santorum.

Newt Gingrich has way too much baggage. The right wing of the GOP will never get behind someone with three failed marriages, adultery, etc.

And no one needs to point out the obvious problems with Palin and Bachmann.

The GOP needs to find someone who will unite them all AND be able to attract independent voters. A person perceived as such could beat Obama, no question. Neither the right wing nor the left wing has enough voters for a majority, so it's really all about attracting independents. That's the only way to win.

I think if Perry could hide or obscure his extremist religious views, he could be a threat.

Then again, at this point, 14 or 15 months out from the 2008 election, I would have predicted a different outcome, so what do I know?

edited as I posted two different versions of the same post AND messed up the quotes - duh!

[Rachel333]

- I just need to make it really clear that I would be outta here!

It's such a stereotypical thing to say and almost no one follows through on it, but I feel the same way. I am actually seriously making plans to leave if one of the crazy Republicans wins. I'll be a senior in college that year, so that's actually good timing for me to get out of here, and I've been looking at grad schools outside the US anyway.

[urban explorer]

I must say where I live in Canada we see our fair share of nut jobs but not as crazy as in the U.S. Our current mayor is loony thou, we paid for him and not sure who else went to China to talk to there president, anyway they were getting ready for the meeting as he suddenly says he wants to go to Starbucks there wasn’t much time but hey he wanted to go, 45 min later they find one expecting him to get his drink so they could go but no, he wanted to twitter that he was in China and looking at a Starbucks on our dime what a tool. Maybe he thought he was the cats ass when he did that but come on. Shakes head

[Austin]

It's such a stereotypical thing to say and almost no one follows through on it, but I feel the same way. I am actually seriously making plans to leave if one of the crazy Republicans wins. I'll be a senior in college that year, so that's actually good timing for me to get out of here, and I've been looking at grad schools outside the US anyway.

Yeah, and although I doubt I'll ever leave this country, I do realize that one wrong judge on the Supreme Court and a lot of freedoms we take for granted will be in trouble, in the name of religion (although they never admit that). Besides that, a president, on his own, does not have that much power to unilaterally change things, and even on the nomination, they have to get by the senate.

As much as we should be concerned about who we vote for president, we should be even more concerned with who we're sending to Washington in the senate and the house. As we've seen recently with the financial debacle, that is where the real power lies. A republican president with a strong democratic majority in both houses and we can probably ride it out. A republican in the white house with a strong republican majority in both houses - big trouble. And not just for liberals. Ultimately, big trouble for the people that voted them in.

[luckylassie]

Oy vey! I honestly hope that Perry loses. I will definitely be at the polls to go against him. I wasn't old enough in 08' to vote but I was sooo happy to throw Sarah Pallin's vice presidential loss in my right wing family member's face. My dad was telling me last night about how my right wing grandma practically fumed with anger when Bill Clinton got elected the first time. My uncle was about to spit some right wing line out but got cut off right away. :dance:

[GenerationCedarchip]

Mitt Romney would be it, except that he's mormon. As offensive as this is to mormons, I don't believe Americans, particularly southern evangelicals, will vote for a mormon for president. Same thing with Jon Huntsman. And while Romney is running as a conservative, he hasn't governed as one when he had the chance and his opponents will bang that drum and is all he can do is what he's done: flip-flop. As far as money, I don't think it will be a problem. The large corporations will get in line, thanks in part to the Supreme Court. Republicans have deep pockets and once they coalesce around someone they can mostly support, the money will flow.

Then there's Pawlenty who is duller that Gore ever thought of being - and that's dull.

Ron Paul is a whackadoodle dressed up as a libertarian and most people I know, even those on the right, seem to recognize that. Herman Cain is a self-professed religious bigot, outspoken in particular on his hatred of muslims. May be enough to win the haters, but not very attractive to thinking people (moderates, independents, etc.) Plus I think he's got lousy name recognition.

Rick Santorum's beliefs are probably not very different from Perry's, just a different flavor, but his problem is that he's been in the public eye so long that the crazeeee has leaked out and, again, even those on the non-religious or semi-religious right are just like, "hell to the no" on Santorum.

Newt Gingrich has way too much baggage. The right wing of the GOP will never get behind someone with three failed marriages, adultery, etc.

And no one needs to point out the obvious problems with Palin and Bachmann.

The GOP needs to find someone who will unite them all AND be able to attract independent voters. A person perceived as such could beat Obama, no question. Neither the right wing nor the left wing has enough voters for a majority, so it's really all about attracting independents. That's the only way to win.

I think if Perry could hide or obscure his extremist religious views, he could be a threat.

Then again, at this point, 14 or 15 months out from the 2008 election, I would have predicted a different outcome, so what do I know?

edited as I posted two different versions of the same post AND messed up the quotes - duh!

And that's the thing about Perry. I think he can do it. People who even live under his rule in Texas don't seem to realize just how far to the right he is. They often describe him on FB pages with things like, "a little religious, but a pragmatic good guy." Out in the mainstream, this guy doesn't have the crazy reputation in the public imagination the way Bachmann or Santorum do.

My personal thought is if Perry got the nod and made Marco Rubio his VP, that would be a ticket to reckon with. Kinda scary, but I could see that playing out. Still too early to tell, though.

[demgirl]

Interestingly, I think this is an area where someone like Stephen Colbert and his PAC could actually make a difference. The way you call someone out for being a religious extremist is to put their previous words up against their new words and show people the difference. People might suspect Colbert of being a liberal (he's actually not... I'd say he's more a moderate, but anyway...), but it's hard to deny when there is one clip saying one thing and another saying something different. This technique is something that Colbert excels at and yet the mainstream media has never really figured out, for some reason. I could see Perry's extremism being revealed by this technique with the Colbert PAC $$ and I think that might be one way that PAC could actually make a difference. We shall see, however. Whatever happens, I want it to be funny dammit.

[Austin]

My personal thought is if Perry got the nod and made Marco Rubio his VP, that would be a ticket to reckon with. Kinda scary, but I could see that playing out. Still too early to tell, though.

ITA. They would just write off the northeast and the west coast and play the west, midwest, and south for the electoral college. At this point, although it pains me to say it, I rather think that's what will happen. I support Obama and will continue to do so, and I am of the belief that he was handed a really big turd from GWB, who skipped off into the sunset. People expect 1) for the president to exercise more power than he actually has, and 2) for him to work miracles. That, and people have really short memories and don't care much for context. Nuance seems to make the brains of the American people hurt.

Hope I'm wrong, though.

ETA: I found this opinion piece on CNN by the guy who also wrote Bush's Brain. He says it so much better than I can in Why Rick Perry is Headed to the White House:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/08/11/m ... =obnetwork

[GenerationCedarchip]

And in breaking news that will surprise no one, it looks like Rick Perry will be in the race:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44110416/ns ... ?GT1=43001

[xDreamerx]

I think it will come down to whether or not Perry can couch his religious views and make himself seem like "nice Conservative Christian" rather than an extremist. The same thing is true with Bachmann. Though I think Perry has a greater chance than she does. It frightens me that none of the major news networks seem willing to take these extremists to task. MSNBC has been the only one that I've seen that has brought up the fact that Perry has ties to the New Apostolic Reformation. Rachel Maddow and the like will talk about the connections between crazy right wingers and their religious beliefs but it's not something you see on NBC, ABC or the major networks. The media seems to have thrown its hands up when it comes to exposing these people for who they really are and that's disturbing.

[Austin]

It frightens me that none of the major news networks seem willing to take these extremists to task. MSNBC has been the only one that I've seen that has brought up the fact that Perry has ties to the New Apostolic Reformation. Rachel Maddow and the like will talk about the connections between crazy right wingers and their religious beliefs but it's not something you see on NBC, ABC or the major networks. The media seems to have thrown its hands up when it comes to exposing these people for who they really are and that's disturbing.

I think part of this problem is that it is all a matter of degrees. Back when I was fundie-lite, particularly if I wasn't someone to pay very close attention, I would have probably been fine with Perry as long as he didn't talk about hating gays or anything. My values were not to hate anybody, but as long as the person presented themselves as a regular evangelical - not too extreme - and that information was not readily available to me (I'm thinking pre-internet days), that might have been enough for me to throw my lot in with Perry.

So if the media challenges Perry (or anyone it seems, except Obama) on his religious views and points out inconsistencies in his words to the masses vs. his actual connections and beliefs, they will be skewered. Many people will think "he's just like me and look how the press is picking on him. They must hate Christianity". And since 76% of the country identifies as Christian, it's a risky gamble for the press.

I don't think that absolves the press of doing their job and reporting the facts no matter what public reaction may be, but I can certainly see why they shy away from it.

[Eponine]

It's such a stereotypical thing to say and almost no one follows through on it, but I feel the same way. I am actually seriously making plans to leave if one of the crazy Republicans wins. I'll be a senior in college that year, so that's actually good timing for me to get out of here, and I've been looking at grad schools outside the US anyway.

I moved abroad this year and part of the reason I did is because I am truly afraid of what is happening in US politics and I don't really have much hope that it will improve significantly. Obviously a lot of other reasons as well but I am feeling a bit of relief being able to watch this stuff from far away. I'll still be voting of course though. :D

[xDreamerx]

I think part of this problem is that it is all a matter of degrees. Back when I was fundie-lite, particularly if I wasn't someone to pay very close attention, I would have probably been fine with Perry as long as he didn't talk about hating gays or anything. My values were not to hate anybody, but as long as the person presented themselves as a regular evangelical - not too extreme - and that information was not readily available to me (I'm thinking pre-internet days), that might have been enough for me to throw my lot in with Perry.

So if the media challenges Perry (or anyone it seems, except Obama) on his religious views and points out inconsistencies in his words to the masses vs. his actual connections and beliefs, they will be skewered. Many people will think "he's just like me and look how the press is picking on him. They must hate Christianity". And since 76% of the country identifies as Christian, it's a risky gamble for the press.

I don't think that absolves the press of doing their job and reporting the facts no matter what public reaction may be, but I can certainly see why they shy away from it.

So, if I understand you correctly and I think I do, finding any fault or making a critique will just be considered "persecution" and might make people react in favour of Perry? Damn you crazy people! I just hate the idea that some people feel faith should be a part of everything you do and therefore is justified in politics. I hate that faith is seen as a legitimate point of view or reason to pursue certain political courses. I hate that faith has such a role in mainstream politics. Grr. I like my politics old school. Leave your faith at the damn door.

/end of rant.