Ron Paul, a Holocaust Denier

[Anxious Girl]

He's speaking at an anti-semitic convention supported by a group called Fatima Center, which is ultra-fundie-Catholic. R.P has supported this organization in the past. The link is here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wil ... 81363.html. Even the Vatican hates the Jewish-controlled New World Order conspiracy which this organization propagandizes! Here are some interesting quotes from the people in the organization who Ron Paul supports:

from Father Gruner:

Are we talking about the six million Jews that are alleged to been killed by Hitler? A question that nobody has been able to answer for me, is how can you have six million die, and have 13 million left, when you only had 13 million to start with? I think it's impossible. But you know, I'm open-minded. I'll listen to somebody who can prove it otherwise.

,

Robert Sungenis:

What I question is whether 6 million Jews were killed by the Nazis. I simply find that figure hard to believe, not only because the then current records show that the worldwide Jewish population in 1948 was virtually the same as it was in 1940, but also because there is easily obtainable documented evidence that only a few hundred thousand Jews lost their lives in Nazi internment camps.

and another quote from R.S:

The statistics show us that there was no large difference between the number of Jews living in 1939 as there were living in 1948, so how could six million Jews have died between those two periods?

So what happened to the communists, handicapped, homosexuals, Jews, Jehovah Witnesses, poltical prisoners, Roma, and others who were killed and tortured beyond an inhumane way in that terrible time period of hell known as the Holocaust? As a poster said it, I forget who it was, what were they all doing? Vacationing in the south of France? Do these people also question the Cambodian genocide, Congolese genocide, Native North and South American genocide and Rwandan genocide including many others? I fucking hate people who question well-documented beyond-inhumane-periods-of terror in history. Genocide denial makes my brain boil. :angry-fire: :angry-fire: :angry-fire: :angry-fire: :angry-fire: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming:

[anjulibai]

11 million people in total died in the Holocaust, the Jews were simply the both the main group and the biggest group targeted - they were the reason the Holocaust began, the Nazis decided to expand their bloodthirstiness to other groups of people.

The whole thing was extremely well documented by millions of witnesses, both survivors of the camps, the liberators of the camps, and those that ran the camps. How do they deny all the people that have given eye witness accounts of this?

And what statistics are they referring to exactly? All the research shows a major loss of population, shows towns being abandoned nearly overnight, or taken over by Germans.

It's so fucked up.

[Jana814]

This makes me sick that people would believe that it never happened. Although I wonder sometimes if Steve Maxwell is one also.

[Three and Done]

The estimate of the total death toll of WWII (including those exterminated in the concentration camps) stands at 50 - 70 million people.

That is fact, and that is history.

[lizziesmom]

There are people out there who live in their own reality and ignore any facts or evidence that doesn't fit in with their belief system. The same people we are talking about in this thread who are denying the holocaust probably are among those who blame Obama for the response to Hurricane Katrina.

[dpndetfarm]

I'm not sure what statistics they were reading, but the stats I found show quite a large drop in the Jewish population which still has not fully recovered from its preholocaust numbers:

[uber frau]

Dear Ron Paul,

Lipstadt vs Barton.

Google is your friend.

[Becket70]

Back in the late 60s I was a volunteer at our local hospital. One day, as I was in the elevator, a woman came in who had a series of numbers tattooed on her forearm. I remember looking at the numbers and then suddenly realizing what they meant. Talk about a sickening feeling. We did not speak to each other and I looked away from her. To this day I can see those numbers on her arm. Why did she have those numbers on her forearm? Because she wanted a tattoo? No, of course, she was a survivor of the camps...the very real camps from which most never made it out alive. I don't understand why some would chose to deny fact. For what reason? I don't get it.

[Hane]

My friend's grandfather had one of those horrific tattoos on his arm. She says he never spoke of his imprisonment, but the tattoo announced the truth to everyone.

[E Street Fan]

This makes me sick that people would believe that it never happened. Although I wonder sometimes if Steve Maxwell is one also.

I've wondered if the Duggars are Holocaust deniers, or at least downplayers. It seems like something they would latch onto.

In 2005, I had the privilege of hearing a Holocaust survivor named Mania Salinger speak at the Holocaust Memorial Center in Michigan. During the Q&A segment, somebody asked about her tattoo. She said she had it removed decades before, after a conversation with her daughter. Her daughter, who was then two years old, asked what the numbers were. Mrs. Salinger said it was their telephone number. Her daughter asked, "What happens when we move?" I will never forget meeting Mrs. Salinger and hearing her story.

ETA: Mrs. Salinger wrote a book called Looking Back that is available on Amazon, if anybody's interested.

[uber frau]

Back in the late 60s I was a volunteer at our local hospital. One day, as I was in the elevator, a woman came in who had a series of numbers tattooed on her forearm. I remember looking at the numbers and then suddenly realizing what they meant. Talk about a sickening feeling. We did not speak to each other and I looked away from her. To this day I can see those numbers on her arm. Why did she have those numbers on her forearm? Because she wanted a tattoo? No, of course, she was a survivor of the camps...the very real camps from which most never made it out alive.

These ppl tend to argue that atrocities did happen but deny that the Holocaust was so methodically organised or that had as many victims as it did. They'd probably argue that she was just one of the few unfortunates who happened to be in a camp.

I don't understand why some would chose to deny fact. For what reason? I don't get it.

This is a really good point that I'm ashamed to admit I hadn't really thought about before. I can understand a nation trying to pretend an atrocity never happened (or significantly downplaying the horror), but Germany, unlike many countries, hasn't done that. I can understand individuals who were active or passive participants denying the Holocaust. I can understand organisations or nations who should have done more to help downplaying their lack of involvement, but I cannot understand what ppl who have no connection to the event have to gain by denying it. Why would anyone want to?

Oh, and I'd just like to throw out there that I'm pretty sure the Rand Paul and the Teabaggers are the first to call Godwin anytime they think it might help their argument. You can't have it both ways, wankers.

[terranova]

The Maxwell children have probably never heard of the Holocaust. Maybe the Duggar kids too. How much history do they actually study?

[pimpom]

"I don't understand why some would chose to deny fact. For what reason? I don't get it."

Having thought about it for a bit, I think I know why. If you deny the holocaust, then it's no longer the super powerful 'card' the jews can 'play' when you are trying to prove that Secret Jewish Wolrd Domination is a thing. I think these people are very pissed off that one can't be properly anti-semitic (anymore) i.e. loudly, in public, and with lots of people who openly agree with you. But please correct me if I'm wrong.

[ILoveJellybeans]

The Maxwell children have probably never heard of the Holocaust. Maybe the Duggar kids too. How much history do they actually study?

The Duggars know about it, they went to the Holocaust Museum. All the parents took from it was that it was just the same as abortion, so I am guessing those poor kids dont quite understand how horrific it was.

I wouldnt be surprised if the Maxwells hadnt, as I dont think their adult children are allowed to know anything except for cleaning, praying and misery.

I dont know how anyone can deny that it happened, there is so much evidence, but then again, there are still people who think the world was created 6000 years ago in a week despite all scientific evidence saying it wasnt. People are good at ignoring facts that dont fit in with their view of the world.

[uber frau]

But they can't call "were you there?" when it comes to the Holocaust (and that is the foundation that all their crappy arguments rest on). There are plenty of primary documents and until recently there were plenty of witnesses, even witnesses who saw the whole thing being put together and can attest to the scale of the atrocity.

It's even harder truth to deny than that of evolution.

[Childless]

The Duggars know about it, they went to the Holocaust Museum. All the parents took from it was that it was just the same as abortion, so I am guessing those poor kids dont quite understand how horrific it was.

I wouldnt be surprised if the Maxwells hadnt, as I dont think their adult children are allowed to know anything except for cleaning, praying and misery.

I dont know how anyone can deny that it happened, there is so much evidence, but then again, there are still people who think the world was created 6000 years ago in a week despite all scientific evidence saying it wasnt. People are good at ignoring facts that dont fit in with their view of the world.

Fuck. There are people who still think Obama was born in Kenya despite seeing his short form birth certificate, his long form birth certificate, his birth announcement, and hearing from people who visited his parents in the hospital after he was born. People will latch onto a belief and never let go if it helps to support their biases. I sometimes think these people hold so fast to proven fiction because they can't survive being proven wrong. It's rather sad and pathetic in my view.

[Sumeri]

Back in the late 60s I was a volunteer at our local hospital. One day, as I was in the elevator, a woman came in who had a series of numbers tattooed on her forearm. I remember looking at the numbers and then suddenly realizing what they meant. Talk about a sickening feeling. We did not speak to each other and I looked away from her. To this day I can see those numbers on her arm. Why did she have those numbers on her forearm? Because she wanted a tattoo? No, of course, she was a survivor of the camps...the very real camps from which most never made it out alive. I don't understand why some would chose to deny fact. For what reason? I don't get it.

This is why we need to keep talking about this.

I knew many, many people with those tattoos when I was a kid and a young adult, because I lived in a very Jewish neighborhood and later worked for the JCC. Honestly, I don't think I knew a single Jewish kid in my neighborhood who didn't have a family member who was a survivor, or, much more commonly, didn't make it out alive.

I think the Holocaust deniers now are counting on the fact that people DON'T remember - they don't have that first line contact with families who were there. They can scream and deny numbers and put whatever spin on it they like, and if they've caught the attention of some anti-Semitic gasbag the numbers of people who hear the wrong story keep growing and growing and growing.

[Peas n carrots]

Nothing pisses me off more. Nazi's were meticulous record keepers, so it's not hard to get source documents on the atrocities.

My DH works for a Jewish non-profit, and probably on a monthly basis he deals with some kind of anti-Semitic crap. DH isn't Jewish, so he is kind of the front line dealing with it. It's just unbelievable in the 21st century we are dealing with this.

[Jana814]

The Maxwell children have probably never heard of the Holocaust. Maybe the Duggar kids too. How much history do they actually study?

I would love to know what kind of history the Maxwell kids learned. I highly doubt that they learned about the Holocaust Suprised it never came up considering the only outside contect they have is w/ the elderly.

[flyawaystray]

This makes me rage. :angry-banghead:

How can anyone NOT FREAKING BELIEVE THE HOLOCAUST WAS REAL? WHAT. THE. F#*k.

[ADoyle90815]

This is why we need to keep talking about this.

I knew many, many people with those tattoos when I was a kid and a young adult, because I lived in a very Jewish neighborhood and later worked for the JCC. Honestly, I don't think I knew a single Jewish kid in my neighborhood who didn't have a family member who was a survivor, or, much more commonly, didn't make it out alive.

I think the Holocaust deniers now are counting on the fact that people DON'T remember - they don't have that first line contact with families who were there. They can scream and deny numbers and put whatever spin on it they like, and if they've caught the attention of some anti-Semitic gasbag the numbers of people who hear the wrong story keep growing and growing and growing.

I also think we need to keep talking about this, since there will come a point when there are no more survivors left alive to keep telling their stories.

[SPHASH]

I also think we need to keep talking about this, since there will come a point when there are no more survivors left alive to keep telling their stories.

Agreed

[Ariel]

I have a question about the Holocaust.

How well known were the concentration camps at the time (1930's-1940's)? Did the average American hear about them prior to the end of the war and the release of the prisoners? I know the ghettos were well known, but I'm unsure of the gas chambers, experiments, etc.

I'm curious because of the chain of events occurring in Russia right now. How much is possibly going on that we don't know about?

[No Cure for Stupid]

I have a question about the Holocaust.

How well known were the concentration camps at the time (1930's-1940's)? Did the average American hear about them prior to the end of the war and the release of the prisoners? I know the ghettos were well known, but I'm unsure of the gas chambers, experiments, etc.

I'm curious because of the chain of events occurring in Russia right now. How much is possibly going on that we don't know about?

No one really knew the extent of it until toward the end of the war. There were rumors about what was going on, but the true extent wasn't known until the liberations in 1944 and 1945. Civilians didn't really know about it at all until the evidence was shown. People living near the concentration camps didn't even realize what was going on until Allied troops made them tour the camps and showed them the evidence.

[terranova]

I would love to know what kind of history the Maxwell kids learned. I highly doubt that they learned about the Holocaust Suprised it never came up considering the only outside contect they have is w/ the elderly.

I'd be surprised if the Reversal kids knew any international history. The older ones may have learnt some before Teri and Steve fell down the rabbit hole but I can't imagine it was a high priority.