Is a Proverbs 31 woman the same as a Titus 2? (corrected)

[Curious]

or whatever the fundies call themselves?

I have a new friend (facebook though another friend) that I just discovered is apparently very religious. I have a lot of fairly religious facebook "friends" that I essentially have zero contact with, they are just for neighbors on games, so I just ignore all the super religious stuff and call it a day.

This one I have more interaction with and when I noticed the Proverbs 31 stuff, initially I wrote it off (as fundie) because I thought it was Titus 2 that was fundie, but then I was poking around a bit more and found some things that make me think maybe I have stumbled into having my very own fundie friend or at the very least fundie-lite.

Tonight she said something about being a Proverbs 31 woman and thus I am posting here for some clarifications.

Edit: to correct the Titus reference

[xDreamerx]

It's Titus 2, not 31 :) But yes, they're both basically verses that fundies hold up as the picture of "true womanhood" or "Biblical womanhood" or whatever you want to call it.

[slickcat79]

I think Proverbs 31 is like the tl;dr version of Titus 2. Titus only has a couple of verses describing how a woman should be:

3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.

Of course, I think a lot of fundie women confuse Titus 2:3-5 with Titus 2:9-10 :roll:

9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, 10 and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.

Proverbs 31 has about 20 verses describing the character and daily activities of a godly woman, and is a little more positive. The Proverbs 31 woman actually buys land, engages in trade, etc. I used to read a blog of a woman who was a student and US Airman as well as a wife and mother, and she mentioned wanting to be like the Proverbs 31 woman; it's not something that only appeals to fundies.

[Cran]

They BELIEVE it is the same, while both parts describe very different women, but egads, as each and every female model in the bibel MUST be applied to each fundie woman, she can work her $%& off and try to fit several ideals at the same time. Be busy all the time with her own children and household of, earn quite some money on the side, sew the clothes herself AND mentor other women! Phew!

While having NONE of the servants a typical rich Jewish women would have had in biblical times. Oh, forgot, instead servants (who frequently were slaves) you hae children. Silly me! I need a husband to think for me asap.

[Kaylee]

They BELIEVE it is the same, while both parts describe very different women, but egads, as each and every female model in the bibel MUST be applied to each fundie woman, she can work her $%& off and try to fit several ideals at the same time. Be busy all the time with her own children and household of, earn quite some money on the side, sew the clothes herself AND mentor other women! Phew!

While having NONE of the servants a typical rich Jewish women would have had in biblical times. Oh, forgot, instead servants (who frequently were slaves) you hae children. Silly me! I need a husband to think for me asap.

This. I read a book recently that pointed this out. There's this pressure on women to be a "Proverbs 31" woman & try to do all that it once, but it wasn't even describing a real woman. It was a king relating what his mother told him to look for in a perfect wife, and all of the things listed would be stuff she would do doing over a lifetime, not all at once, with practically an army of servants to do most of the work.

Proverbs 31 is usually used as a picture of the "excellent (or virtuous) wife", and is where the phrase "Far Above Rubies" comes from. Titus 2 normally has connotations of older women mentoring or teaching younger women, but a lot of fundies like to drag out the whole verse because it mentions being a "keeper at home" & subject to your husband. Like most other things, the original meaning is ignored and the English translation twisted to fit fundie culture and personal preferences and to try to be more oppressive to women than it was intended.

[nutella addict]

I think fundies are more into Titus 2 - I know a lot of very conservative but not quite fundie-light Christians who emphasize Proverbs 31 but I'd never heard them talking about Titus 2. If I remember from my last Bible study on Proverbs 31, it's really not that bad, but then fundies interpret everything their own special way. I believe Proverbs 31 is just describing how wonderful and rare a wife is who can manage accounts, raise children, and love her husband and generally be a good, productive member of society and a blessing to her husband. But then I'm too lazy to go read it again right now.

Wish the fundies would read Biblical instructions to the husband as often as they read those to the wife.

Oh, yeah, what Raine said too. Proverbs 31 doesn't say, as far as I can tell, DO THIS ALL AT ONCE AND BE PERFECT OR YOU WILL DIE! But the fundies like to think it does. As far as I'm concerned it's about women being generally competent throughout their lives as being ideal wives. But who knows, I'm one of those heathen liberals who dares to call myself a Christian. :roll:

[Guest Anonymous]

Actually, the Proverbs 31 woman would have kicked the Titus 2 woman's butt. And without raising a sweat.

[Patsy]

Right, Bible cage match. Let's go. First round: Jael v. Ham. DING DING!

[Curious]

It's Titus 2, not 31 :) But yes, they're both basically verses that fundies hold up as the picture of "true womanhood" or "Biblical womanhood" or whatever you want to call it.

Hah! That's what I get for posting at 3am when I am falling asleep! I was perhaps a bit excited at my find (which might mean that I need a new hobby or something) /ponder ;)

[emmiedahl]

Proverbs 31 is a big part of Judaism and it kinda pisses me off when fundies take this strong, powerful Jewish figure and try to make it fit into their weak patriocentric frame.

They can have Titus 2, though.

[Joykins]

Proverbs 31: an older woman describes her ideal daughter-in-law

Titus 2: please keep the cougars out of the bars. Then they can keep busy telling the younger women to stay out of the bars too kthxbai.