Home School vs. Public Education

[OkToBeTakei]

Are the public schools held to a common standard? Are they graded by a regulating body? I'm interested as to why some school 'districts' are bad. Is it not different school to school?

I gather from another thread their is no national common curriculum. Why is this? Is the exam structure the same? It does differ here but generally it is geared at 16 yrs then 18yrs leading to the required qualification for University entrance. Example. IB would be a curriculum as would English 'A' levels or Scottish Highers. Therefore the curriculum is geared this way.

Is there a national standard? Inspection bodies etc? If a school is deemed to be performing poorly is it not graded as so and resources, guidance standards, timeframes set for improvement?

Also why are people so loathe to be answerable regarding homeschooling (not all obviously.) Why would anybody not accept guidelines or welcome some kind of testing, surely that would reassure that their kids are performing well and even as some have said here surpassing maybe their public school peers. Why would they not want to know if maybe in some areas it may be subpar. Here I believe homeschoolers are actually given material by their LEA's if they wish to resource share.

How common is private schooling? (here we call that public school :lol: ) Are all church schools private?

Sorry the wall of questions if anybody can be bothered. It's all quite fascinating.

[klf7412]

Are the public schools held to a common standard? Are they graded by a regulating body? I'm interested as to why some school 'districts' are bad. Is it not different school to school?

I gather from another thread their is no national common curriculum. Why is this? Is the exam structure the same? It does differ here but generally it is geared at 16 yrs then 18yrs leading to the required qualification for University entrance. Example. IB would be a curriculum as would English 'A' levels or Scottish Highers. Therefore the curriculum is geared this way.

Is there a national standard? Inspection bodies etc? If a school is deemed to be performing poorly is it not graded as so and resources, guidance standards, timeframes set for improvement?

Also why are people so loathe to be answerable regarding homeschooling (not all obviously.) Why would anybody not accept guidelines or welcome some kind of testing, surely that would reassure that their kids are performing well and even as some have said here surpassing maybe their public school peers. Why would they not want to know if maybe in some areas it may be subpar. Here I believe homeschoolers are actually given material by their LEA's if they wish to resource share.

How common is private schooling? (here we call that public school :lol: ) Are all church schools private?

Sorry the wall of questions if anybody can be bothered. It's all quite fascinating.

How common is private schooling? It depends, really. Some areas might have a high percentage due to people in that particular area making more money (or it being culture to be "anti" public school).. Overall, though, the majority of Kids in the US attend public school. I'd say Private schooling is just a bit more common than homeschooling.

Are all church schools private? Yes, because it is illegal for a free, public school to be religious.

[hapamama]

I have friends who are religiously motivated homeschoolers, some are even fundy. Most of their college aged kids are in college (yes, even the girls).

My kids go to public schools. One of my kids is learning disabled, one has a severe speech delay that requires intensive speech therapy and the other two school aged kids learn better from people other than me. If at any time I feel that attending public school wasn't in their best interest, I'd certainly find another option. Their father went through 13 years of Catholic schools so I know that private schools aren't always better either.

[dilannsmom]

I teach in a public school in a suburban area in upstate New York. There is no national curriculum in the US, although we are moving to nationalized standards of education with the Common Core (I don't remember the number of states that have adopted the Common Core [CCLS], but it is well over half, as there is federal money linked to adopting the new standards). Until the implementation of the CCLS each state developed its own set of standards...and they varied widely.

In New York State there are statewide exams for high school students (Regents Exams) that must be passed before a student can be issued a state diploma. However, these tests are not national...only at the state level.

My public school is also an IB school, so our students take both Regents exams and the required IB exams. Our small town is home of a fortune 500 company that sees IB as a way of luring executives from all over the world as we are the only school in a 2 hour radius to offer the IB program at NO cost to students and families (the big tab is picked up by a nonprofit that provides numerous grants to community members).

I live in a neighboring district, and the district in which my daughter is enrolled is a very good district. However, I will probably transfer her to my district for high school simply because of the IB program. It provides a very high level of college preparedness and can broaden the horizons for many small town kids.

[JenniferJuniper]

Are the public schools held to a common standard? Are they graded by a regulating body? I'm interested as to why some school 'districts' are bad. Is it not different school to school?

I gather from another thread their is no national common curriculum. Why is this? Is the exam structure the same? It does differ here but generally it is geared at 16 yrs then 18yrs leading to the required qualification for University entrance. Example. IB would be a curriculum as would English 'A' levels or Scottish Highers. Therefore the curriculum is geared this way.

Is there a national standard? Inspection bodies etc? If a school is deemed to be performing poorly is it not graded as so and resources, guidance standards, timeframes set for improvement?

Also why are people so loathe to be answerable regarding homeschooling (not all obviously.) Why would anybody not accept guidelines or welcome some kind of testing, surely that would reassure that their kids are performing well and even as some have said here surpassing maybe their public school peers. Why would they not want to know if maybe in some areas it may be subpar. Here I believe homeschoolers are actually given material by their LEA's if they wish to resource share.

How common is private schooling? (here we call that public school :lol: ) Are all church schools private?

Sorry the wall of questions if anybody can be bothered. It's all quite fascinating.

There are federal achievement standards, but schooling is regulated by the individual states.

Here's a handy dandy state-by-state homeschooling chart. You can see some states have very detailed requirements while others, like Texas, have almost none.

http://education.uslegal.com/homeschool ... -by-state/

There is no official religion in the US so religious schools cannot be public schools (or state schools, as you might call them).

How common is homeschooling vs private schooling? My guess is that it varies by region. As far as I’m aware, I've never known anyone who was homeschooled (aside from during brief periods of illness or injuries) although I know many people who went to private prep or Catholic schools.

[CynicMom]

There's a large homeschool group in my area that teaches with Classical Conversations. It's a curricula based entirely on memorization. History is Biblical history. Debate is Christian-only debate. I'm glad that there are sane Christian homeschoolers out there. It has NOT been my experience.

[martian]

Are the public schools held to a common standard? Are they graded by a regulating body? I'm interested as to why some school 'districts' are bad. Is it not different school to school?

I gather from another thread their is no national common curriculum. Why is this? Is the exam structure the same? It does differ here but generally it is geared at 16 yrs then 18yrs leading to the required qualification for University entrance. Example. IB would be a curriculum as would English 'A' levels or Scottish Highers. Therefore the curriculum is geared this way.

Is there a national standard? Inspection bodies etc? If a school is deemed to be performing poorly is it not graded as so and resources, guidance standards, timeframes set for improvement?

Also why are people so loathe to be answerable regarding homeschooling (not all obviously.) Why would anybody not accept guidelines or welcome some kind of testing, surely that would reassure that their kids are performing well and even as some have said here surpassing maybe their public school peers. Why would they not want to know if maybe in some areas it may be subpar. Here I believe homeschoolers are actually given material by their LEA's if they wish to resource share.

How common is private schooling? (here we call that public school :lol: ) Are all church schools private?

Sorry the wall of questions if anybody can be bothered. It's all quite fascinating.

A contributing factor to why some school districts are "bad" is funding. In many places the school funding varies by district and is based on the local property taxes. In my state this produces extreme disparities. My husband, for example, attended a high school that had a film studies curriculum, and had an art department that did ceramics courses and bronze casting. My rural high school shared an art teacher with the junior high - needless to say, our art education was very basic. Even so, there was talk of cutting it when money got tight. The disparities can get a lot more shocking than that, too. The richer districts fight tooth and nail to prevent more equitable sharing of funds because the people in them regard the money as rightfully theirs even when a lot of it is because they have substantial corporations contributing to the tax bases of their districts.

My mother-in-law was a school board member for many years, and I remember her complaining about her district's responsibility for educating the children of the local orphanage (a real, honest to god orphanage - they aren't that common anymore). She felt it was unfair that her district had to foot the bill for children she, and I presume her fellow board members, seemed to view as free-riders. This is the district where the high school had the bronze casting, and the film studies, and every other imaginable amenity. That sort of attitude is endemic here and contributes a lot to reinforcing the systemic inequalities. You also get the people who will vote down any sort of effort to raise money for the schools if their own kids are grown and won't benefit. It's maddening. Seeing to the education of all children is often not viewed as a communal responsibility and seems to be becoming less so.

[AmyP]

There's a large homeschool group in my area that teaches with Classical Conversations. It's a curricula based entirely on memorization. History is Biblical history. Debate is Christian-only debate. I'm glad that there are sane Christian homeschoolers out there. It has NOT been my experience.

Classical conversations is not just memorization and their history curriculum is more than the events in the bible. I don't know about the upper grades, but the lower grade curriculum is meant to be in addition to a standard curriculum, not in place of. I'm not a fan, necessarily, but you don't sound like you know that much about the program.

[dawbs]

yes, private schooling options vary a lot by area.

I actually googled what my state offers (in MI, it's hard to go out of state because we're on peninsulas--so, it's a long LONG drive to hit a state line, unless you happen to live right next to the bottom of the mitten--or the WI side of the UP). apparently there are 677 'private' schools in MI...

247 Roman Catholic schools

13 Jewish schools

1 Friends school

2 Episcopal schools

98 Christian schools

78 Montessori schools

2 Waldorf school

The standards for the schools run the gamut--they don't have to have certified teachers, they can opt out of a lot of requirements.

The likelihood that there's a reasonably close-by, non-religiously affiliated school for my kid is highly unlikely (I've checked, I'm struggling to find a PRESCHOOL that fits that bill, let alone a high-school); the chances there's one I can afford is HIGHLY unlikely (one of the few non-religious private schools I'd consider costs as much per semester as I paid at a very high-priced private college).

There are a few that

[FreeJosie]

My son goes to public school, but I'm not adverse to homeschooling/cyber schooling in the future if either one turns out to be a better fit for him down the line. I live in a state that requires homeschoolers to submit a good bit of documentation each year, but I don't really view that as a bad thing if it can prevent kids from only receiving SOTDRT-style "lessons." (Per-pen-dick-u-lar!) :lol:

[OkToBeTakei]

Really. Thanks for indulging me. I had figured it was a state to state thing, but then realised as much as I find that weird, that actually although I live in the UK my country has a totally separate education system to the other three countries.

I would need to look up private to state school ratio for comparison. But as far as I am aware it does not seem as many although that is say local knowledge rather than ratio to population which would be interesting.

Homeschooling is a funny old beast here. IF your child was in school and you remove them then you can and will be accountable regarding LEA regulation. But if you never send your child to school apparently this is not the case which actually appears to cause concern rather than acceptance.

Of all the differences I find the 'church' school the most interesting. My child attends a state catholic school. Any child can, you do not need to be catholic and you do not need to take part in any religious aspect of the school. The same goes for Church of Scotland/England schools. They teach diversity. Part of the Scottish curriculum for excellence was Sex education. It would be unimaginable to me as discussed on another thread that anything other than fact was taught. I would rip a hole if my child was taught abstinence. Puberty. Sex. Yes some relationship and social pressure. But they teach STD's contraception. The hot button issue here is the call to teach kids about pornography and it's negative connotations without understanding. Difficult one in this internet age. It needs to be addressed.

I understand the demographic issue. Same here. The funding issue I am not sure of at all it seems different in Scotland to England NI and Wales. As is the system. It causes huge issues. Scottish children attending Scottish universities pay no fees. But English kids wishing to study here have to pay. A huge issue. A bit like US different states?

It seems to me though that education is just a huge minefield wherever you live. Just a different set of difficulties.

I could never homeschool and quite admire those who do. IF as some here have said for the right reasons. I would be rubbish. I am not 100% happy all of the time but it sounds like none of us are.

Finland is the top country for education followed by South Korea, Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore.

The success of Asian countries in these rankings reflects the high value attached to education and the expectations of parents. This can continue to be a factor when families migrate to other countries, says the report accompanying the rankings.

Looking at the two top countries - Finland and South Korea - the report says that there are many big differences, but the common factor is a shared social belief in the importance of education and its "underlying moral purpose".

Social belief. Expectation. Education. Moral purpose.

Not money. Not religion. Interesting.

[patsymae]

I am very interested in the stories of those of you who got a high quality, non-fundie homeschool education, as I am considering homeschooling my 4 year old. What was the good and bad about being homeschooled? Any tips on how to do it right? I've tried reading homeschool books but it seems all the ones I come across are religious in nature, and most of the homeschoolers I know personally are religious. Some of them are religious and also focused on academic rigor, others... not so much. Our family would be doing completely secular homeschooling.

I wrote an article about home schooling (back in the 90s, when it was more of a fringe movement) and saw it done badly and also very, very well. No personal experience, but from what I saw in my (extensive) research, the families that did it well 1) belonged to homeschooling groups or associations and interacted and shared with the other parents, and arranged for much interaction among the kids as well, 2) took secular subjects like math and science seriously (even if they were religious, such as a Catholic homeschooling association, 3) made extensive use of community resources, including even the public schools at times (for example, kids taking PE or lab sciences, in places that allowed it), and 4) used the kids' interests to actually further education, not just as hang out time (for example, and this is an actual one, not a sexist one, a girl who liked fashion designed costumes as part of a whole unit on Elizabethan history, learning all the history, the literature and also the math that goes along with design). The ones that did it badly either just weren't that energetic ("We say I'm homeschooled but mostly I just skateboard a lot) or seriously crazy fundies who used standardized crap curricula, kept the kids at the table, and were quite frank about not wanting their kids to be exposed to anyone outside their circle.

A scholar I interviewed (again, this is when it was more of a fringe, although growing, movement) said that two groups increasingly home schooling were middle-class blacks and teenage girls, who were uncomfortable in public schools for different reasons. Also "groups in which the woman is expected to stay home and care for the children" because being a "teacher" was high status for the women.

I think there are many different reasons to homeschool and some people indeed to it well, while others are just atrocious. I suspect it's easier if you live in a city (that's where the families I interviewed were) because there are just more resources--museums, colleges, symphony for kids, internships at different businesses, and so on.

One thing I really liked about most of the home schooled kids was that there was not age segregation--they were as comfortable with a 6-six-old learning to read or an 80-year-old beekeeper and socialized with all ages. To me that was a big plus.

I guess the first step might be to check out if there are homeschooling associations you are comfortable with in your area and reach out to those parents.

[patsymae]

Hope I'm not breaking a rule by posting this link (if so I apologize and please delete)but I just came across this quite by accident:

http://tinyurl.com/m7qsjsu

It's just one person, and there are plenty of kids who go to school who feel suicidal, but if this is legit it does point out the dangers of isolation.

[louisa05]

This is one of these subjects where I just want to say I am very, very glad my kids are grown. I don't know what I would do if I had to put a child in the local public schools. I would guess they would be okay in elementary school, but I would have to move an hour away to an area that has some diversity and charter schools/non-religious private schools or home school. I would not, under any circumstances, send my child to a junior high school or high school in my current district. It's not even a remote option. If I had to stay here, I would homeschool without a second thought.

Having subbed in every school in our local district in the last two years, I would homeschool a young child until at least second or third grade. Our district basically ties primary kids to tables and chairs and makes them do worksheet after worksheet in a frantic effort to have them all ready for the first round of high stakes state testing in fourth grade. They want kindergartners reading at a level normal for halfway through first grade and adding double digit numbers by the end of their year. Those who are "behind" are put in extra classes after school until 4:30 or 5 p.m making an eight to nine hour day for five year olds. It so far from developmentally appropriate that it appalls me and I would never subject a child of mine to it.

And I used to be completely opposed to homeschooling. Crazy.

[Mama Mia]

Are the public schools held to a common standard? Are they graded by a regulating body? I'm interested as to why some school 'districts' are bad. Is it not different school to school?

I gather from another thread their is no national common curriculum. Why is this? Is the exam structure the same? It does differ here but generally it is geared at 16 yrs then 18yrs leading to the required qualification for University entrance. Example. IB would be a curriculum as would English 'A' levels or Scottish Highers. Therefore the curriculum is geared this way.

Is there a national standard? Inspection bodies etc? If a school is deemed to be performing poorly is it not graded as so and resources, guidance standards, timeframes set for improvement?

Also why are people so loathe to be answerable regarding homeschooling (not all obviously.) Why would anybody not accept guidelines or welcome some kind of testing, surely that would reassure that their kids are performing well and even as some have said here surpassing maybe their public school peers. Why would they not want to know if maybe in some areas it may be subpar. Here I believe homeschoolers are actually given material by their LEA's if they wish to resource share.

How common is private schooling? (here we call that public school :lol: ) Are all church schools private?

.

To the bolded - I think in this (and many other topics ) -- it might be more logical if you thought of the United States as exactly that --- a bunch of individual states that are united under a common federal government, but are vastly different in many, many areas.

The federal government basically wields power over the states through granting or withholding federal funds. Each state basically has their own guidelines and funding for education. Curriculum, graduation requirements,and even the age of required education is varies by state. To some extent the variability by school district is related to funding. Funding for education primarily comes from property taxes which are used by each school within a district ( there is also some state and federal funding - but it is not the primary source - at least in my state ). Schools also supplement their funding through donations made by the parents. So a school in a rich area of a poor district might end up with a very active parent association that provides the students with enrichment activities like art and music.

The federal funds that schools receive can be linked to things like test scores -- recently this has been primarily through an initiative called " No Child Left Behind" - this has generally been a complete disaster, primarily due to so much pressure being placed on passing various random tests that not much else is accomplished. This varies greatly by school of course. One problem with this effort has been that schools with high proportions of non-English speakers obviously tend to score very badly and face all sorts of financial problems as a result.

There are some charter schools - which are run outside the usual public school system, with more individualized approaches to education, but are free. In my area there are some focused on homeschooling type collectives - that provide enrichment classes, materials etc. .. There is also a college prep charter school, a Montessori type charter school, a charter school focused on Green Technology and a few others. I don't think a religious charter school would be allowed here, but other states may be different.

[apple1]

To the bolded - I think in this (and many other topics ) -- it might be more logical if you thought of the United States as exactly that --- a bunch of individual states that are united under a common federal government, but are vastly different in many, many areas.

The federal government basically wields power over the states through granting or withholding federal funds. Each state basically has their own guidelines and funding for education. Curriculum, graduation requirements,and even the age of required education is varies by state. To some extent the variability by school district is related to funding. Funding for education primarily comes from property taxes which are used by each school within a district ( there is also some state and federal funding - but it is not the primary source - at least in my state ). Schools also supplement their funding through donations made by the parents. So a school in a rich area of a poor district might end up with a very active parent association that provides the students with enrichment activities like art and music.

The federal funds that schools receive can be linked to things like test scores -- recently this has been primarily through an initiative called " No Child Left Behind" - this has generally been a complete disaster, primarily due to so much pressure being placed on passing various random tests that not much else is accomplished. This varies greatly by school of course. One problem with this effort has been that schools with high proportions of non-English speakers obviously tend to score very badly and face all sorts of financial problems as a result.

There are some charter schools - which are run outside the usual public school system, with more individualized approaches to education, but are free. In my area there are some focused on homeschooling type collectives - that provide enrichment classes, materials etc. .. There is also a college prep charter school, a Montessori type charter school, a charter school focused on Green Technology and a few others. I don't think a religious charter school would be allowed here, but other states may be different.

I will add one thing: There are standardized tests - for example, the Iowa tests - that are used in public schools throughout a very large portion of the US - even though they are NOT from the federal (national) government - and in most states these standardized tests and their results do hold a lot of weight, with regard to measuring how well public schools are doing.

And as a counterpoint, I will also comment: I believe it is the responsibility of every parent to see that his or her children get a true education. How that is done may vary. For both myself and my kids, this was public school education. This did not mean that I put my kids on the bus and did nothing else. Public school education (as with all forms of education) works best when the parents are involved, communicating with the educators, and also work with the kids to reinforce what is taught, or to provide additional help, whether that is parental tutoring, formal external tutoring, whatever, if the child needs it for particular subjects. (rant off)

[Hane]

Another characteristic of US public schools: Because of the predominance of "home rule," even within a given state they vary wildly based on the towns they're in. Schools tend to be funded largely by property taxes and governed by local school boards.

Case in point: Public schools in the Bronx vs. Westchester County, which are adjacent to each other. The Bronx, with a significant rate of poverty, has many schools that are in bad physical shape. Westchester County, which is an affluent suburb, has carefully maintained buildings. The teachers in the two school systems face drastically different populations.