Home School vs. Public Education

[lizziesmom]

There sure seems to be a lot of criticism of the public schools and the quality of education, but after reading several posts on here about home school curriculum (at least among fundies), I really question what kind of education they are going to have after 12 years of studying at the kitchen table. What kind of monitoring goes on by the state, if any?

I am very concerned we're going to end up with a generation of undereducated, unemployable kids who won't be able to strike out on their own even if they wanted to because of how they are being raised.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Lol that's what they want. They don't want anyone to strike out on their own. They intend for their daughters to marry young and get stuck with a bunch of babies and no way out. Career isn't a possibility. The boys will be trained to do a trade or work the family business. No college, no professions that require college.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I wouldnt be too concerned. It's a very small percentage of the population.

[EmiGirl]

Honestly I have sworn my entire life I would never homeschool my future children. However our local schools aren't very good and the only other options private school wise are Christian schools. I wouldn't mind it, but I have to wonder about their science curriculum. That's what concerns me. So yeah, the thought of homeschooling my future children after a certain grade has definitely crossed my mind.

[RachelB]

Lol that's what they want. They don't want anyone to strike out on their own. They intend for their daughters to marry young and get stuck with a bunch of babies and no way out. Career isn't a possibility. The boys will be trained to do a trade or work the family business. No college, no professions that require college.

That's probably the thing that infuriates me most-- that some religiously motivated home-schoolers view stunting their children's intellectual growth as a good thing. Those children don't have any real choice about what they'll do in the future. It's not impossible to learn to read, or to learn math, a second language, or critical thinking skills as an adult. But it's a lot easier to learn those things as a younger person.

I teach composition, and part of what I try to teach in the students I work with is independence: if I do my job correctly, they eventually won't need my help anymore. I think it's unconscionable for a parent or teacher to make it less possible for a young person to eventually stand on his or her own.

[klf7412]

Honestly I have sworn my entire life I would never homeschool my future children. However our local schools aren't very good and the only other options private school wise are Christian schools. I wouldn't mind it, but I have to wonder about their science curriculum. That's what concerns me. So yeah, the thought of homeschooling my future children after a certain grade has definitely crossed my mind.

As someone who is well-versed in all things homeschool, I must say that all of the Christian-based science curriculums I have looked at have been awful (I have only ever used secular curriculum- neither my Mom nor I wanted something biased.. lol)... I don't understand what scares other Christians about learning a subject without praying/mentioning God every other sentence. It also bugs me that they can't see that God and Science are two different things.

[salex]

Honestly I have sworn my entire life I would never homeschool my future children. However our local schools aren't very good and the only other options private school wise are Christian schools. I wouldn't mind it, but I have to wonder about their science curriculum. That's what concerns me. So yeah, the thought of homeschooling my future children after a certain grade has definitely crossed my mind.

My sister was encouraged by friends to start a homeschool or small private school, however, she ran for school board instead to try to implement changes she thought needed to be done, since while she might thoroughly educated her children, the community at large would still have a poor school.

A friend, who had her degree in biology but wasn't working or wasn't working full time, volunteered at her daughters' jr high/middle school to help run experiments with the kids in their science class--basically an unpaid para for the science teachers. Made sure her kids got the science the needed along with their peers.

ANd, of course, there is always the ongoing supplement to any schooling that parents do and have always done by working with kids at home after school and on breaks, on any number of projects, either individually or in a club (scouts, 4-H, etc) that teach many other things that may only be touched on by whatever school kids attend.

[Jenny]

I've often thought that I would like to home school if I ever have kids. However the quality of the curriculum provided by the public schools has never been a factor. I just always felt too much of my time was wasted in school by doing non-scholastic things. I remember watching a lot of boring movies in school, particularly when we went to the library. I would have rather had the time to watch something I enjoy. Plus there were years in school when I spent over an hour a day on the bus. I want my children to have plenty of timed to be kids.

I don't know if this would be a fundie approved reason, but I like to think my reasons are better than theirs.

[klf7412]

I've often thought that I would like to home school if I ever have kids. However the quality of the curriculum provided by the public schools has never been a factor. I just always felt too much of my time was wasted in school by doing non-scholastic things. I remember watching a lot of boring movies in school, particularly when we went to the library. I would have rather had the time to watch something I enjoy. Plus there were years in school when I spent over an hour a day on the bus. I want my children to have plenty of timed to be kids.

I don't know if this would be a fundie approved reason, but I like to think my reasons are better than theirs.

This.

I started homeschooling in 8th grade and was surprised that I had been wasting 10 hours of my day the previous year getting ready for, attending school, or riding the bus home. When I started homeschooling it only took 3 hours (if that) on any given day to complete all of my schooling (including learning the Mandarin language!). By the time I was in 10th grade, I was planning on graduating a year early, and also taking a couple college courses at the local community college. The sole reason I want to homeschool my kids is because I feel that my Public/Private school education was not only lacking, but that it took away from time to explore my interests and develop passions/belief systems. I never would have had time to develop such an intense passion for wildlife conservation- and I wouldn't have had so much time to study this interest of mine- if I had of continued my education in a brick and mortar classroom.

[PurpleSheepleEater]

The quality of home school varies just like the quality of public school. You cannot compare them in such a massive generalization really. Not all home school is terrible, it can be done very well. Same with public schools, some areas have awesome schools and some are just plain awful.

Now I will say that fundie home school, as I've observed, tends towards the awful, especially when you have mothers without college educations running it. But that's just my opinion and I'm sure it's not true across the board.

[Stephanie66]

This is one of these subjects where I just want to say I am very, very glad my kids are grown. I don't know what I would do if I had to put a child in the local public schools. I would guess they would be okay in elementary school, but I would have to move an hour away to an area that has some diversity and charter schools/non-religious private schools or home school. I would not, under any circumstances, send my child to a junior high school or high school in my current district. It's not even a remote option. If I had to stay here, I would homeschool without a second thought.

[FiddleDD]

This.

I started homeschooling in 8th grade and was surprised that I had been wasting 10 hours of my day the previous year getting ready for, attending school, or riding the bus home. When I started homeschooling it only took 3 hours (if that) on any given day to complete all of my schooling (including learning the Mandarin language!). By the time I was in 10th grade, I was planning on graduating a year early, and also taking a couple college courses at the local community college. The sole reason I want to homeschool my kids is because I feel that my Public/Private school education was not only lacking, but that it took away from time to explore my interests and develop passions/belief systems. I never would have had time to develop such an intense passion for wildlife conservation- and I wouldn't have had so much time to study this interest of mine- if I had of continued my education in a brick and mortar classroom.

Me too. I spent half my days in public school reading a book waiting for the other kids to finish. When I started homeschooling I couldn't believe how little time it took to cover the same amount of information.

Yeah, homeschooling can be done very badly, I have a good friend that is an example of that. But I've also seen kids graduate high school barely able to read. Getting a good education is not an either or. It all depends. My sister wound up with a bum curriculum one year for my nephew, so she supplemented. If it's important, you make sure your child gets a good education. And she's not a college graduate. Just a good mother making sure her child is learning, even when she has to relearn it first.

I have a lot of strong feelings about homeschooling. I know the people here see the worst of the worst, but I would never be comfortable handing over my child's education to strangers. I want my kids to learn to love learning, because with that lesson they will never stop learning. I want them to learn everything, not just what a bunch of guys in Texas decided should be in the textbooks.

[Freyacat]

I am very interested in the stories of those of you who got a high quality, non-fundie homeschool education, as I am considering homeschooling my 4 year old. What was the good and bad about being homeschooled? Any tips on how to do it right? I've tried reading homeschool books but it seems all the ones I come across are religious in nature, and most of the homeschoolers I know personally are religious. Some of them are religious and also focused on academic rigor, others... not so much. Our family would be doing completely secular homeschooling.

[elanej]

I was home schooled from kindergarten through high school. I truly value my education and will probably home school my kids. I went on to college and graduated summa cum laude. All of my siblings were home schooled as well and my brother recently graduated from Texas A & M. My other two siblings are still in college. While my parents alternated between fundie and fundie-lite at the time we were being home schooled, they still gave us a quality education and they also encouraged reading. I became known in the library as the girl who would check out 50 books at a time and would read them in 2 weeks.

I struggle with many aspects of what I was taught religiously during that time period, but I still see the value of home schooling done well. Just like any other sub-culture in this country there are always those who will give home schooling a bad name and leave a bitter taste in people's mouths. I, too, get extremely irritated by them and wish that they didn't represent those of us who successfully emerged with a good education.

[klf7412]

I am very interested in the stories of those of you who got a high quality, non-fundie homeschool education, as I am considering homeschooling my 4 year old. What was the good and bad about being homeschooled? Any tips on how to do it right? I've tried reading homeschool books but it seems all the ones I come across are religious in nature, and most of the homeschoolers I know personally are religious. Some of them are religious and also focused on academic rigor, others... not so much. Our family would be doing completely secular homeschooling.

First I will give you a background (and then answer your question).

I went to a private christian school in Kindergarten.

From first through 7th grade, I attended a variety of public schools.

In 8th grade I started homeschooling for a variety of reasons, one of which was my public schools resistance to allowing me to take honors courses (even though I was obviously able to do them).

Now on to your question...

What is good about being homeschooled?

First and foremost I would say it is the ability to expand and learn about your interests. I am 99% positive that I wouldn't have discovered my love for wildlife conservation if I hadn't started homeschooling. If I never had of discovered this love, I never would have founded my non-profit. Homeschooling allowed me to focus a good portion of my education on the things I love, and in turn, I have a deep understanding of subjects that I am passionate about rather than just a mediocre understanding of required high school curriculum (I also have mediocre understanding of required high school curriculum-- it just isn't my only knowledge gained in High School, unlike some of my friends).

Some of the other benefits include: getting to choose curriculum! I LOVED researching curriculum, and could probably give you a good list of secular ones .:) Homeschooling also allowed me to work at my own pace. My pace was, on average, much faster than the prescribed 10-month school year, but on days that I needed some extra time getting my work done, it was allowed and that was awesome! I would also occasionally take a break from school work during the week-- I loved this because it gave me a chance to take a break and recharge.

One of the things that I was also able to do during high school is take college courses (I doubt I would have wanted to if I wasn't homeschooling..), and I found this very beneficial to nurturing my passion for wildlife while I was waiting to start working in the conservation field (I took nature science courses at the community college).

Negatives of homeschooling?

I only have one.

Cost. Of course, some people can do it very cheaply, but as my Mom and I were new to homeschooling, we dished out a lot of money (at first) that could have been saved.

[klf7412]

I am very interested in the stories of those of you who got a high quality, non-fundie homeschool education, as I am considering homeschooling my 4 year old. What was the good and bad about being homeschooled? Any tips on how to do it right? I've tried reading homeschool books but it seems all the ones I come across are religious in nature, and most of the homeschoolers I know personally are religious. Some of them are religious and also focused on academic rigor, others... not so much. Our family would be doing completely secular homeschooling.

Oh, I wanted to add one more thing.. You ask "Any tips on how to do it right?"

One of the biggest things to understand when it comes to homeschooling is that there isn't just one right way to do it. Learn your child. Learn how he/she learns and tailor the curriculum to their learning style. Nurture their interests. If your child becomes enthralled by all things dinosaur, take the day off from school books and go to a museum where he/she can learn more about them! One of my biggest tips would be to get in the habit of learning all the time. Answer your kids questions when they ask. Sleep underneath the stars to give your child an education on constellations. Use the world as your classroom (I think I am quoting Michelle Duggar there.. Ignore that. lol). Learning doesn't have to only take place from 9-12:30 5 days a week. Formal sit down schooling is important, but it shouldn't be the most important part of your schooling (at least in the elementary school days).

[Hisey]

My kids have only known public education and while I've offered them the opportunity to homeschool they flatly refuse. They know some homeschoolers--a good friend has two kids she homeschools--and they see the advantages. They just love school and love being with their friends. They are 12 and 9 and I have some faith in their opinions.

I am not a wholehearted fan of public schools--I see many, many things wrong with them--but I have to admit I see a lot of good in them too. I am in my kids' schools a lot, and you know what I see? Quiet classrooms with engaged, busy kids. Interesting projects that I could never think up myself. Math teachers who convey difficult concepts in ways my third-grader understand and remembers. Teachers who are, for the most part, kind, caring people. Kids forming friendships. A surprising lack of bullying (compared to my own childhood).

When I do see a problem in the public school, I find administrators very difficult and uncaring. But I push for what I believe is right. And I often get my way. So I don't think public school is perfect, and I"m not afraid to complain.

Admittedly, my kids are in a "good" school district. I have worked at a school in a "bad" district--and you know what? I found the same good things--kind teachers, decent curriculum, busy kids, etc. The difference was, the kids came from difficult family situations. They were not taught and home and they often had difficult struggles to deal with there. So the learning didn't happen as quickly or as well.

I've offered my kids homeschooling because I love learning and think it would be fun to learn with them. I think I could do it faster, and occasionally better, than the public schools my kids attend. But they don't want to leave their friends, and their successes in school. They love the structure, too.

[Freyacat]

Oh, I wanted to add one more thing.. You ask "Any tips on how to do it right?"

One of the biggest things to understand when it comes to homeschooling is that there isn't just one right way to do it. Learn your child. Learn how he/she learns and tailor the curriculum to their learning style. Nurture their interests. If your child becomes enthralled by all things dinosaur, take the day off from school books and go to a museum where he/she can learn more about them! One of my biggest tips would be to get in the habit of learning all the time. Answer your kids questions when they ask. Sleep underneath the stars to give your child an education on constellations. Use the world as your classroom (I think I am quoting Michelle Duggar there.. Ignore that. lol). Learning doesn't have to only take place from 9-12:30 5 days a week. Formal sit down schooling is important, but it shouldn't be the most important part of your schooling (at least in the elementary school days).

Thank you for your replies!

I am already trying to do much of this, especially with nurturing interests. My son is currently completely obsessed with science experiments. We have built circuits with batteries and lemons and salt water. We have tested everything we can to see what's magnetic. We've made all kinds of crazy mixtures and learned about why they do what they do. We've built simple machines out of craft supplies that demonstrate things like pulleys and ramps. He seems to absorb all of it too, because I've seen him repeat our experiments later with his dad or grandparents, and explain to them how it works. We are fortunate enough to live near an excellent science museum that does hands on activities, and he loves going there. I am trying to gently encourage him to learn other things as well. For instance, he doesn't really have much interest in learning to read. He loves books, but he's happy for me to read to him; he's more interested in absorbing the information I read to him in a more complex book than he is in slowly going through and puzzling out the words in a simple book. I don't think he has to read at 4, but I do worry about if he still shows no interest a year from now - at some point he needs to learn even the things he has less interest in. But for now, we follow what he likes to do.

To me one of the main reasons to homeschool is to allow a child to go at their own pace. I was pretty uneven in my skills. I was way ahead of grade level in reading and anything associated with it, like vocabulary and spelling. But my math skills were just fair to middling. In my school district, you were either remedial, on level, or AG (academically gifted), and that was for all subjects. There wasn't a way to get into AG for just some things, and they used test scores to determine who took AG classes. I tested into AG classes on the strength of my verbal skills. But I struggled a lot with the accelerated math they expected of me. I think to this day I would have stronger math skills if I'd been able to slow down until I really understood everything. I also take issue with the categorization of kids involved in this whole process. My brother is not great at standardized tests and never tested into AG despite being, I think, as bright as I was when we were kids. I don't want my son to decide what he thinks he's capable of based on an arbitrary test or placement. And I want him to be able to approach each subject at his own pace - even if that means that in 2nd grade, he's doing 1st grade, 2nd grade and 3rd grade work in different subjects because that's where his level is.

I do worry a bit about it being isolating because he is an only child. We are going to have to make a strong effort to get out and join group activities. And he's actually pretty introverted too. He is happy with having whole days at home with mom and dad, but we try to not have more than one or maybe two of those days a week, and to hit a playground or museum or art class or the gym childcare most days so he's around other kids. In a way it would be easier with an extroverted child who eagerly sought out other kids on the playground (my son's best friend is that way, which actually is great because when they play together, my son's best friend gets random other kids to join in their games in a way my son would never do on his own). So that's not a dealbreaker against homeschooling, but it is something I feel I will need to be conscious of all the time.

Ending this post soon before it becomes a tl;dr but I absolutely would love recommendations for secular curricula. I've looked at a few subjects. We've looked at Saxon Math and Horizons Math but I don't know which I like yet. I've looked at reading curricula but would prefer to handle reading with "real" books rather than textbooks, unless that approach doesn't work out. For science in the first few years, we already have a million Let's Read and Find out Science, Usborne Beginners, Magic School Bus, and hands on DK and Janice Van Cleave science books, since he's so in to that stuff. Any favorites on any subject that you can recommend? :)

[LadyBlue]

I just typed a huge post about what we use, but I don't want to derail too much, so I'm going to pm it. If anyone else is actually interested, let me know. :)

[Ramona]

for anyone interested:

http://www.secularhomeschool.com/forum.php

^ very active *secular* homeschool forum :)

[browngrl]

I think that homeschooling can work if you actually teach and seek assistance from more qualified teachers when approaching a subject that you lack skill in AND if the child can work well with this environment. I actually think I would have thrived in this sort of environment.

However, if you are going to spend your time teaching by getting the children to do copy work from the bible or "character" studies or if you have an older sibling teach between cleaning and cooking while you are sick with yet another pregnancy then you are not teaching you are indoctrinating. Your children will be educationally crippled.

[chaotic life]

My choice to homeschool has ALWAYS been based upon academic reasons and not religious reasons. I actually hate that homeschooling is part and parcel to the religious nutjobs because it's two different things you are talking about.

I do use a couple of religious based materials, but only because they meet my rigorous requirements that they don't actually *teach* religion and they are academically sound. Most of the religious materials I use are in the VERY early elementary grades. Currently, I use A Reason for Writing for handwriting with my kinder kiddo and Pathway Readers.

There was one year I used religious materials for the kids. I put the older kids in Switched on Schoolhouse, thinking they could use the computer based program and it would relieve me to focus on the medical needs of the new child. It was an absolute disaster. I used it for 2/3 of the school year, discovered they had learned NOTHING and had in fact lost skills in English and grammar. It took far more effort to fix that disaster than it ever saved me by trying it. I grew more cautious of religious based materials and rarely use them after about 3rd grade level now.

I also reached a point where I realized schooling is not an either/or situation. I first started homeschooling because the children I had needed a one on one, custom tailored approach to their education, at least at that point. I started transitioning children to public school because I felt they needed a more structured environment and to learn how to operate in a school setting and with same-age peers. At this point, I have five in public school, primarily honor roll students. I am still homeschooling three, but the younger two will do elementary at home and transition to public school unless they have challenges. The one who will not enter classroom style education until college has very unique challenges that make a school environment a horrible idea for him. I put him in K-12 one year, long enough to get his formal testing, his diagnosis, his IEP and his formally sanctioned accomodations. I did it because if they are not fully resolved by college, that will be sufficient to garner testing and necessary accomodations in college should he require them.

Homeschooling can be a terrific option for kids when it's done with the assurance that it is to provide superior education. It can also be an unmitigated disaster. Most of the patriarchal homeschoolers consider poor education part of the goal. They consider that girls do not need and should not receive sufficient education to allow them to leave the subservient role that they must remain in their entire lives. Some consider giving a girl sufficient education to provide an elementary/middle school education is all she should have. The rest of her "education" centers on moral training, the homemaking arts, and brainwashing her to not question her path in life. It's very common to hold the belief that a mother should only be teaching her young sons and by high school ages he should be trained by the father and surpass her educational level entirely. It's common to hold that higher education does not garner a better life, when the reality is that there is tremendous fear that boys who leave for secular schooling/training will be led astray. Thus, even sons are not encouraged to consider college their goal. The concept of apprenticeships is strong and growing with patriarchal groups. It's this entire paradigm shift. For these groups, education is NOT about educating in the sense the rest of the world considers but about indoctrinating them so they won't leave that world.

[Hane]

Admittedly, my kids are in a "good" school district. I have worked at a school in a "bad" district--and you know what? I found the same good things--kind teachers, decent curriculum, busy kids, etc. The difference was, the kids came from difficult family situations. They were not taught and home and they often had difficult struggles to deal with there. So the learning didn't happen as quickly or as well.

Exactly. My daughter and my sister both taught for several years in what were called "bad," "inner-city" schools. It's sad but true: when there are significant numbers of kids coming from difficult home situations, teachers end up having to devote much of their class time to management issues, and proportionately less to actual teaching.

Re kids' decisions to homeschool or not: A colleague's teenaged daughter decided to opt out of public high school and do K-12 online at home. She's a smart, focused young woman, and said that too much of her school day was being wasted while she waited for classmates to "catch up." She was also sick of the teenaged soap opera drama, unwanted attentions from boys, and gossip.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I'll put in a bit of a good word for copywork from a former student's POV - not from the Bible, though. I had reading help from an older woman who grew up doing copywork and she had me do it, but it was about copying out examples of good sentences from whatever we were reading (or the entire story sometimes in the very early books). If I was reading a story and had to look up a word, I would copy out the sentence containing that word into a notebook, and review those. Writing it out was a way to make my brain stay focused on a good sentence for a few minutes while writing it out, and get my hands involved. Also it meant I remembered those words in the context in which I found them. We diagrammed some sentences too.

It became a habit, I find that I still write out (or type into Word files, ha) nice turns of phrase I come across in my reading.

When it comes to the whole "only teach girls enough to teach their brothers and sons through elementary and then hand them off to men for their real education" it just makes me mad (yes, I've read the same thing). Always the parents are insisting the girls want it that way, but if so, why force it? Maybe we should ask THEM...

[AmyP]

We talk a lot about homeschool families who only teach from the bible, and homeschool families who don't educate girls, but I have been active in the Christian homeschool community for a long time now and I have never met a family like this. Even the most fundy families I know sent their daughters to college. In fact, the most fundy Catholic families I know have the best educated children (boys and girls equally educated), and they all sent their daughters to college as well. I have never met a family who uses the bible as a textbook for subjects other than religion or bible history. Not one. I know these families are out there, but they represent a very small percentage of homeschool families as a whole.