More spanking and no snacks= Fewer cases of ADHD

[Koala]

Kelly is worried folks. Too many kids in America have been diagnosed with ADHD. Fortunately for her, she and many other fundie parents have known the solution all along: Fewer snacks, more spanking.

Well, thank God the French have caught wind of it (I'm sure they are doing it just like Kelly :roll: ) and now almost no French children have ADHD.

Children are not allowed, for example, to snack whenever they want. Mealtimes are at four specific times of the day. French children learn to wait patiently for meals, rather than eating snack foods whenever they feel like it.

See? No snacks, no ADHD. Correlation=Causation. Now just ponder with me a minute. How much better do you think these kids would be if they had truly dedicated parents? You know that ones that do things like:

~Having more kids than they can afford to feed.

~Putting locks on the fridge.

~Feeding 11 people 2 chicken breasts and some wilted celery.

And spanking, when used judiciously, is not considered child abuse in France.

Because hitting a child is not abuse. I would love it if every time a fundie used the word "spank" it auto corrected to "hit".

Go that? Hitting= No ADHD.

Idiotic comments:

I am sure my son would be diagnosed as ADHD if we had him tested. But we choose not to and have helped him instead with getting a healthy dose of fish oils and limiting distractions when he is working and needs to focus.

What's this you say? No snacks and hitting didn't work for this family? hmmm.... Oh well. At least they had the good sense to NOT get him diagnosed. Can't lose with a plan like that <----- extreme sarcasm

:pull-hair:

[OkToBeTakei]

She did though totally cherry pick the part out of the article that suit her (nothing new there.) I read the article. The comments make for interesting reading.

Not sure how this particular psychologist is qualified to talk for all parents in France although the statistical evidence of medicated children does vary worldwide.

[Arete]

I don't think she understands the difference between not having access to chips and Cheetos whenever you want and the fundie method of locking the refrigerator and limiting food at meals. First off, I doubt there are many French women who have children till their uteruses go into the Witness Protection Program. Second, they wouldn't dream of feeding 11 people two chicken breasts, and then bragging about it.

[kpmom]

Kelly is worried folks. Too many kids in America have been diagnosed with ADHD. Fortunately for her, she and many other fundie parents have known the solution all along: Fewer snacks, more spanking.

Well, thank God the French have caught wind of it (I'm sure they are doing it just like Kelly :roll: ) and now almost no French children have ADHD.

See? No snacks, no ADHD. Correlation=Causation. Now just ponder with me a minute. How much better do you think these kids would be if they had truly dedicated parents? You know that ones that do things like:

~Having more kids than they can afford to feed.

~Putting locks on the fridge.

~Feeding 11 people 2 chicken breasts and some wilted celery.

Because hitting a child is not abuse. I would love it if every time a fundie used the word "spank" it auto corrected to "hit".

Go that? Hitting= No ADHD.

Idiotic comments:

What's this you say? No snacks and hitting didn't work for this family? hmmm.... Oh well. At least they had the good sense to NOT get him diagnosed. Can't lose with a plan like that <----- extreme sarcasm

:pull-hair:

So, France is good when it's cutting out snacks and spanking its' kids, but bad when it's socialist, secular, and allowing gay marriage. Got it.

[August]

Not to mention state-run long day child care from 3months on. 80% of French mothers work.

I'm not sure I need to say any more but that that article was in prychology today, but if you're not familiar with the site (it's as credible as mercola), the fact that the author's topic is how ADHD medications are evil, that's all she writes about. Plus, PT has a counter, from an actual French child psychologist saying yes, they medicate less, but rates are the same.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/her ... -interview

Dr. Sarkis said that in France there is a "strong negative cultural belief against medication" for children with psychiatric disorders. However, he said, children with ADHD continue to suffer the consequences of the disorder. Regarding the impact of undiagnosed and unmedicated ADHD in France, Dr. Sarkis said, "the reality is that there are French kids in prison, a high rate of tobacco use, and kids dropping out of school".

Dr. Sarkis said said that if a French child with ADHD receives "excellent parenting, high structure, and clear expectations from parents" it can mitigate behaviors, However, it is "at the price of the child experiencing increased anxiety and internalizing problems". For those children who are not able to receive excellent parenting and high structure, ADHD behaviors can be extremely impairing.

In France it is difficult for parents to get an evaluation and treatment for their ADHD child. It takes 8 months for a child to get an appointment with a specialist, and it can take another 8 months before a child is prescribed medication (Getin, 2011).

Fortunately, Dr. Sarkis said, the concept of ADHD as a serious, treatable disorder is gaining strength in France. Parents are learning more about ADHD via the Internet, and there are more centers being established to help treat this debiliating disorder.

[Jana814]

I don't think she understands the difference between not having access to chips and Cheetos whenever you want and the fundie method of locking the refrigerator and limiting food at meals. First off, I doubt there are many French women who have children till their uteruses go into the Witness Protection Program. Second, they wouldn't dream of feeding 11 people two chicken breasts, and then bragging about it.

Agree!

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Personally, no spanking and no snacks makes me very grumpy.

[August]

I don't want to imagine my life if I let my children's blood sugar swing all over the place. They eat fruit, cheese and nuts sitting at the table (with napkins!) at least every three hours. I tell when it's time by the tone and volume of their voices.

[yetanothermeg]

I have ADHD and I was spanked. I was also allowed to eat snacks though, so I guess my neurological difference is all my mom's fault. But isn't everything, really.

[dpndetfarm]

Aw shit! You mean I could have saved all kinds of time and effort addressing my children's ADD if I had simply hit them and withheld snacks? Damn!, I wasted YEARS of my life!

Sigh.............

[Marian the Librarian]

The harder Kelly tries to pass off her "counter-cultural" ideas and her pseudo-intellectual self, the more she proves what an utter mess she is. This latest post strikes me as another way of saying "There's hardly any food in our fridge, but it's for a really good reason, folks." What a sad, terrifying existence she leads.

[OkToBeTakei]

Are they still trying to remove it from DSM classification. I recall a huge drive to do so, with it being based on purely behavioural criteria rather than any neurological or psychological criteria?

Diagnostic criteria for Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder:

A. Either (1) o r (2):

(1) six (or more) of the following symptoms of inattention have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:

Inattention

(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities

(b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities

© often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly

(d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork. Chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions)

(e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities

(f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework)

(g) often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g. toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools)

(h) is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli

(i) is often forgetful in daily activities

(2) six (or more) of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-Impulsivity have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:

Hyperactivity

(a) oft en fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat

(b) often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining

seated is expected

© often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to subjective feelings of restlessness)

(d) often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly

(e) is often “on the go†or often acts as if “driven by a motorâ€

(f) often talks excessively.

Impulsivity

(g) often blurts out answers before questions ha ve been completed

(h) often has difficulty awaiting turn

(i) often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games)

B. Some hyperactive-impulsive or inattentive symptoms that caused impairment were present before age 7 years.

C. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g. at school [or work] and at home).

D. There must be dear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

E. The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia. or other Psychotic Disorder and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, DissociativeDisorder, or a Personality Disorder).

I always felt the diagnostic criteria was so broad as to positively make it easy for professionals to go down the easy route of medicating. I think this makes it doubly hard for parents who wish to pursue other therapies really difficult. Each child is an individual rather than a multi-choice and should in my view be treated that way holistically.

Having a label which is diagnosed under the umbrella of a Mental Disorder is not for me the answer.

There again Kelly thinks it's all about spanking and snacks. These poor kids and their parents face as much stigma from all angles.

[Jinger Jar]

Sweeping generalizations are never convincing arguments. They're shoddy thinking. Kelly needs to read more, learn more, and both widen and deepen her worldview. And she needs to do whatever she needs to do to ensure that her children always, always have enough to eat.

Her brand of toxic parenting is the stuff people spend their adult lives in therapy trying to overcome. There are long battles ahead for her kids if they're to have any hope of knowing peace and self-love. :cry:

[Effie]

Because hitting a child is not abuse. I would love it if every time a fundie used the word "spank" it auto corrected to "hit".

Yeah, I can't really see any "expert" saying that. That's like one of the first semesters at social work school: what's child abuse. I mean, even n00bies know that physical abuse = spanking... and then there's someone with a PHD in psychology (?) who is completely ignorant about that? I call bullshit.

[Effie]

Her brand of toxic parenting is the stuff people spend their adult lives in therapy trying to overcome. There are long battles ahead for her kids if they're to have any hope of knowing peace and self-love. :cry:

Oh... that's very sad, and unfortunately most likely true. Not to mention all years it would take for her kids to get at least a high school diploma. I mean, if Kelly doesn't know what a credible source of information is, then that means her children have been taught pseudo-science and other bullshit/lies their whole lives. (I challenge anyone to find a credible source on that blog, because I fail to find one.)

[Koala]

This latest post strikes me as another way of saying "There's hardly any food in our fridge, but it's for a really good reason, folks."

+1

[OkToBeTakei]

Oh... that's very sad, and unfortunately most likely true. Not to mention all years it would take for her kids to get at least a high school diploma. I mean, if Kelly doesn't know what a credible source of information is, then that means her children have been taught pseudo-science and other bullshit/lies their whole lives. (I challenge anyone to find a credible source on that blog, because I fail to find one.)

They can make...err soap?

[bal maiden]

Yeah, I can't really see any "expert" saying that. That's like one of the first semesters at social work school: what's child abuse. I mean, even n00bies know that physical abuse = spanking... and then there's someone with a PHD in psychology (?) who is completely ignorant about that? I call bullshit.

I think there's a difference between saying "spanking is not abuse" and "many French people do not see spanking as abuse". The latter is a perfectly valid point for someone with a PhD is psychology (or better sociology, actually, but anyway...) to make; the former less so.

[alcharisi]

Speaking as an adult with ADHD, I find I am better able to concentrate when I have a snack. (Adderall, of course, helps even more.) And this sort of attitude about ADHD makes it that much harder for those of us who legitimately need treatment to get the help we need. (I was diagnosed as a grad student, and I was the one who initiated the process, even though by all rights I probably should have been diagnosed in elementary school.)

But of course--it's as simple as hitting kids. That makes tons of sense. Sheesh. Generation Cedar used to be on my reading list, but her sheer bile proved to much for even my morbid fascination.

[JesusFightClub]

I've got ADD, but don't have ADHD. It is just really difficult to concentrate on anything which doesn't fix my attention. I don't mean "bored, but focusing". It can be that I'm in a meeting for three hours and I haven't been *there* for a minute of it. All kinds of stuff gets in the way of what I should be doing or thinking about, and marshaling my thoughts is like herding cats.

I fidget a lot and stretch a lot, that's me trying to get my head together to focus on what I should be doing. And tiny things can distract me - it took me half an hour to write a couple of lines for work today because a! spider! doing cool things and what are spiders thinking? and do they think? and what is the concept "thought" anyway? and do cats think more like spiders or like people, when you consider that quote that says a 15 year old girl's brain patterns are much closer to a fifty-five year old man's than a toddler's are to a four year old, and what book was that in anyway and I need to take the books to the charity shop but not the US SWP book I have which might be in the pile and there was an argument about cosmetics in a socialist society which was valuable if outdated, why did I put it in the pile? it was in the pile because that night I got annoyed didn't I and...

Anyway, you get the picture. :roll:

It's just the way some people's minds work. Might be extremely irritating (and by all accounts it is) but I was not allowed snacks as a kid and was spanked, and nothing changed.

[hywelis]

I've got ADD, but don't have ADHD. It is just really difficult to concentrate on anything which doesn't fix my attention. I don't mean "bored, but focusing". It can be that I'm in a meeting for three hours and I haven't been *there* for a minute of it. All kinds of stuff gets in the way of what I should be doing or thinking about, and marshaling my thoughts is like herding cats.

I fidget a lot and stretch a lot, that's me trying to get my head together to focus on what I should be doing. And tiny things can distract me - it took me half an hour to write a couple of lines for work today because a! spider! doing cool things and what are spiders thinking? and do they think? and what is the concept "thought" anyway? and do cats think more like spiders or like people, when you consider that quote that says a 15 year old girl's brain patterns are much closer to a fifty-five year old man's than a toddler's are to a four year old, and what book was that in anyway and I need to take the books to the charity shop but not the US SWP book I have which might be in the pile and there was an argument about cosmetics in a socialist society which was valuable if outdated, why did I put it in the pile? it was in the pile because that night I got annoyed didn't I and...

Anyway, you get the picture. :roll:

It's just the way some people's minds work. Might be extremely irritating (and by all accounts it is) but I was not allowed snacks as a kid and was spanked, and nothing changed.

Totally OT, but I was glad to see your post. You don't know me as a user because I rarely post and delurked only recently, but I always appreciated your posts. I was afraid you had your account deleted and I am glad it's not the case.

I look forward to reading more from you.

Hywelis

[Feberin]

If spanking stops ADHD then why do all my MIL's kids have it when she is a huge advocate of spanking? Perhaps if only she had cut out the snacks?

I do think ADD and ADHD is over diagnosed in our country. The fact that birthdate impacts the number of diagnoses (http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/05/health/ad ... ngest-kids) seems to be a big indicator in SOME cases it's a child that is just not mature enough yet.

[TrueRebel1]

Some random thoughts, and bear in mind these are merely my personal observations/opinions:

1) "Fewer snacks= less ADHD" I would love to see more info on this, because I don't think the issue is having snacks; but it's what the snacks consist of. For example, here in America typical kids snacks are full of sugar, white carbs, unhealthy fats, and toxic dyes and flavorings. That kind of snack is the perfect cocktail of ingredients to aggravate even a "normal" child into "bad" behavior. I have seen studies where these types of snacks were removed from the diet of ADHD children, and their symptoms were significantly improved.

2) "My kid would be diagnosed with ADHD if we had him tested" On one hand, this is a ridiculous statement. If I have cancer but never visit the doctor to have it diagnosed, do I not have cancer?! Whatever. On the other hand, I do truly believe that ADHD is far too often used as a "diagnoses" when children are perfectly normal. I have close friends in the medical field who tell me they see this all the time. :pink-shock:

3) Now as far as the article saying that the French setting routines, schedules, and boundaries help to reduce ADHD: I know that for typical children, it's true that structure and boundaries help them stay calm, feel safe, and be creative and productive. Maybe I feel this way because I've had a wonderful experience with the Montessori method of schooling and child-raising. But I've seen firsthand, for example, that preschool-aged kids attending a typical daycare (i.e. overload of toys, loud music, constant entertainment, over-stimulation) come home wound-up, not willing to listen to instructions, and not able to focus on constructive play. (In other words, throwing fits, want to be entertained, but quickly lose interest, and pretty much a parent's worst nightmare.) Alternatively, preschool-aged kids attending a Montessori classroom come home in a peaceful, happy mood, able to follow thru with instructions, and interested in entertaining themselves with constructive play. Now this is not meant to dis one type of preschool or another...just an example that structure and boundaries can absolutely impact behavior! Will it eliminate ADHD? Probably not. But how we treat our kids, what setting we provide for them, and what we expect of them can absolutely impact them, I believe.

Ok, pick me apart all you want. I just happen to feel strongly about the issue of ADHD and fundies, so I couldn't resist commenting. :)

[RosyDaisy]

Sweeping generalizations are never convincing arguments. They're shoddy thinking. Kelly needs to read more, learn more, and both widen and deepen her worldview. And she needs to do whatever she needs to do to ensure that her children always, always have enough to eat.

Her brand of toxic parenting is the stuff people spend their adult lives in therapy trying to overcome. There are long battles ahead for her kids if they're to have any hope of knowing peace and self-love. :cry:

And chances are some of her kids will end up just like her :cry:

[Effie]

I think there's a difference between saying "spanking is not abuse" and "many French people do not see spanking as abuse". The latter is a perfectly valid point for someone with a PhD is psychology (or better sociology, actually, but anyway...) to make; the former less so.

Oh, normally I can read - I promise (although it sure doesn't seem like it :pull-hair: ). How sad that one of the few times I come across a sociologist on the internet and I don't even know. I should have got that from the article. It reads more like sociology...

Speaking of missing former freejingers, I still miss Lissar. Team Lissar, you know... :(