New crazy 'beauty' standard: the thigh gap!

[gnegirl]

I had to worry about 'chub rub' even when I weighed 110 lbs, i'm 5 ft 5 in high.

As a distance runner, i discovered 'body glide', and the stuff is amazing, I can wear short running shorts without chafing when i'm doing distances over 3 miles.

[gnegirl]

Totally unrelated, i just had to laugh at my status 'Lurking since Yuku'!

[hoipolloi]

What's saddest of all is that many of the so-called "thigh gap" models these young women try to emulate only look that way through serious photo-shopping.

Check out this series of before & after gifs from Buzzfeed: buzzfeed.com/jessicamisener/17-mesmerizing-before-after-photoshop-gifs

[Violet]

Thanks for the link hoipolloi! I can't decide if I feel better or worse for seeing it though, it does piss me off that photos in magazines are always photoshopped. (Yes photos of me in our most recent family photos were photoshopped, they had to remove the red burn from my forehead caused by my mum straightening my hair an hour before the photoshoot, but that was slightly different as it was the first family photo we'd had done in 20 years!) I remember Aleesha Dixon did a program about magazines photoshopping celebrities a few years ago and had diffculties trying to find a magazine who wouldn't photoshop her pictures....

[So Many Lies]

Z :roll: zzzzzzzzzzzzz. It's always something. I hate the media, body police, food police, thigh police.

[Lady]

So, pretty much it's just popular to have big pokey hip bones right now?

I feel like I read at some point (I can't find a link, so it may have been in a book--or I may just be making this up) that the "popular" body shape of people in history has a positive correlation to the health of the economy: curvier shapes are more popular when the economy is doing well, but skinniness is in when the economy is doing poorly. Or maybe I have that backwards? Back to Google.

Also, LOL @LittleMissMetaphor!

I believe it's the opposite. During times when there is scarcity a heavy body will be more attractive because it has stored fat that can be used in the future. It also implies that the person gets enough to eat therefore is secure.

[snarkbillie]

Back in the day you had to be rich to be fat. You had to have enough food and be idle enough to lay about. Now, it's almost like you have to be rich to be thin. Poorer areas have a higher incidence of obesity. Celebs can afford personal trainers, special diets of fancy food, plastic surgery, etc.*

*I am not saying that you can't exercise for free or that it's impossible to eat healthy on a budget. Do not read those into my post. I do not want to debate about lentils and how you can lift a milk jug for weights and jog around the block. Do not want.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Another hilarious site is Photoshop Disasters: http://www.psdisasters.com/

The disasters there are from all sorts of genres including military, but when they feature photoshopped models it can be particularly hilarious. In the zeal to trim off some "fat" they often end up completely deformed, where the line of their body doesn't even match or they would have to be boneless or similar. Sometimes it takes a moment to notice the problem when you do, it's just really bad.

[thoughtful]

This thread made me think of this great quote from Barbara Kingsolver's Pigs in Heaven, spoken by a character in her 60s:

"When I was in my thirties I had these little square hips left over from being pregnant and I just hated it. I kept thinking 'All those years before, I had a perfect glamour-girl body, and I didn't spend one minute appreciating it because I thought my nose had a bump in it.'

And now that I'm old, my shoulder hurts and I don't sleep good and my knuckles swell up, and I think,'All those years in my thirties and forties I had a body where everything worked perfect and I didn't spend one minute appreciating it because I thought I had square hips.'"

[musicalbookworm]

And whenever I tried to look for help in getting into shape/gaining weight, all I heard about was weight *loss*, which is pretty damn discouraging. I've largely recovered from my weight issues, but I'm still trying to get into shape for perfectly good health reasons, and still everywhere I go, it's all about fucking weight loss. It's really annoying and de-motivating.

Being thin-shamed to fucking oblivion made me pretty sympathetic, ironically, to the shit fat women face as well, because it's all the same fucking thing and women absolutely cannot win the war on weight.

A fucking men! I'm a fat chick, always have been and always will be. I really believe a lot of the health issues in the US are related to how we think about physical activity in the US. I'm a belly dancer and looking to start teaching in my new town. I believe it is important to have exercise instructors of all shapes and sizes. Try joining a gym and saying my goals are pretty simple. I want to work on upper-body strength and maintain flexibility. I might do a bit of aerobic activity now and again, but I try to get that through walking. Sure they'll let you join and all, but every time you go to the gym you are hit with weight loss crap. Naturally thin people think they're ok and those of us who will never be thin don't see the point anymore. Then various authorities and studies try to tell us how much we should exercise. I can barely keep the dust mites from growing large enough to eat the cats and I'm supposed to find another hour to hit the gym every day!?

Don't even get me started on many American's first exposure to exercise in the torture that is Elementary PE. It took me many years to get rid of the association of PE with physical activity. Especially since this PE consisted of games that often allowed the strong to pick on the weak. Yeah, I still don't think playing Dodge Ball when you know you have a visually impaired kid in the class was a good idea.

I can't drive and am struck by the people who can. In my last town, I lived a few blocks from campus. I don't know how many times I saw people who lived closer to campus than me driving. Whaaaat?

Is it any wonder we aren't in such good shape?

[Wolfie]

Don't even get me started on many American's first exposure to exercise in the torture that is Elementary PE. It took me many years to get rid of the association of PE with physical activity. Especially since this PE consisted of games that often allowed the strong to pick on the weak. Yeah, I still don't think playing Dodge Ball when you know you have a visually impaired kid in the class was a good idea.

Luckily, at least in my area, elementary PE is improving. I don't see any form of Dodge ball until Middle school, and even then it is rare. I hated PE as a child because my legs fly every which way when I try to run due to the rotated hip joints, and kids will tease horribly for that, and I couldn't run as fast as them.

[Maggie Mae]

I loved PE, until our gym teacher quit mid class. They never hired another one. Two years later I went to high school, and they waived my PE requirement due to Varsity sports & marching band. :/

We never played dodge ball though. We did the president's fitness challenge, and played games that, in hindsight, seem kind of hippie friendly (pass the ball, bounce things on a parachute, relay races, etc.) and tennis/golf so we could "network" in our adult lives. (Everyone in my class already knew how to play tennis & about half knew how to hit a golf ball) I don't really understand why schools insist on dodgeball, really. There are a million other things to learn how to play. Basketball, volleyball, tennis, golf, running around, rugby, touch football, catch, kickball, swimming, playing any type of game at all that has you move.

PS I don't have a thigh gap and probably never will. And yes, I'm sad about this and I do think the gap looks more comfortable then having my thighs rub together.

[Iokaste]

I really believe a lot of the health issues in the US are related to how we think about physical activity in the US.

Couldn't agree more! Please don't misunderstand me, I love travelling in the US and I'm not one of those Europeans who thinks everything is better over here, but this is one area where the general US-approach baffles me. I always put on weight when I spend time over there and it's not that I go fast-food-crazy, it's just that somehow all natural excercise has been succesfully deleted from everyday life! No one (yes, yes, generalizing here) uses bikes as means of transport, no one walks anywhere and in a lot of places you could'nt even if you wanted too for lack of side-walks, escalators has replaced stairs and machines has taken over lawn-moving, kneading of dough, dish-washing and all those little things, that actually can make a big difference in your overall health.

I'm really carefull about how many machines I let into my life, as I'm not to big on excercise I prefer to get it the "old-fahsioned-way" doing house-work and walking/biking, yay for hippie-approaches :dance:

[Lola14]

This is hilarious/sad. I'm an average/healthy weight, but I've always had one because I'm bowlegged! Good to know that what I thought was a vaguely embarrassing physical anomaly is now tres chic.

Hello! Long time lurker, first time poster. Hopefully I'm doing this right!

The potential for the "thigh gap" to be achieved has a ton to do with basic anatomy and fat distribution. Genu varum / genu valgum (this is a real THING) refers to the amount of knock-kneed / bowlegged-ness a person has in their SKELETON. So even if your thigh circumference is relatively small, there will be no thigh gap even if you have only mild genu valgum. Not to mention the difference in tendency of where a person tends to distribute fat. All of this is basically genetic. And it just makes me sick that girls and women are striving toward this arbitrary standard that for many is basically impossible. GRRRRRR.

[Spider Burps]

I believe it's the opposite. During times when there is scarcity a heavy body will be more attractive because it has stored fat that can be used in the future. It also implies that the person gets enough to eat therefore is secure.

Thanks! Do you remember where you learned that? It's driving me crazy that I can't find anything on Google! I'm starting to wonder if it was something I heard in school at some point?

[apple1]

... Especially since this PE consisted of games that often allowed the strong to pick on the weak...

Nailed it. Especially since I was one of the "weak". It's still nightmarish, and I'm OLD.

[apple1]

... Basketball, volleyball, tennis, golf, running around, rugby, touch football, catch, kickball, swimming, playing any type of game at all that has you move.

...

Basically all the "team" sports as played in PE classes were nothing more than ways for the strong to pick on the weak. (Yes, I have a "thing" about this).

Back when, no individual fitness activities that could be pursued for a lifetime were taught in PE. And aside from the topic of strong vs. weak, face it, organized team sports are, at the most and only for a few, part of adult life and adult fitness.

I suspect a lot of it had to do with the team sports being something that required little to nothing of the instructor (in the manner they were used).

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Couldn't agree more! Please don't misunderstand me, I love travelling in the US and I'm not one of those Europeans who thinks everything is better over here, but this is one area where the general US-approach baffles me. I always put on weight when I spend time over there and it's not that I go fast-food-crazy, it's just that somehow all natural excercise has been succesfully deleted from everyday life! No one (yes, yes, generalizing here) uses bikes as means of transport, no one walks anywhere and in a lot of places you could'nt even if you wanted too for lack of side-walks, escalators has replaced stairs and machines has taken over lawn-moving, kneading of dough, dish-washing and all those little things, that actually can make a big difference in your overall health.

I'm really carefull about how many machines I let into my life, as I'm not to big on excercise I prefer to get it the "old-fahsioned-way" doing house-work and walking/biking, yay for hippie-approaches :dance:

Living in the US without a driver's license, I'm with ya. So many places are simply terrible for pedestrians - no sidewalks, or perhaps each business was forced to put a sidewalk around the edge of their acres of parking but they don't meet up, sidewalk just stops mid-block, you name it.

Thankfully I live in the older part of town close to things, I walk and bike everywhere. But then I hear about a road project building a bridge over the Interstate, and the planners don't want to bother with "fanciness" like putting a SIDEWALK along it, never mind make it wide enough for a proper bike lane. Of course we'll ride in the road, but things are friendlier with a wider right lane, even if not marked.

It seems to me that so many people equate "fitness" with going to the gym for hours every week. But I think for overall public fitness in grand numbers (not about individuals) it has to do with making the average life of a not-particularly motivated person (ordinary office workers and the like) healthier, involving more exercise, less eating, and better eating, in ways people wouldn't even be bothered by and would probably even enjoy. Even in the US there are clear patterns of overall health numbers correlating with how the environment enables people to walk more. Even just walking to the subway, matters.

But that means radically changing the town planning patterns of the past few decades, and it seems most public policy planners would rather just harangue people for not all being super-enthusiastic gym rats. Drive to the gym, it's out there in the sprawl with no sidewalks next to the mega Wal-Mart!

[salex]

But then I hear about a road project building a bridge over the Interstate, and the planners don't want to bother with "fanciness" like putting a SIDEWALK along it, never mind make it wide enough for a proper bike lane. Of course we'll ride in the road, but things are friendlier with a wider right lane, even if not marked.

On so many roads in our ourter edge of the suburbs area, it is very dangerous for bikers to ride on the heavily traveled, no shoulder 2 lane black tops that remain from when it was mostly exurban and rural. But, my county has been very good when it widens roads to build two things on either side of the road. A sidewalk on one side, normal sidewalk size, and a trail/bikepath/path about 2-3 times as wide as a regular sidewalk, often blacktopped, as a bike trail alongside the new roads.

It makes biking safer than mixing bikes and cars in busy traffic, and is used by bikes, joggers, strollers, etc. While it is not yet universal, the new build areas all have it... we will see if that trend continues under slashed budgets.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Living in the US without a driver's license, I'm with ya. So many places are simply terrible for pedestrians - no sidewalks, or perhaps each business was forced to put a sidewalk around the edge of their acres of parking but they don't meet up, sidewalk just stops mid-block, you name it.

Thankfully I live in the older part of town close to things, I walk and bike everywhere. But then I hear about a road project building a bridge over the Interstate, and the planners don't want to bother with "fanciness" like putting a SIDEWALK along it, never mind make it wide enough for a proper bike lane. Of course we'll ride in the road, but things are friendlier with a wider right lane, even if not marked.

It seems to me that so many people equate "fitness" with going to the gym for hours every week. But I think for overall public fitness in grand numbers (not about individuals) it has to do with making the average life of a not-particularly motivated person (ordinary office workers and the like) healthier, involving more exercise, less eating, and better eating, in ways people wouldn't even be bothered by and would probably even enjoy. Even in the US there are clear patterns of overall health numbers correlating with how the environment enables people to walk more. Even just walking to the subway, matters.

But that means radically changing the town planning patterns of the past few decades, and it seems most public policy planners would rather just harangue people for not all being super-enthusiastic gym rats. Drive to the gym, it's out there in the sprawl with no sidewalks next to the mega Wal-Mart!

There's a reason that people in some urban areas tend to be slimmer than the American average.

When I lived in downtown Toronto, I thought that I wasn't exercising because I was often too busy to get to the gym. Even without the gym, though, I was still pretty active in ways that I didn't even realize until I moved to the burbs. Driving was a pain, so I walked to the daycare, then to my office, then to court, then back to the daycare, and then home. Add it up, and that's an hour of walking each day. I only got in the car to visit parents or do the grocery shopping. A year after baby #1, I was 10 lbs below my pre-pregnancy weight.

When baby #2 came along, we moved to a new subdivision in the burbs. Since we were one of the first houses built, the entire area was one big mud puddle - the roads weren't paved, the sidewalks weren't built, the plazas weren't there yet and we didn't have grass. It was mud, mud and more mud. There was no walking - we drove everywhere, and I discovered that drive-thrus are really convenient when you have sleeping kids in a car. My weight edged up, and still hasn't come down.

[jaynie]

Couldn't agree more! Please don't misunderstand me, I love travelling in the US and I'm not one of those Europeans who thinks everything is better over here, but this is one area where the general US-approach baffles me. I always put on weight when I spend time over there and it's not that I go fast-food-crazy, it's just that somehow all natural excercise has been succesfully deleted from everyday life! No one (yes, yes, generalizing here) uses bikes as means of transport, no one walks anywhere and in a lot of places you could'nt even if you wanted too for lack of side-walks, escalators has replaced stairs and machines has taken over lawn-moving, kneading of dough, dish-washing and all those little things, that actually can make a big difference in your overall health.

I'm really carefull about how many machines I let into my life, as I'm not to big on excercise I prefer to get it the "old-fahsioned-way" doing house-work and walking/biking, yay for hippie-approaches :dance:

Being a Canadian who has lived for a few months in Denmark, I'd agree with this as well. I was so in shape just from short little cycles to school and walking most places. I was constantly amazed by the extensive bike lanes (out into the country in places!). In other places in Europe I'd take the stairs when using the underground/metro/whatever. You don't really have to make a conscious effort to be active -- it's just a normal part of every day. This was great for me because I hate team sports and feel far too self conscious to join a gym.

WHEREAS where I grew up in Canada, it takes about 30-40 minutes to walk to the nearest grocery store from my house. If you want to be active you generally have to drive yourself to a gym/sports field. You can't really say "well I think I'll just bike to school" because it's an hour long cycle. Where I live now, things are a bit more accessible, but there are no sidewalks in a lot of places and drivers do not like cyclists very much (every cyclist I know has been in an accident). Part of the reluctance to walk/cycle places is probably the weather, but I think a lot of it is suburban sprawl. Things are too far apart to make physical activity a normal way of getting from place to place.

[argypargy]

Couldn't agree more! Please don't misunderstand me, I love travelling in the US and I'm not one of those Europeans who thinks everything is better over here, but this is one area where the general US-approach baffles me. I always put on weight when I spend time over there and it's not that I go fast-food-crazy, it's just that somehow all natural excercise has been succesfully deleted from everyday life! No one (yes, yes, generalizing here) uses bikes as means of transport, no one walks anywhere and in a lot of places you could'nt even if you wanted too for lack of side-walks, escalators has replaced stairs and machines has taken over lawn-moving, kneading of dough, dish-washing and all those little things, that actually can make a big difference in your overall health.

I'm really carefull about how many machines I let into my life, as I'm not to big on excercise I prefer to get it the "old-fahsioned-way" doing house-work and walking/biking, yay for hippie-approaches :dance:

I wouldn't say "no one". Come to Fort Collins, CO or Boulder. You will see plenty of people biking to work and walking/running. Even on below freezing days in the snow and ice.

I do agree, though, that it's not an ingrained thing here like it is in Europe. Things are a lot more spread out here, whereas a lot of European cities were built upon the premise that the main mode of transport would be walking/riding/etc.

[Cannelle]

Despite this I still feel like I have fat thighs. I know we talk about there not being standards etc for looks but I can't help subsribing to them. Do others also feel like this?

I have a thigh gap and I still look in the mirror and think my thighs are fat! :lol: I don't mind everything else on my body, but I have never, ever liked my thighs. So yeah, you're not alone. :)

I agree with everyone else about how the US just isn't set up to promote exercise. There are very few sidewalks in my town. I walk a lot, but I do it in residential areas with low traffic (and it's walking for the purpose of exercising, not because I need to get anywhere. You really can't do that in my town). There was a website floating around a while ago where you could plug in an address and it would map it out and rate the walkability of your town. Mine got 17%. :( There are no sidewalks along the main road, almost no sidewalks along the side streets, and people drive like assholes. Even in Nashville, my husband got hit when he was on his bike, ON THE FREAKING SIDEWALK. :o (He was okay, but WTF, NASHVILLE???) I would LOVE to have the opportunity to bike/walk places- I did it when we lived in my hometown (rated 87% for walkability) and I miss it a lot.

[argypargy]

I have a thigh gap and I still look in the mirror and think my thighs are fat! :lol: I don't mind everything else on my body, but I have never, ever liked my thighs. So yeah, you're not alone. :)

I agree with everyone else about how the US just isn't set up to promote exercise. There are very few sidewalks in my town. I walk a lot, but I do it in residential areas with low traffic (and it's walking for the purpose of exercising, not because I need to get anywhere. You really can't do that in my town). There was a website floating around a while ago where you could plug in an address and it would map it out and rate the walkability of your town. Mine got 17%. :( There are no sidewalks along the main road, almost no sidewalks along the side streets, and people drive like assholes. Even in Nashville, my husband got hit when he was on his bike, ON THE FREAKING SIDEWALK. :o (He was okay, but WTF, NASHVILLE???) I would LOVE to have the opportunity to bike/walk places- I did it when we lived in my hometown (rated 87% for walkability) and I miss it a lot.

It sucks that your husband got hit, but in all fairness, your husband probably got hit because you aren't supposed to ride your bike on the sideWALK. Cars aren't looking for someone travelling that rate of speed on a sidewalk. That's why bikes are supposed to be on the road/designated bike lane. Even if there is a designated bike lane, the cyclist has every right to take the lane of traffic, too.

[Roycroft]

I've been busy for a few days and just found this thread, so my apologies for coming in late.

That said, what the ever-loving fuck?

'Thigh gap'? Who comes up with this stupid nonsense? Who has the time to sit down and actually think crap like this up, let alone inflict it on other people?

And why does it always seem to be about women's bodies? I've never heard a man moan about his lack of a 'thigh gap' in my life, or anything else so trivial and meaningless. Yes, I know men worry about baldness and the like, but there's not this undercurrent of worthlessness that there always seems to be with women's body issues, at least to me. And it always seems to come down to women having to deprive themselves of something healthy or pleasurable in order to conform to these made-up standards, like food.

The older I get, the more I think that the entire fashion and cosmetic industry is all about conning women out of their money by making them hate their bodies because they don't meet some stupid, arbitrary standard, then conveniently offering a 'remedy', at a hugely marked-up price. Then they move the goalposts and start all over again.

No, I don't have a 'thigh gap'. I'd be in deep shit health-wise if I did. I have been a competitive equestrian and fencer, and a hiker, and I could probably crack nuts with my thighs at this point. I'm not trying to put anyone down, but I'm fucking fed up with all these contrived standards for women that celebrate thinness and frailty over physical power. And I'm tired of some women allowing themselves to be distracted by meaningless shit like this instead of taking on real problems that women have world-wide, like lack of equal pay, and the pervasiveness of rape culture, and on and on. It just fucking pisses me off.

My first FJ rant is now in the books. Thanks for listening.