Focus on the Family + Duggars

[nutella addict]

Thanks Lissar, point well taken. I misunderstood I think :)

I don't really know much about FotF, but the more I read in this thread...

And for the record, I'm definitely not infallible either, and I certainly wouldn't think I was!

As for courtship/dating/Michelle/JimBob:

I don't think the current idea of courtship existed until recently either, and I think that it's based on a very skewed, minimal attempt to learn history. I Kissed Dating Goodbye was only published in 1997, apparently, and I think it was republished when I was in early high school (so maybe 9 years ago?) because I remember hearing about it as though it was new then, when I was just getting to dating age. I never did read it though :-p I think Jim Bob believes that his horniness for a pretty little sophomore was a sign from God that he was to be her spiritual leader...especially in bed. That said, I can't snark on them for being together from a young age, as my boyfriend and I started dating at 16 and are getting married when I stop collecting international degrees...

I definitely don't consider my other two "boyfriend/girlfriend relationships" as being baggage though,

and can refer to them as ex-boyfriends with the maturity of all my 23 years. Maybe that's not much, but goodness I've grown up loads since I was 15....Thank God.

I think Michelle might actually be so submissive and look up to Jim Bob so much because he's been her whole world since she was 17, pretty much. IMO 19 is more mature than 17, so she may have just gone from looking up to her parents to looking up to him, a whole two years older and "wiser", and since he wanted to lead he didn't encourage her to figure out how to be independent of him. Does that make sense? It's the same emotional stunting you see in all the SAHDs.

Edit: Oh goodness, I'm a frumper lover! Imagine if I'd written this much on my dissertation instead...

[Olivia]

My mom had all of Dobson's books when I was a kid. I read parts of THE STRONG WILLED CHILD when I was nine or ten since she was always saying I was strong willed and I was curious. But the part where he takes a belt to his dog in a battle of wills because his dog won't get off the fuzzy lid on the toilet... it was so horrifying to me. Also, ridiculous.

However, I'm going to give Dobson this over the Pearls: he said if you enjoy punishing your child, if you're harsh with him or her, etc. then you shouldn't spank. While I don't agree with his methods, and I realize some people consider any spanking to be abusive, I do think since he was trying to avoid being in any way involved in parents' justifying abuse. But the way he raised his own kids is borderline, IMO.

[SweetTexasCrude]

With regards to fotf, eh. If anybody is surprised that they are far right politically and conservative Christian, well, I'm surprised. But they are not hyper patriarchal, nor QF by any stretch--not like Gothard or the Maxwell's or others usually mentioned here. They speak to a broad spectrum of evangelicalism and have had guests along that same broad spectrum.

I think they've become more patriarchal/QF in the past decade. I've read Boundless since inception and for a long time the articles covered things like maintaining your faith in college, building strong relationships with your parents, finding a good church, etc. A broad spectrum then, but in the past three-ish years they've shifted to all marriage, all the time. And not just marriage, quick Christian marriage followed by lots of kids. They've advised girls not to pursue college since they just want to be SAHMs. The packaging may be a little more mainstream than Gothard's but what's underneath is the same.

[xDreamerx]

If this were completely true then commercial advertising wouldn't exist.

The Great Commission.

Advertising is much more complex and sophisticated than peer pressure, I don't think it's a fair comparison. The idea that you could see or hear something in the media that could entirely change your character or being for the worse is just absurd and insane. The entire mentality disregards the human mind or human will. It's ridiculous. I am capable of making choices for myself by weighing the pros and cons and predicting the consequences of a certain course. It's very basic reasoning that most people can do.

I know about the Great Commission. That doesn't make it right. The entire premise of Evangelism supposes that your religion is superior and will "deliver" people and thus needs to be spread. And how do you know this? Because the Bible and/or religious people told you so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so. It's completely circular reasoning. Not to mention entirely arrogant and asinine. People are capable of deciding to seek Christianity if they want to.

[O Latin]

Advertising is much more complex and sophisticated than peer pressure, I don't think it's a fair comparison. The idea that you could see or hear something in the media that could entirely change your character or being for the worse is just absurd and insane. The entire mentality disregards the human mind or human will. It's ridiculous. I am capable of making choices for myself by weighing the pros and cons and predicting the consequences of a certain course. It's very basic reasoning that most people can do.

I know about the Great Commission. That doesn't make it right. The entire premise of Evangelism supposes that your religion is superior and will "deliver" people and thus needs to be spread. And how do you know this? Because the Bible and/or religious people told you so and the Bible is true because the Bible says so. It's completely circular reasoning. Not to mention entirely arrogant and asinine. People are capable of deciding to seek Christianity if they want to.

I think part of the problem with the Great Commission is that it came from a time when Christianity was very new and there were probably many people who really didn't know it even existed. I think the original purpose was more to just let everybody know the choice was there. But now, as you say, virtually everybody knows that Christianity exists and can decide to puruse it if they want to. So I think the problem is not so much the Great Commission itself, but the fact that evangelicals still believe it's necessary in 21st century America.

[xDreamerx]

I think part of the problem with the Great Commission is that it came from a time when Christianity was very new and there were probably many people who really didn't know it even existed. I think the original purpose was more to just let everybody know the choice was there. But now, as you say, virtually everybody knows that Christianity exists and can decide to puruse it if they want to. So I think the problem is not so much the Great Commission itself, but the fact that evangelicals still believe it's necessary in 21st century America.

Exactly.