Is Jesus That Difficult For Christians To Follow?

[debrand]

I'm not a Christian but I've read all four gospels. Modern American Evangelicals don't seem to have much in common with the founder of their religion. Jesus said to help the poor. It was so important that he said that after death, he would not recognize anyone who hadn't fed and clothed the poor. He also instructed his followers to not judge others but to concentrate on improving their own faults. Not to mention that he did not approve of public prayer or ostentatious religious displays. However, he was fine with a good party that had good food and alcohol.

His commands don't seem that difficult to uphold. Yet, I know a lot of right wing Christians and evangelicals who blame the poor for being poor and are quick to judge others. Is there a reason for this? Is it that hard to just be nice to other people without feeling superior to them?

edited to add: And let's don't forget, 'turning the cheek' or "praying for those who hurt you"

[Wandering]

A quote I saw on the "Being Liberal" Facebook page comes to mind-"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice that it always coincides with their own desires"~Susan B. Anthony.

Btw: After leaving the Christian right I've found that being a Christian on the left is a lot easier in regards to actually following Jesus. You know the important parts of his teachings: helping out the poor, accepting people from all walks of life, etc.

[debrand]

A quote I saw on the "Being Liberal" Facebook page comes to mind-"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice that it always coincides with their own desires"~Susan B. Anthony.

Btw: After leaving the Christian right I've found that being a Christian on the left is a lot easier in regards to actually following Jesus. You know the important parts of his teachings: helping out the poor, accepting people from all walks of life, etc.

I saw that quote on the Being Liberal Facebook page too. I connect to them because I need relief from all my crazy, right wing family's Facebook quotes.

[Jinger Jar]

Yet, I know a lot of right wing Christians and evangelicals who blame the poor for being poor and are quick to judge others. Is there a reason for this?

I think one reason is Prosperity Theology. Oral Roberts was, I believe, a big backer of PT. It's partially based on an interpretation of 1 John:

2 Dearly beloved, concerning all things I make it my prayer that thou mayest proceed prosperously, and fare well as thy soul doth prosperously. 3 I was exceedingly glad when the brethren came and gave testimony to the truth in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth. 4 I have no greater grace than this, to hear that my children walk in truth.

Basically, if you trust God enough, he will bestow wealth upon you. If you buy into that, it's easy to look down on poor people because they just don't love God enough, dontchaknow.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think the fundies would complain about Jesus if he was around nowadays-he helps the poor, never judged anyone, hung around with sinners, didnt keep sweet, and drank alcohol.

[debrand]

I think the fundies would complain about Jesus if he was around nowadays-he helps the poor, never judged anyone, hung around with sinners, didnt keep sweet, and drank alcohol.

He told people to pay their taxes and one of his apostles, John, claimed that Jesus loved him most.

[AnnieC 305]

I think Fred Clark made a good point about it.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivis ... atriarchy/

Here we have identical gender hierarchies set up with identical approaches to two very different sacred texts. The patriarchal boy Christians and the patriarchal boy Muslims have both selectively gleaned what they needed or wanted from their respective scriptures, and their parallel projects reveal that whatever scripture happens to be the one being mined isn’t really important.

The true religion for PBCs and for their Muslim counterparts is patriarchy itself. Given the choice between patriarchy and the Bible or between patriarchy and the Koran, these boys will choose patriarchy every time.

In other words, their purported allegiance to Christianity or to Islam is just a pretext, not a cause. It is secondary at most, and barely even that. The PBCs and the patriarchal Muslims share the same core religion, and it is neither Christianity nor Islam.

Think of this patriarchal religion like Q, the hypothetical lost Gospel source whose existence we can deduce from studying the Synoptic Gospels.

The first three books of the New Testament — Matthew, Mark and Luke — share a bunch of parallel passages. We’re pretty sure that Mark was written first, and that it was later used as source material by the authors of Matthew and Luke in putting together their later, longer accounts.

That’s easy to see from reading all three books. Chunks of Mark can be found repeated verbatim, or with very slight changes, in both Matthew and Luke.

But there are also other parallel passages in Matthew and Luke that do not come from Mark. That might mean that Matthew copied them from Luke or that Luke copied them from Matthew, but that isn’t what scholars who have closely studied the earliest manuscripts think. They think instead that Matthew and Luke were also both using some other common source — “Q†— which they both drew on in the same way they both drew on Mark’s Gospel.

We have Mark, but we don’t have Q. All we know of it is what we can infer from those identical passages appearing in Matthew and Luke.

So think of patriarchal religion as being like Q. We can’t study it directly because its devotees all pretend they’re actually adherents of some other religion. They pretend to be Christians or they pretend to be Muslims, but really their main allegiance lies with this hidden religion of patriarchy.

[Dark Matters]

I'm not a Christian but I've read all four gospels. Modern American Evangelicals don't seem to have much in common with the founder of their religion. Jesus said to help the poor. It was so important that he said that after death, he would not recognize anyone who hadn't fed and clothed the poor. He also instructed his followers to not judge others but to concentrate on improving their own faults. Not to mention that he did not approve of public prayer or ostentatious religious displays. However, he was fine with a good party that had good food and alcohol.

His commands don't seem that difficult to uphold. Yet, I know a lot of right wing Christians and evangelicals who blame the poor for being poor and are quick to judge others. Is there a reason for this? Is it that hard to just be nice to other people without feeling superior to them?

edited to add: And let's don't forget, 'turning the cheek' or "praying for those who hurt you"

Reading comprehension is not their strong suit.

[Arete]

Personally, I have found that a lot of American Evangelicals worship money and follow the teachings of Ayn Rand as opposed to worshipping God and following the teachings of Jesus.

The also never state the quote from Jesus that tells people they have no business bringing sacrifices to the Temple if they have hurt their brother and left the relationship unrepaired. They get it ass-backwards. Always in church and screw their brother.

[Anxious Girl]

Jesus also was friends with a prostitute :o and according to The Da Vinci Code, his lover! He also turned water into wine for his mother's friend's wedding. Suck on that, J'Boob, J'Chelle and Joshie!

[Vex]

ZsuZsu wrote an impassioned defense of judging others in her blog. They just pick and choose what gospel they follow even though they claim that they take the bible literally. And they DO help others - as long as they're other fundies.

All that 'be a light' stuff in the bible is water under the bridge to them. Jesus must be head-desking in his grave.

[patsymae]

"I think one reason is Prosperity Theology. Oral Roberts was, I believe, a big backer of PT. It's partially based on an interpretation of 1 John: ..."

Absolutely, but it's a lot older than that. Dates back to the Reformation and the idea that God materially rewards people for being "good." Before that it was the Catholic idea that you pretty much have to live with whatever station god chose to put you in. Which of course has a host of its own problems, but doesn't carry with it any hint of a belief that the poor, sick, or otherwise suffering are in that condition because they are spiritually inferior.

[pixydust]

Honestly, I personally only know one Christian, someone who follows Jesus' teachings.....I know a ton of "Paulians", people who follow Paul's teachings. It's not fun to give to the poor and forgive people (it is fun to drink wine, but I digress), judging people and feeling superior to everyone else? That seems to fit in better for a lot of people!

[formergothardite]

Many Christians love their money, possessions, self and guns more than Jesus. Jesus was all about being nice to people who aren't nice to you, turning the other cheek, and putting others before yourself. Doing those things isn't fun or that enjoyable, so they just ignore them.

[MamaJunebug]

"I think one reason is Prosperity Theology. Oral Roberts was, I believe, a big backer of PT. It's partially based on an interpretation of 1 John: ..."

Absolutely, but it's a lot older than that. Dates back to the Reformation and the idea that God materially rewards people for being "good." Before that it was the Catholic idea that you pretty much have to live with whatever station god chose to put you in. Which of course has a host of its own problems, but doesn't carry with it any hint of a belief that the poor, sick, or otherwise suffering are in that condition because they are spiritually inferior.

I've never heard of the bolded part, and I've been a student of Luther's reformation (not Calvin's et.al.) my whole life. Traditional Lutheran theology as I know it is at direct odds with prosperity/self-glory promises; if anything, "life's not fair" is one of our mantras ... well, would be if we had mantras.

Can you tell me some more about where it's written that the reformation ... paved the way for Joel Osteen & his sorry lot? :? I'm srsly interested in see how folks make that conclusion. TIA!

[docmom]

Honestly, I personally only know one Christian, someone who follows Jesus' teachings.....I know a ton of "Paulians", people who follow Paul's teachings. It's not fun to give to the poor and forgive people (it is fun to drink wine, but I digress), judging people and feeling superior to everyone else? That seems to fit in better for a lot of people!

I know two true Christians- both are women and only one is actually Christian, but both have given up their posessions and families to help the poor whom they actually live among. They are completely non-judgmental and really fun to be around. They are as different from the Paulians as it is possible to be.

BTW- it is generally agreed amongst scholars (and this goes back decades to my college NT course) that Paul's letters to Timothy and Titus were not actually written by Paul at all. I find it amusing that much of the patriarchal shit spouted by the fundies is based on these letters. Ref: Ehrman, Bart. The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings. Oxford University Press. 2003. p. 393

[patsymae]

"I've never heard of the bolded part, and I've been a student of Luther's reformation (not Calvin's et.al.) my whole life. Traditional Lutheran theology as I know it is at direct odds with prosperity/self-glory promises; if anything, "life's not fair" is one of our mantras ... well, would be if we had mantras.

Can you tell me some more about where it's written that the reformation ... paved the way for Joel Osteen & his sorry lot? :? I'm srsly interested in see how folks make that conclusion. TIA!"

Well, you caught me. I was thinking of Calvinism, and Weber's analysis also. Should have been more specific. Unlike you, I haven't been a student of any part of the Reformation my whole life, so I'll just leave it at that.

[Katiebug]

Yeah, I've been Lutheran all my life and have never encountered anything resembling the prosperity gospel. I'm pretty glad that my religious life/experience appears to be wildly different from that of the fundies/fundie lites.

[Aisling]

Nope, the fundie-lites in my family are obsessed with money, cars, designer clothes. They are so, so superficial. But yet in their church they are the model family. they are, of course, incredibly self righteous and trot out whatever verse they wish to justify their actions.

The best Christians I have met don't shove it in your face. You notice their actions before they even try to tell you the words

[shesinsane]

At some point in the history of mankind, someone discovered/invented God(s) - that there's something we can't sense that has more power over us and our world than we have over ourselves. And right after this happened, someone else decided to use God(s) to justify their behavior and it has never stopped.

[Burris]

That's a continued source of frustration to me as well:

Fred Clark has discussed this at length. Here's another essay by Simon Cozens:

Christianity vs. American Christianity

My posts on why Zsuzsanna is wrong spell this out plainly as well:

Part 1

Part 2

It also sucks when tainted religion gets tangled up with tainted politics.

Some US Christians are also obsessed with persecution, hoping to suffer it to prove some kind of point.

And then, of course, there's naked, cruel greed being flaunted as a virtue.

Christianity is a lot easier to "do" when one tries to follow the Golden Rule - or, failing that, at least the inverse: "That which is hateful to you, do not do to others."

If I were in need of bread, the last thing I'd want is some professional complainer - a judgmental gatekeeper who gabbles about others during 'prayer meetings' - to determine whether I deserve to be treated well or poorly merely because I asked for help in a society heavy with wealth.

[debrand]

That's a continued source of frustration to me as well:

Fred Clark has discussed this at length. Here's another essay by Simon Cozens:

Christianity vs. American Christianity

My posts on why Zsuzsanna is wrong spell this out plainly as well:

Part 1

Part 2

It also sucks when tainted religion gets tangled up with tainted politics.

Some US Christians are also obsessed with persecution, hoping to suffer it to prove some kind of point.

And then, of course, there's naked, cruel greed being flaunted as a virtue.

Christianity is a lot easier to "do" when one tries to follow the Golden Rule - or, failing that, at least the inverse: "That which is hateful to you, do not do to others."

If I were in need of bread, the last thing I'd want is some professional complainer - a judgmental gatekeeper who gabbles about others during 'prayer meetings' - to determine whether I deserve to be treated well or poorly merely because I asked for help in a society heavy with wealth.

From one of the links:

The situation only makes sense if you consider a separate entity called “American Christianity†which is an entirely separate religion to Christianity. Not a branch of Christianity, not a form of Christianity, but something with absolutely no connection to Christianity at all. It’s a separate religion. And what is the goal of this religion?

Sometimes I find myself strangely offended for Christianity by the way the religion's own followers practice it. I know that sounds odd. Anyone who reads my posts knows that I am not religious but the New Testament figure of Jesus did teach some very good things about helping others and being kind. If you are going to follow Christ, why not actually follow what he taught?

It makes me wonder if there isn't something in the human nature that makes us want to justify being obnoxious and judgmental.

[Burris]

From one of the links:

Sometimes I find myself strangely offended for Christianity by the way the religion's own followers practice it. I know that sounds odd. Anyone who reads my posts knows that I am not religious but the New Testament figure of Jesus did teach some very good things about helping others and being kind. If you are going to follow Christ, why not actually follow what he taught?

It makes me wonder if there isn't something in the human nature that makes us want to justify being obnoxious and judgmental.

I think there probably is something in human nature where people get satisfaction from 'winning' - from beating someone else in an argument or in a fist fight or in a contest of possessions.

The religious dictates are meant to address and control those urges.

Alas, not all people are close readers.

[Wandering]

I really enjoyed reading your posts Burris, they were very informative!

[TyleredOne]

The best Christians I have met don't shove it in your face. You notice their actions before they even try to tell you the words

This is how I was brought up. I didn't have to worry that I was too shy to "witness" to others, they would see my actions and attitude and ask me what I had in my life that made me happy/ generous / caring, etc. and THAT would be my opening to share my personal relationship with Christ. Never happened, btw. :roll: