Women in "traditional men's work"? This blogger says no.

[ceg045]

Ran across this blogger being discussed on GOMI.

She doesn't seem to be particularly fundie, but the post is nonsensical enough that it was begging for some FJ commentary:

fabulouslybroke.com/2012/11/should-women-work-in-male-dominated-professions/

[Childless]

I work in a traditionally male dominated profession. The work is not physically demanding or dirty. I do work with mostly men, have my whole life, and it really doesn't bother me at all. We're all so damn busy doing the jobs of two people (you've got to love corporate cut backs), we don't really have time to chat anyway. My STEM job has allowed my husband to quit his job and go back to college. That will in turn make my son's life better. Two degreed parents are better than one. I would encourage women to go into whatever profession they find interesting and have an aptitude for regardless of who else happens to be in that profession. The gender of your co-workers should never be a deciding factor in your career path.

[Carla Bruni]

I work in a company where I'm literally the only female employee, and I love it - I love what I do, I love the people I work with, and I'm treated exceptionally well. My problem with that post is that the reasons she gives are downright stupid.

Personally, I’m not super eager to chip my finger nails, sweat out my hairdo, or catch offensive odors in my hair and pores during a standard day’s work.

... This is such bullshit, and it paints such a stupid picture of a frou-frou permed Barbie doll in a bubble gum pink poofy dress, whistling away to the radio while doing her nails at work. This also rules out pretty much any job in the medical field, teaching kindergarten, landscape design, etc, etc. I work with refugee camps where dysentery is the norm - I don't do anything medical, but I still didn't smell particularly good when I last left. Why on earth should that matter?

If you work with a bunch of guys, more likely than not, office chitchat will surround topics guys care about.

Sorry, I must have missed that part in high school career counseling where office chitchat topics were supposed to dictate our career choices :| Our office chitchat topics: a) work; b) people we know through work; c) other people we know through work; d) politics; e) helping our single colleague find a girlfriend; f) figuring out why NIN is blaring out of our boss' office.

People who make broad sweeping generalizations like that are dumb. :shifty:

[emmiedahl]

She ignores the fact that most STEM field jobs are not particularly physically demanding, dirty, or masculine.

[Minerva]

The blog's URL is "fabulously broke". The fact that she is unwilling to put out any physical effort, chip her nails, get dirty, smell bad smells, or listen in on conversations she finds boring could have something to do with that. I'm just saying.

It’s impossible for a man to carry and conceive a child. And no one argues otherwise.

False. Many men have been pregnant and given birth. Thomas Beatie comes to mind.

Honestly, this woman's an idiot. I think a few of my brain cells committed suicide as I read that drivel. She's one of the many unfortunate people who confuse preference with opinion.

I look forward to a STEM career. And maybe it's a regional thing, but most of the STEM environments I've been exposed to aren't overrun with men. Even engineering isn't bad, and a fucking lot of male domains are now overrun with women. Even my domain, which I was told was male dominated, has a pretty even gender distribution.

[Katiebug]

10 years ago, when I was in my senior year of an engineering program at our flagship state university, I was the only woman in a graduating class of 30. Today not only is the class size roughly double what it was, but 1/4-1/3 of the graduating students are female.

As a mechanical/materials engineer I'm outnumbered by men in the workplace and significantly so in my industry. My particular job does occasionally require me to get my hands dirty, ranging from slogging weight carts around or fixing a piece of test equipment to the more mundane/routine materials characterization work in the lab. I spend a hefty amount of time stuck in meetings, answering emails, and working on my computer, too! You can work in this field and sit at a computer for your entire career or you can have a very hands-on job, and it really comes down to personal choice - especially after one has been working for a few years and is established.

Working in a STEM field has enabled me to help my husband support our family, to own a home, to have relatively little debt, and to have children. My employer has paid for me to get two master's degrees. Early in our marriage my ability to be primary breadwinner enabled my husband to go back to finish his own degree and to earn more money himself as a result. We're not rich, but we also don't live paycheck to paycheck. We're very fortunate and I'm glad that I pushed myself in college to have a career where I know I'll always be able to take care of our kids, even if something happened to my husband.

[tadpole]

Interesting. Right at this moment I am working as a yardman. I get up in the morning and put on my steel toed boots and work hard enough to come home as filthy as any of my male coworkers. And I don't slow anyone down. Despite my petite size and my gender, I am asset to the company.

At break time, the guys talk about the same things the girls in the office do - problems with their kids, the price of groceries, politics and the weather. They only really talk about sports in relation to their kids. About the only difference is that the guys say "fuck" about 10% more often. The work is physically demanding, but my body doesn't hurt as much as it does after hours on the computer. An a little bit of soap in the shower takes care of the bad smell thing. The main difference - working with the guys is more fun. Poor princess.

[dairyfreelife]

Yea, I can't even with this woman. Any logical argument against her post she shoots down as being over-sensitive, wrong and stupid. What an ass. It's flat out sexist and she does not get it. So what if women have babies? Yes, some jobs require long hours, but there's not one reason this applies to women only. If men work long hours, they too have less time with their family. Why should men be forced to do all the high stress jobs? Even it out. Sexism hurts men too. The amount of stress it puts on one person to be the sole provider and have to work so much and so long because those are jobs men are "supposed" to do is not any better than forcing a woman to stay home with her baby and be a teacher or secretary when she it stresses her out and she wants more of a challenging job. (Not that teachers or nurses don't have challenges, but it's different than engineer and science challenges). The best thing for life and society is to do away with gender roles and for people to do what is best for them and for their family regardless of the gender doing what job.

[FeministShrew]

I've only had one job that might be considered "woman's work " (besides being a SAHM) - clerk in a drycleaner's. It was my first job, & I hated it.

Since then I've worked on a landscaping/lawn maintenance crew, built cabinets with my dad, built shipping crates for Kohler jacuzzi tubs, and now I'm a civil designer. The only other women in my building are the 2 office managers for the firm downstairs. I loved all of those jobs, and yes, I got pretty dirty in some of them.

[mockingbird]

Loved this in the comments: "Even if I didn't have much to talk about with my male coworkers, it wouldn't cause me to hate my job. I go to work to stimulate my brain and make money, not to hang out with friends. That's something I do in my off hours because I'm a professional." Gee, liking your job because of the work you do, and actually DOING YOUR JOB? Who thought of that?

I'm going into medicine, which was traditionally male-dominated, but I think the national med student ratio is now hovering around 50-60% female. I'm doing it because (GASP) I am interested in the profession! It's really demeaning that she clearly thinks women can only be interested in a job for superficial reasons and not actual interest in the field itself, like the commenter I quoted pointed out. Yeah, I might worry a little about my clothes smelling after anatomy lab (it didn't end up being that bad) or someday having a patient throw up on me, but I'm a big girl and I can handle it.

I have never done a job requiring physical labor, but I can't lift much and have a lot of bone issues that cause me to be more susceptible to injury. If I was a man, I wouldn't be able to do those types of jobs either.

ETA: FWIW I bite my nails so I don't ever worry about chipping them... but I have done "messy" crafts and worked as a camp counselor with long nails without ruining them so I have to say I think she is just being prissy. Also, I'm pretty sure I won't be allowed to have long nails anyway because they don't want you to scratch a patient.

[Minerva]

Loved this in the comments: "Even if I didn't have much to talk about with my male coworkers, it wouldn't cause me to hate my job. I go to work to stimulate my brain and make money, not to hang out with friends. That's something I do in my off hours because I'm a professional." Gee, liking your job because of the work you do, and actually DOING YOUR JOB? Who thought of that?

I'm going into medicine, which was traditionally male-dominated, but I think the national med student ratio is now hovering around 50-60% female. I'm doing it because (GASP) I am interested in the profession! It's really demeaning that she clearly thinks women can only be interested in a job for superficial reasons and not actual interest in the field itself, like the commenter I quoted pointed out. Yeah, I might worry a little about my clothes smelling after anatomy lab (it didn't end up being that bad) or someday having a patient throw up on me, but I'm a big girl and I can handle it.

I have never done a job requiring physical labor, but I can't lift much and have a lot of bone issues that cause me to be more susceptible to injury. If I was a man, I wouldn't be able to do those types of jobs either.

ETA: FWIW I bite my nails so I don't ever worry about chipping them... but I have done "messy" crafts and worked as a camp counselor with long nails without ruining them so I have to say I think she is just being prissy. Also, I'm pretty sure I won't be allowed to have long nails anyway because they don't want you to scratch a patient.

She's vapid and flaky, and she attributes it to her gender instead of just attributing it to...well to the fact that she's vapid and flaky.

And mockingbird you're clearly lying about getting your hands messy at camp, because camp counsellor i.e. child care is a traditionally female profession and it is therefore impossible to get messy doing it.

[YPestis]

A few notes from the link's post:

1. There are female professions which are dirty and physical. Nursing comes to mind immediately. What's more dirty than wiping people's butts or cleaning up vomit? Nurses are on their feet all day. Sure, the actual physicality of the work is not as demanding as construction but it's still very active, requiring lifting, carrying, and running.

For that matter, health care and child care are two of the most unhygienic environment to work in. And they are both heavily populated by women! Your hands will be touching all kinds of other people's bodily fluids. Yuck!

2. Not all male dominated professions are dirty and physical. Programming, surgery, finance, high-level executives, corporate lawyers. Well, ok surgery is actually quite physical but it's mostly standing and procedure intensive. Stockbrokers and VPs keep clean jobs. Programming, in terms of physical requirements, is on the same level as secretaries and again, very clean.

3. I'm not sure how to approach the line about men talking about manly stuff in a male profession. I guess the stereotype is that men will talk about sports and boobs with no women around. But that's maybe at a friend's place. In professional settings, most men limit their conversations to the same talking points as women. I've worked in a male profession and the men chat about kids, activities, hobbies, friends...you know, the stuff that women chatter about at work. The conversation may be more male-skewing, but hardly different enough for me to run the opposite way.

I get the impression the OP is not a fundie and isn't arguing that females should stay home, but her viewpoint is filled with stereotypes which is not true for many male professions. Her attitude is unhealthy because it closes off otherwise great careers for women. Not all woman are happy or able to get into "female" dominated professions.

I agree that women should strive for top jobs because in this economy, financial consideration is a real concern for families. However, we should not pigeonhole ourselves into professions based on outdated gender roles.

[salsa]

Personally, I’m not super eager to chip my finger nails, sweat out my hairdo, or catch offensive odors in my hair and pores during a standard day’s work.

speak for yourself

I have short fingernails and don't have a hairdo other than what nature makes of it (and it's pretty, I have to admit)

eta:

She doesn't seem to be a fundy, but the same logic is there.

I'm female and I'm prissy, therefore all females are prissy. It's how God made us.

[RosyDaisy]

I'll work wherever I please and don't give a damn what other pepole think about it.

[JesusFightClub]

I used to work as a security guard. With male security guards. I didn't die.

[Cran]

I wonder if working as a Catholic theologian qualifies for "working in a traditional men's field of work", too. All those priests and stuff! Still alive, too. And no chipped nail polish or any bad smells in my clothes, unless you count incense.

[Evilbad]

The military is pretty damn male dominated. Also, you can't do pretty hairdos or fancy manicures.

She's a shallow, vapid twat.

[snarktastic]

Countries like Iran and Venezuela have shedloads of female engineers who are glammed to the max, do their jobs without chipping a long, red fingernail and most definitely do NOT smell of garbage.

[constantgardener]

I work in a job that requires me to be outside in all weathers with my hands in compost. Know how I don't chip my nail varnish? I wear gloves.

[MissA]

While this particular blogger may not be fundie, she sure seems like an example of a mindset that is really prevalent among fundie women. Specifically, a lot of them don't really like men in general. They may like their husbands/fathers/sons (sometimes) but they are *really* uncomfortable with unrelated males and therefore decide that clearly it is ordained by nature/God that men and women belong in separate spheres. The result is inevitably anti-woman but the motivation always seems really anti-man: "Well, men really can't focus on their work when exposed to female collarbones" or "Before feminism, men intrinsically knew that they had to be good and responsible providers but now that women don't absolutely require them in order to feed themselves they feel worthless and just go off screwing around all the time" or "I sometimes intentionally screw up men's work so I can make him do it."

Or in this case, "Ewwww, I don't want to hang out with those big smelly dirty boys. I might break a nail and earn a high wage! Ewww!"

[BoomerLynn]

Personally, I’m not super eager to chip my finger nails, sweat out my hairdo, or catch offensive odors in my hair and pores during a standard day’s work.

I certainly hope she never has children, then. I have done all of the above just taking care of my kids.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Hahahaha she has a lot to learn if she assumes that traditionally feminine roles are all clean and pleasant.

Babies and young children are possibly the messiest destructive things that exist. It isnt all cuddling cute tiny babies and picking out adorable little clothes.......they puke and poop and scream.

[ADoyle90815]

Hahahaha she has a lot to learn if she assumes that traditionally feminine roles are all clean and pleasant.

Babies and young children are possibly the messiest destructive things that exist. It isnt all cuddling cute tiny babies and picking out adorable little clothes.......they puke and poop and scream.

This. As mentioned, the traditionally female job of nursing isn't a clean sedentary job either. Often, nurses have to move patients, and they also deal with blood in addition to dealing with bedpans and catheters.

[jenny_islander]

If women up here worried about looking feminine and staying out of traditional men's work they'd have starved long ago. We have urban centers in Alaska, but outside them, women pick fish out of nets by hand, butcher deer (and moose and whales), chop wood, fix engines, shoot big guns at big hungry predators, haul crab pots, and sweat a lot. Inside the urban centers, women drive delivery trucks and arrest criminals and cut open sick people in order to extract cancerous tumors and get elected to the government jobs that require signing the really, really big checks.

ISTM that "traditional" women's work in "American" culture (that is, what conservatives think of when they talk about a time when ladies were ladies) was either decorative or invisible. I have never been decorative and I refuse to be invisible.