The Gospel Message with JukeboxLucky

[ILoveJellybeans]

Its certainly not something an adult should be involved in.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww someone was dared to eat four used tissues and candy that had already been chewed????? Thats disgusting! Sounds like something teenagers or drunk college students would do.

What's the supposed rationale for a church doing it? Sounds like this is "a thing?" I've never heard about it until now, but am curious...

[Guest Anonymous]

J*** P********

A.... A used tissue??? :O that was truly scarring.... Thanks a lot. ): lol

24 October at 03:02 via Mobile

Seen by 46

5 people like this.

A** W**** Yep. That was gross

24 October at 03:03 via mobile · 2

C******* B****** Hahaha I can't believe the levels of GROSS that were achieved tonight. Truly scarring and horrifying.

24 October at 04:07 · 3

[Hane]

I like how my church presents the gospel to children. (I attend a Unity church, it's a New Thought denomination.) The youth ed starts with learning about God's love and Jesus' miracles. They focus on that, and how the kids can apply that in their own lives (in simple terms, like being thankful or being kind). This is done from nursery to middle school. His crucifixion is addressed thus: he died not "for our sins" but to show us that he triumphed over death because he was one with God and so he came back. No mention is ever made of original sin or evil and graphic descriptions of him on the cross are avoided. The youth ed emphasizes practical application of one's values. It's also a safe space for the kids to ask ANY questions they have without shame or judgement.

No one ever says, "You're a horrible sinner, everything you think is wrong, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY YOU ARE SAVED." There are kids in the youth ed program (like my son) that are wondering if they believe in God or not. And that's fine. The instructors allow him to voice his opinions and the safe space to explore his own beliefs. One of the things I treasure about my church is that they value all paths to God. They never say, "You're wrong, too bad you're going to hell!" More like, "You're Jewish...Muslim...Atheist...Pagan..Catholic...Evangelical... That's great! Welcome! Hang out and stay for coffee!"

from a fellow Universalist Christian (I refer to myself as 50% of the Christian coalition at my UU church).

Having grown up Catholic, I was used to seeing scarily realistic-looking representations of Jesus on the cross, and of martyred saints, so I never really thought about its impact on kids--until my niece was about four, and I gave her a book about Easter given to me by a Lutheran friend who taught Sunday School. I didn't read it before I gave it to my niece, and she was disturbed and angered by the representation of the crucifixion. "How would those bad people like it if somebody did that to THEM? I wish I could tell them how bad they are!"

Another child, seeing the modern-art Stations of the Cross sculptures on the walls of my Catholic church, wanted to know who "all those guys on the t's" were.

[Kaylee]

What is a Foursquare church?

It's a Pentecostal church/denomination that was started by Aimee Semple McPherson (who was a really, um, interesting person).

My mother's church is Pentecostal Holiness, but traces their "roots" through them. They do have women pastors and leaders and are very into the supernatural - speaking in tongues, people falling out in the aisles, belief in literal demons, etc.

I don't know if JBL's particular church is like that, but most of the Pentecostal churches we went to were - so much that I ended up going back into IFB churches, despite previously bad experiences, because they seemed more normal/sane.

[formergothardite]

Holy shit. If that is how she teaches her youth to behave, no wonder she doesn't want to have a deep conversation about her beliefs and how they affect others. It is like she tries to keep things on the most shallow level possible. What is the point of all that?

[Guest Anonymous]

What's the supposed rationale for a church doing it? Sounds like this is "a thing?" I've never heard about it until now, but am curious...

It is a thing, we've talked about it before in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4845

I think it comes from youth pastors wanting to be "cool" and get the kids in the door, so they have activities and games. I don't know why so many of them treat kids so poorly.

Article links wherein youth pastors admit to this shit:

whyismarko.com/2010/crazy-and-stupid-youth-ministry-moments/

churchleaders.com/youth/youth-leaders-blogs/144568-week-of-stupid-youth-ministry-moments-day-1.html

worldmag.com/2002/08/stupid_church_tricks

From the last link:

Four sets of parents are suing a church in Indiana for what happened at a New Year's Eve lock-in. A youth leader chewed up a mixture of dog food, sardines, potted meat, sauerkraut, cottage cheese, and salsa, topped off with holiday eggnog. As if this spectacle were not disgusting enough (let the reader beware), he then spit out the mixture into a glass and encouraged the members of the youth group to drink it!

Some of those who did, of course, became sick, whereupon their parents sued the church. According to an Associated Press account, the youth pastor said that the "gross-out" game, called the Human Vegematic, was just for fun and that the church forced no one to participate. The lawsuit accused the adults in charge of pressuring 13- and 14-year-olds into activities that caused them physical and mental harm.

Such "gross-out" games have become a fad in youth ministry. Since adolescents are amused by bodily functions, crude behavior, and tastelessness-following the church-growth principle of giving people what they like as a way to entice them into the kingdom-many evangelical youth leaders think this is a way to reach young people.

[Maggie Mae]

What. The. Fuck.

We were sort of supervised at that age, and I do remember a few "sleep"overs where the games of Truth or Dare turned into "drink this disguising mess from the fridge" but no one ever had to chew up someone else's spit or snot. I can't believe that they are willing to do that! If anyone had actually tried it, they would have been tormented and mocked and it would have been brought up until adulthood!

We must have just been boring. The one time I went to a youth ministry we watched The Princess Bride and fell asleep in our sleeping bags.

[ILoveJellybeans]

From one of the above linked...

"Many of these involve eating and drinking gross things, like at the Indiana church. ("Toothbrush Buffet" has youth group leaders brushing their teeth and spitting into a cup. Each then passes it along to the next in line, who uses what is in the cup to brush his teeth. The last one drinks down everyone's spit.) Others are scatological, and are too repellent to describe."

I think I am actually going to vomit.

[Guest Anonymous]

Her dad's job just seems to be supporting an extended childhood for her. She is a 27 yr old attention-seeker. No wonder she cannot empathize with the children targetted by OCC. She is still extremely immature herself.

Another Yoof Drama...Rje-mN1oZqM

[StarrieEyedKat]

Oh dear lord, am I following correctly in that the person that was all "Yay, let's eat snot tissues!" is a 27-year-old woman? For christ's sake, I'm 27 and here's my message to you, crazy face - You're an adult, stop trying to be "the cool youth pastor" and start acting like it. That shit with the pencil shavings and tissues and whatever else y'all were doing, that is not safe and you should not be endorsing it. Pretty sad that my 4-year-old has more sense than you do.

ETA - I did the whole youth group overnight lock-in stuff. The craziest shenanigans we got up to involved seeing how much pizza some of the boys could eat, and playing hide and seek in the pitch black church.

[formergothardite]

After reading how many times she mentioned OCC on that page, it makes sense why she is such a rabid defender of them. I kind of want to send her a FB message and confirm it is the same person and ask her if she is planning on coming back, but I think that might be a tad creepy.

[Austin]

Let's face it: Evangelical Christians in the USA believe they have a special status that allows them to say anything to anyone in the name of religion. As a former Christian, I know this is the case. That means your child, your elderly mother, or anyone else they focus on. They say, as we have seen here, "Well, it should be your responsibility to keep that message away from your kids if you don't want them to receive it", or "Why wouldn't you just ignore it?"

But all hell would break loose if some Muslim or Jewish person went up to their kid and said, "Hey, kid, Jesus was just a prophet", or "Hey, kid, Jesus wasn't really the Messiah". Those people would be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail in a lot of parts of this country. But it's a-okay for them to do the equivalent.

They really, really just don't get it. They just care so much. :roll:

Imagine some nasty piece of work like SWL teaching your kid. That's very likely to happen if you let your kid go to Backyard Bible Clubs or Vacation Bible School or Sunday school with the neighbors or your sister-in-law.

[formergothardite]

Austin, that is exactly why I would never send my kids to any of those things. And lord, after reading that mess of a FB page, they won't be going to any youth groups either. I do not want my children learning that those sort of stupid things are not only okay, but God approved.

[debrand]

What's the supposed rationale for a church doing it? Sounds like this is "a thing?" I've never heard about it until now, but am curious...

I think that the church leaders are trying to make these events appeal to teenagers. My nieghbor's son did not like these kind of activities at their former church. He felt that there were clicks in these kind of events just like there were in school.

When I was young, it always felt patronizing to me when adults tried to 'relate' to me. I'd much rather older people just treat me like they would treat any other human. Maybe I was a weird kid but I never needed older people to like my music or dress young in order for me to like them. I certainly didn't need to eat anything gross or have an adult encourage me to do so.

[Turtle]

From one of the above linked...

"Many of these involve eating and drinking gross things, like at the Indiana church. ("Toothbrush Buffet" has youth group leaders brushing their teeth and spitting into a cup. Each then passes it along to the next in line, who uses what is in the cup to brush his teeth. The last one drinks down everyone's spit.) Others are scatological, and are too repellent to describe."

I think I am actually going to vomit.

Ugh. Terrible flashbacks of youth group events in jr. high. So disgusting and weird. And then, after some gross stunt to get everyone hyper, they would make everyone sing songs, starting with cutesy ones and then emotional-y ones where you were supposed to wave your hands around and cry.

I remember being insecure and wanting to fit in so badly with the popular kids that the youth minister always hung out with. But there was no way I was going to drink toothpaste spit or swallow a goldfish.

[Guest Anonymous]

It sounds like the Summit Adventure Church is more generally a showy 'relevant' church.

According to the website, it is compulsory for everyone who wants to be baptised, to produce an X Factor style VT to be shown before the immersion.

We believe that baptism is an important step

of obedience for every person who has accepted Christ as his or her Savior.

...

If you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, then you are ready to be baptized.

Just like a bride and groom show others their love for one another by wearing wedding bands,

your baptism is your opportunity to show others that you have accepted Christ and are now

walking with Him.

...

One of the most powerful aspects of baptism at The Summit is the video testimony shown right before your baptism. The video allows you to share how Christ has been working in your life.

Pre-recording allows you to do as many takes as necessary, while sharing the message you

have thoughtfully and prayerfully prepared ahead of time. Many people ask, "Do I have to do

the video?" The answer is yes, if you want to be baptized at the Summit.

http://www.summitadventurechurch.com/Su ... rocess.pdf

So, they admit that many people question and try to avoid having to record and re-record their 'testimony', but they still make it a requirement of an event that they claim to be a step of obedience to God, and as serious and important as marriage. :roll:

[mirele]

Hoo boy. I bet "Summit Adventure Church" goes over REAL WELL in conservative Sandy, Utah.

*double facepalming*

Especially that baptism video requirement. That's crap. The apostles didn't require that. When Philip was teaching the Ethiopian eunuch, the guy said at one point, "Here's water, can I be baptized?" That was it--and, if you believe Acts, as soon as the baptism was done, Philip was caught up by an angel and the eunuch went on his way rejoicing.

I also think the notion of a baptism video like this is something like blackmail. There's something that doesn't smell right about it.

[SoybeanQueen]

Holy crap. This thread needs a gross-out warning. I feel sick, literally.

[Ramona]

I think that the church leaders are trying to make these events appeal to teenagers.

Yep. My daughter (currently almost sixteen) attended a youth group for a while where a lot of the "gross out" type games were played, although she never reported anything as DISGUSTING as some of the things mentioned here. There was weird mixed foods and a game where both kids had to lick sides of a piece of see through plastic (like a plastic window), and some other stuff... It's to get the teenagers in the door. Get them, entertain them, brainwash them... oops did I say that? :P

[Guest Anonymous]

Hoo boy. I bet "Summit Adventure Church" goes over REAL WELL in conservative Sandy, Utah.

*double facepalming*

Especially that baptism video requirement. That's crap. The apostles didn't require that. When Philip was teaching the Ethiopian eunuch, the guy said at one point, "Here's water, can I be baptized?" That was it--and, if you believe Acts, as soon as the baptism was done, Philip was caught up by an angel and the eunuch went on his way rejoicing.

I also think the notion of a baptism video like this is something like blackmail. There's something that doesn't smell right about it.

Yeah, wow. That is super creepy. I'm sort of thinking we've seen the last of JukeboxLucky. I hope I'm wrong because I would love for her to explain how that video business is Biblical.

[formergothardite]

I will be shocked if she comes back. I think the problem is that many Christians aren't used to having to defend their beliefs or actions. They are used to society just loving them and not questioning what they do, so when someone does question them or point out how they find their actions offensive, they don't know what to do. It has probably never, ever entered her mind that the Gospel story could scare children or that some people don't think OCC is a good thing. And that is why she ran. It is easier to run and go back to the bubble where no one will question you rather than look deeply at what you are doing and defend your behaviour.

[loveandwar]

JukeboxLucky...

I am a former youth leader in a charismatic church. Emphasis on the word "former." Still a Christian, but very jumpy about entering any form of youth/student ministry ever again. It didn't start out bad, but as the group grew, immature behavior was encouraged by the adults who knew better. I was usually the only leader who didn't want to participate. This got me labeled "uptight." I stuck with it, though, because I loved the kids and wanted there to be ONE sane leader around. But I got to a point where I couldn't do it anymore.

You are the ADULT. Act like one.

[debrand]

Don't these kind of groups encourage peer pressure? Isn't there pressure on kids who don't want to engage in these types of activities to go with the group. That was one of the reasons that my neighbor's son didn't take part in any of the youth groups.

[celestial]

Ugh. Disgusting. What the hell. I mean, there was some pretty bizarre stuff that happened in my youth group, but nothing like THIS. :shock: