Craigslist Adoptions?

[SpeakNow]

Not sure if this belonged in Snark or Chatter but...

There was an article about an increasing number of adoptions happening over Craigslist. Something about that just feels wrong to me.

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/craigs ... 00827.html

[ElphabaGalinda]

Not sure if this belonged in Snark or Chatter but...

There was an article about an increasing number of adoptions happening over Craigslist. Something about that just feels wrong to me.

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/craigs ... 00827.html

This feels wrong to me too. I think because scams on craigslist are just sooo easy. You can't be sure the adoptive parents are who they say they are, and you can't be sure the people claiming they have a child up for adoption really do. I dunno, I wouldn't trust all the legal things to be done right over craigslist either. I think using a real agency provides a lot of security, not perfect, but better than craigslist. I've heard people getting scammed trying to buy a car or some clothes over craigslist, and I dunno, putting a baby up for adoption or adopting a baby is not something I'd want to leave to the chance that that could happen.

[lilwriter85]

This feels wrong to me too. I think because scams on craigslist are just sooo easy. You can't be sure the adoptive parents are who they say they are, and you can't be sure the people claiming they have a child up for adoption really do. I dunno, I wouldn't trust all the legal things to be done right over craigslist either. I think using a real agency provides a lot of security, not perfect, but better than craigslist. I've heard people getting scammed trying to buy a car or some clothes over craigslist, and I dunno, putting a baby up for adoption or adopting a baby is not something I'd want to leave to the chance that that could happen.

Those things that you mentioned also feel wrong to me. There have been cases of adoption scams for years after people respond to or place ads in newspapers and magazines. Craiglist ends up being another method for scams to happen.

[NurseNell]

It also makes it easier to bypass the father, who has legal rights to parent if he so chooses. The one story mentions specifically the pregnant woman did not want her former partner knowing. She claimed domestic violence, which might be true, might not be. Too often the father isn't notified, then he learns after the fact about his child. When he goes to court to establish paternity lots of people have their lives disrupted. If the child is part Indian (Native American) the Indian Child Welfare Act might be circumvented, which can lead to major problems. So all in all Craig's List doesn't seem like a reputable way to go.

[Jajajajulie]

You'd still have to have a home study and have to go through a lawyer, so there are checks and balances in place. One of the problems with going through an agency is they take a big cut of money. A private adoption through a lawyer you obtain yourself can be a lot less expensive if you find the birth mother yourself. My friends explored lots of creative ways to find a birth mother when they were looking to adopt. Ultimately their agency panned out for them, but it was a long, long wait, and they hit all the pluses birthparents generally look for. They were young, had family nearby, she could be a SAHM until the child was in school and her job while she was looking was working with special needs kids, they could not have children on their own,. The one thing working against them was they were pagan (which they didn't advertise that -- they just said they were not religious). They were turned down for all sort of reasons -- not being Christian, not already having kids, having a dog instead of a cat for a pet (no, I'm not joking). We started the adoption process at the same time, and we were home with our child, had given birth to another (oh the surprises involved when your diagnosis is "unexplained infertility), and our bio child was 7 months old by the time they adopted their little guy.

I can see how a scam could happen from this, but scams happen all the time through reputable agencies. A woman doesn't really want to give up her baby, but can't afford the medical care so she says she wants to put the child up for adoption. The adoptive-parents-to-be dole out money for living expenses and medical bills. Birth mother changes her mind after the baby is born and there is no recourse to get that money back. That's one of the main reasons we adopted internationally instead of domestically. It's hard and heartbreaking to try to find a birthmother, and sadly, it's largely about selling yourself or an image of yourself. I can see why people would turn to Craigslist. It's no worse of an option than want-ads in the paper, and that method of finding a birthmother has been around long before the internet.

[luckystone]

I've seen those for years and yes, I think it's wrong.

I've read a few interesting articles about how in America, so many adoption agencies are linked with pro-life groups and the pressure tactics they use are intense. Girls who were/looked younger (20ish) had written stories about how they were consistently pressured to give their babies up, even when they didn't intend to.

And yes, sometimes it seems like babies are being born and sold.

Adoption seems to be far less common in other countries with less of an abortion stigma, better access to birth control, and free health care.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Craiglist should not be the place to adopt a child from...if someone wants to adopt a kid, they should do it properly

[Jana814]

Craiglist should not be the place to adopt a child from...if someone wants to adopt a kid, they should do it properly

I agree with you. But I would think that maybe this way is less expensive then going though an agency

[Jajajajulie]

Craiglist should not be the place to adopt a child from...if someone wants to adopt a kid, they should do it properly

But they're NOT adopting a child from Craigslist. They're finding a birth mother on Craigslist. There is a big difference. It's not as though the birthmother and potential adoptive parents broker a deal and meet up to exchange goods in an alley after the child is born. Social workers, the lawyers, and courts are involved. You're just cutting out the middle man (the agency) which isn't necessarily a paragon of ethics. If anything, agencies can be very underhanded. They often pressure these girls into giving up their babies though they may not want to. They can't force them, but if you're young, alone, and feel you're out of options, they can turn up the guilt and pressure. Some even lie to them about about their rights. Some agencies also have "fast track" programs which mean you get bumped to the top of the list if you pay more money. Many agencies won't work with you if you're not Christian. And most agencies let the birthmothers go through profile after profile of potential parents. They pick where they want their child to go. If that means the people who have been waiting for 3 years are next on the list, but they have a dog and you want your child to go to a family with cats, that means that family is tossed aside yet again.

At least with private websites, Craigslist, newspaper ads, etc., the birthmother is seeking out that specific person or couple. If anyone thinks that it's like selling a baby, it's the same thing with an agency. You still write up a profile which is a sunshine-and-roses-only story about your lives, full of the perfect pictures and try to sell yourself to a birthmother.

[luckystone]

But they're NOT adopting a child from Craigslist. They're finding a birth mother on Craigslist. There is a big difference. It's not as though the birthmother and potential adoptive parents broker a deal and meet up to exchange goods in an alley after the child is born. Social workers, the lawyers, and courts are involved. You're just cutting out the middle man (the agency) which isn't necessarily a paragon of ethics. If anything, agencies can be very underhanded. They often pressure these girls into giving up their babies though they may not want to. They can't force them, but if you're young, alone, and feel you're out of options, they can turn up the guilt and pressure. Some even lie to them about about their rights. Some agencies also have "fast track" programs which mean you get bumped to the top of the list if you pay more money. Many agencies won't work with you if you're not Christian. And most agencies let the birthmothers go through profile after profile of potential parents. They pick where they want their child to go. If that means the people who have been waiting for 3 years are next on the list, but they have a dog and you want your child to go to a family with cats, that means that family is tossed aside yet again.

At least with private websites, Craigslist, newspaper ads, etc., the birthmother is seeking out that specific person or couple. If anyone thinks that it's like selling a baby, it's the same thing with an agency. You still write up a profile which is a sunshine-and-roses-only story about your lives, full of the perfect pictures and try to sell yourself to a birthmother.

True. I don't like the agencies much either. A lot of them are very shady.

Either way it really seems like selling a child to me.

I'm pretty sure in a lot of countries you can't make payments in the same way and there are mandatory "opt out" periods

[sarahbrownie]

I vaguely remember there was a 20/20 or Dateline special about this post-"to catch a predator", instead focusing on to "catch a scam artist" or something.

[lilwriter85]

I vaguely remember there was a 20/20 or Dateline special about this post-"to catch a predator", instead focusing on to "catch a scam artist" or something.

I also remember a Dateline special on adoption scams from five or six years ago. I remember they profiled a couple who placed adoption ads in newspapers and a woman pretended to be pregnant and she scammed them out of money. The Dateline producers tracked down the scammer and law enforcement picked her up. When I was 13 or 14(late 90s), 20/20 did a similar segment on adoption scams.

[Jana814]

I also remember a Dateline special on adoption scams from five or six years ago. I remember they profiled a couple who placed adoption ads in newspapers and a woman pretended to be pregnant and she scammed them out of money. The Dateline producers tracked down the scammer and law enforcement picked her up. When I was 13 or 14(late 90s), 20/20 did a similar segment on adoption scams.

I remember seeing that Dateline show. This couple already had 1 child through adoption & they went through an attorney the reason why they went the other way was they were trying to go a less expensive route. I felt so bad for this couple. Also this person scammed other people for money as well.

[BravaAmica]

I can see how a scam could happen from this, but scams happen all the time through reputable agencies. A woman doesn't really want to give up her baby, but can't afford the medical care so she says she wants to put the child up for adoption. The adoptive-parents-to-be dole out money for living expenses and medical bills. Birth mother changes her mind after the baby is born and there is no recourse to get that money back. That's one of the main reasons we adopted internationally instead of domestically. It's hard and heartbreaking to try to find a birthmother, and sadly, it's largely about selling yourself or an image of yourself. I can see why people would turn to Craigslist. It's no worse of an option than want-ads in the paper, and that method of finding a birthmother has been around long before the internet.

You know, that pisses me off. I think the birth mother should be on the hook for expenses if she changes her mind. I really do. And no more two month, three month or six month waiting periods. Have the baby and sign the papers. And the same goes for the birth father. Once the child is adopted, it's adopted. No coming back three years later and whinging about how much you want your baby. No complaining about how your ex-GF never told you (there was probably a very good reason).

And I know I'm bitter and irrational about this because I've had close friends who are trying to be adoptive parents have birth mothers pull this shit on them. Two used them for medical expenses and living expenses. And another changed her mind at the very last second. One birth father swooped in and started complaining about how he didn't know he had a child and oh, he just had to have custody. And it seems like domestic adoptions [in the US] are weighted in favor of the birth mother. Everything is all about her, nothing is about the adoptive parents. Why is it even an option if it's made so damn difficult to give up your baby? The adoptive parents end up with nothing but heartbreak. It appears to be very difficult and obnoxious for adoptive parents. It's no wonder there are so few domestic adoptions.

[patsymae]

If there were no pre-birth matching, there would be no chance for prospective adoptive parents to be ripped off by women who are expecting babies (they are not "birthmothers" until they have terminated their rights). I agree the system works against people who want adopt children who belong to other people, but I don't agree that the solution is to make those people entitled to someone else's child. Natural fathers and mothers have every right to keep their children regardless of whether or not someone else wants them; of course adoptions are weighted in favor of the "birth mother"--it is her child.

And yes, I'm bitter too, and come from the other side--of course it's damn difficult to give up your child, which is not just some commodity that people can pick up, and no one is an "adoptive parent" of someone else's child just because they want to be--you only become adoptive parents after all the papers are signed, and then only if everything has been done legally.

I do feel for prospective adoptive parents who are scammed, but not for those who just feel that they are entitled to someone else's baby. The situation could be avoided if the adoption industry ceased to exist as a profit-making entity, adoptions were handled through social service agencies that provide adoption only as one of many services, and the only children considered for adoption were already born, natural parents were made available of all of their options including financial assistance and kinship placements, and all extended family were unable and/or unwilling to parent. In countries where this is the procedure the adoption rate is much lower than that in the U.S. That way prospective adoptive parents wouldn't become the victim of scams and the focus would be on providing families for children who really need them, not acquiring children for people who want them.

Okay, let the arrows fly.

[NurseNell]

If there were no pre-birth matching, there would be no chance for prospective adoptive parents to be ripped off by women who are expecting babies (they are not "birthmothers" until they have terminated their rights). I agree the system works against people who want adopt children who belong to other people, but I don't agree that the solution is to make those people entitled to someone else's child. Natural fathers and mothers have every right to keep their children regardless of whether or not someone else wants them; of course adoptions are weighted in favor of the "birth mother"--it is her child.

And yes, I'm bitter too, and come from the other side--of course it's damn difficult to give up your child, which is not just some commodity that people can pick up, and no one is an "adoptive parent" of someone else's child just because they want to be--you only become adoptive parents after all the papers are signed, and then only if everything has been done legally.

I do feel for prospective adoptive parents who are scammed, but not for those who just feel that they are entitled to someone else's baby. The situation could be avoided if the adoption industry ceased to exist as a profit-making entity, adoptions were handled through social service agencies that provide adoption only as one of many services, and the only children considered for adoption were already born, natural parents were made available of all of their options including financial assistance and kinship placements, and all extended family were unable and/or unwilling to parent. In countries where this is the procedure the adoption rate is much lower than that in the U.S. That way prospective adoptive parents wouldn't become the victim of scams and the focus would be on providing families for children who really need them, not acquiring children for people who want them.

Okay, let the arrows fly.

No arrows from me. I agree 100%. One of my pet peeves is referring to women as birthmothers before they have relinquished. Adoption must be about finding parents for children who need them, not finding babies for parents who want them. And the whole process must be transparent. I would add all adult adoptees deserve their original birth certificate too.

[longskirtlotsakids]

Isn't establishing guardianship a convenient way to circumvent the whole adoption process? I know of several families who had no lawyer or homestudies, and basically adopted a child by the mother naming someone else as a guardian to the young child.

[Witsec7]

Isn't establishing guardianship a convenient way to circumvent the whole adoption process? I know of several families who had no lawyer or homestudies, and basically adopted a child by the mother naming someone else as a guardian to the young child.

Guardianship is a different legal process and substantially different than adoption. I was a court appointed guardian for two teens to adulthood. Their parents still had parental rights and obligations to support their children. So of their parental rights were extended to me since these girls lived in my physical custody. The courts still had the option of returning them to their families if the situations improved.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I vaguely remember there was a 20/20 or Dateline special about this post-"to catch a predator", instead focusing on to "catch a scam artist" or something.

Just a week ago they did a Dateline thing on Craigslist. They were able to find a hitman, and a man who was selling his drug dealing business: giving a list of all of his clients and he would even train you how to ship it.

I remember seeing ones on adoption too. Some of the women arent even pregnant, they are just faking it for money. Sick

[Petronella7]

Just a week ago they did a Dateline thing on Craigslist. They were able to find a hitman, and a man who was selling his drug dealing business: giving a list of all of his clients and he would even train you how to ship it.

I remember seeing ones on adoption too. Some of the women arent even pregnant, they are just faking it for money. Sick

I would guess that the number of times that "birthmothers" have scammed prospective adopters is a tiny, tiny fraction of the number of times that pregnant women have been coerced, lied to, bullied, manipulated, and shamed into giving up their children.

If there were no pre-birth matching, there would be no chance for prospective adoptive parents to be ripped off by women who are expecting babies (they are not "birthmothers" until they have terminated their rights). I agree the system works against people who want adopt children who belong to other people, but I don't agree that the solution is to make those people entitled to someone else's child. Natural fathers and mothers have every right to keep their children regardless of whether or not someone else wants them; of course adoptions are weighted in favor of the "birth mother"--it is her child.

And yes, I'm bitter too, and come from the other side--of course it's damn difficult to give up your child, which is not just some commodity that people can pick up, and no one is an "adoptive parent" of someone else's child just because they want to be--you only become adoptive parents after all the papers are signed, and then only if everything has been done legally.

I do feel for prospective adoptive parents who are scammed, but not for those who just feel that they are entitled to someone else's baby. The situation could be avoided if the adoption industry ceased to exist as a profit-making entity, adoptions were handled through social service agencies that provide adoption only as one of many services, and the only children considered for adoption were already born, natural parents were made available of all of their options including financial assistance and kinship placements, and all extended family were unable and/or unwilling to parent. In countries where this is the procedure the adoption rate is much lower than that in the U.S. That way prospective adoptive parents wouldn't become the victim of scams and the focus would be on providing families for children who really need them, not acquiring children for people who want them.

Okay, let the arrows fly.

:clap: :clap: :clap: As an adoptee, I could not agree more with this. In a healthy society, adoption of a child by strangers would be rare, odd, and usually unnecessary.

[Terrie]

Some studies have shown that going the attorney route doesn't save all that much money -- $2,000 out of over $30,000. Plus, when you look at the time used to do those things an agency does, I'm not sure you actually come out ahead. http://www.adoptivefamilies.com/articles.php?aid=2161

[slickcat79]

If there were no pre-birth matching, there would be no chance for prospective adoptive parents to be ripped off by women who are expecting babies (they are not "birthmothers" until they have terminated their rights). I agree the system works against people who want adopt children who belong to other people, but I don't agree that the solution is to make those people entitled to someone else's child. Natural fathers and mothers have every right to keep their children regardless of whether or not someone else wants them; of course adoptions are weighted in favor of the "birth mother"--it is her child.

And yes, I'm bitter too, and come from the other side--of course it's damn difficult to give up your child, which is not just some commodity that people can pick up, and no one is an "adoptive parent" of someone else's child just because they want to be--you only become adoptive parents after all the papers are signed, and then only if everything has been done legally.

I do feel for prospective adoptive parents who are scammed, but not for those who just feel that they are entitled to someone else's baby. The situation could be avoided if the adoption industry ceased to exist as a profit-making entity, adoptions were handled through social service agencies that provide adoption only as one of many services, and the only children considered for adoption were already born, natural parents were made available of all of their options including financial assistance and kinship placements, and all extended family were unable and/or unwilling to parent. In countries where this is the procedure the adoption rate is much lower than that in the U.S. That way prospective adoptive parents wouldn't become the victim of scams and the focus would be on providing families for children who really need them, not acquiring children for people who want them.

Okay, let the arrows fly.

YES. No one is entitled to someone else's baby just because they want one.

[Feberin]

YES. No one is entitled to someone else's baby just because they want one.

I agree. While some things like dogs versus cats are silly other things like religion or to have siblings might be something important to the birth mother. She's the one who is giving up her child so I think it's only fair that she can pick the pair of parents she feels are best for her child.

[Irishy]

Despite the fact that there is no abortion in Ireland, there are virtually zero babies placed for adoption.

I put this down to free healthcare, decent welfare system and housing. How horrible to have to give away your baby for financial reasons. How disgustingly unfair.

[lilith]

Despite the fact that there is no abortion in Ireland, there are virtually zero babies placed for adoption.

I put this down to free healthcare, decent welfare system and housing. How horrible to have to give away your baby for financial reasons. How disgustingly unfair.

To be fair, easy access to abortion a ferry ride away in England probably has a lot to do with it too.