Craigslist Adoptions?

[Irishy]

To be fair, easy access to abortion a ferry ride away in England probably has a lot to do with it too.

Yes, probably. But for those that don't want to terminate, there's fewer obstacles to keeping your baby.

[luckystone]

Despite the fact that there is no abortion in Ireland, there are virtually zero babies placed for adoption.

I put this down to free healthcare, decent welfare system and housing. How horrible to have to give away your baby for financial reasons. How disgustingly unfair.

I have thought the same too about Australia (though you can get abortions). Having the baby in hospital is free and you get a baby bonus. A lot of women in the US seem to have to give their babies up simply so someone will pay the medical expenses. They also have things like college loans to contend with, rather than a government-subsidised system. Adoptions at birth are very rare in Australia and I'm pretty sure you have to wait until well afterwards to agree to anything etc.

[Irishy]

I have thought the same too about Australia (though you can get abortions). Having the baby in hospital is free and you get a baby bonus. A lot of women in the US seem to have to give their babies up simply so someone will pay the medical expenses. They also have things like college loans to contend with, rather than a government-subsidised system. Adoptions at birth are very rare in Australia and I'm pretty sure you have to wait until well afterwards to agree to anything etc.

It's really awful. It's no different to a developing country in this regard. Giving your child away because you literally cannot pay for the privilege of keeping your OWN baby.

[SpeakNow]

It's really awful. It's no different to a developing country in this regard. Giving your child away because you literally cannot pay for the privilege of keeping your OWN baby.

I understand that the government cannot realistically provide enough support to all parents so that they can afford to raise an unlimited amount of babies, but the US needs to start providing more of a social safety net so that no parent has to place a baby got adoption due to financial constraints.

[Fargood]

I understand that the government cannot realistically provide enough support to all parents so that they can afford to raise an unlimited amount of babies, but the US needs to start providing more of a social safety net so that no parent has to place a baby got adoption due to financial constraints.

I agree and fully support social programs; however, as an adoptive parent and attorney that encounters a lot of struggling women in the criminal justice system, I've never heard a birthmother state financial reasons as the SOLE reason for placement (including my children's birthmothers.) Money is usually at least one of the issues, but I often hear other reasons that are also compelling including the fact that the birthmother's father has vanished, the desire or need to complete school, other children to consider, health problems, emotional problems, psychological problems, drug addiction -- the list goes on.

My point is that finances are a part of the bigger picture. Birthmothers should never be compelled to place a child for adoption, but they also shouldn't be compelled to parent a child they are either unable or unwilling to parent. Birthmothers need so much more support in our society than we currently have. Support not only to parent children they want to parent, but support to make an informed and independent judgment about the placement of their child.

Just as birthmothers shouldn't be guilted or emotionally blackmailed to place their child, they should not be shamed into parenting a child they want to place for adoption.

Money is just really a socially acceptable beard for the reason for placement. The reality is that the decision to place is vastly more complex than access to monetary resources.

EDITED because I'm a terrible typist and can't be trusted to type an entire paragraph without my secretary proofreading it first.

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree and fully support social programs; however, as an adoptive parent and attorney that encounters a lot of struggling women in the criminal justice system, I've never heard a birthmother state financial reasons as the SOLE reason for placement (including my children's birthmothers.) Money is usually at least one of the issues, but I often hear other reasons that are also compelling including the fact that the birthmother's father has vanished, the desire or need to complete school, other children to consider, health problems, emotional problems, psychological problems, drug addiction -- the list goes on.

My point is that finances are a part of the bigger picture. Birthmothers should never be compelled to place a child for adoption, but they also shouldn't be compelled to parent a child they are either unable or unwilling to parent. Birthmothers need so much more support in our society than we currently have. Support not only to parent children they want to parent, but support to make an informed and independent judgment about the placement of their child.

Just as birthmothers shouldn't be guilted or emotionally blackmailed to place their child, they should not be shamed into parenting a child they want to place for adoption.

Money is just really a socially acceptable beard for the reason for placement. The reality is that the decision to place is vastly more complex than access to monetary resources.

EDITED because I'm a terrible typist and can't be trusted to type an entire paragraph without my secretary proofreading it first.

Social and healthcare programmes are about way more than money. And countries with good ones rarely have infants queueing to be adopted.

[pixydust]

Social and healthcare programmes are about way more than money. And countries with good ones rarely have infants queueing to be adopted.

There aren't many babies up for adoption in the US either. My husband has a cousin who adopted 2 kids, a 16yo and a 2yo, both from the foster care system. As a mater of fact, the only people that I have personally known who adopted infants, adopted drug addicted newborns. Those are the kids who are adoptable in this country, for the most part (but they are all considered "unadoptable").

[Guest Anonymous]

There aren't many babies up for adoption in the US either. My husband has a cousin who adopted 2 kids, a 16yo and a 2yo, both from the foster care system. As a mater of fact, the only people that I have personally known who adopted infants, adopted drug addicted newborns. Those are the kids who are adoptable in this country, for the most part (but they are all considered "unadoptable").

What about the agencies who link with pregnancy crisis centres then? Where did Lyndsie's babies come from?

[pixydust]

What about the agencies who link with pregnancy crisis centres then? Where did Lyndsie's babies come from?

I did say "for the most part".Even adoption agencies don't have many babies for adoption, that is why it takes people years to get a baby (healthy and white is most desired in the US). I assume that Lyndsie's babies came from people that they knew, because the quickness that they got 2 babies is unheard of.

[NurseNell]

I understand that the government cannot realistically provide enough support to all parents so that they can afford to raise an unlimited amount of babies, but the US needs to start providing more of a social safety net so that no parent has to place a baby got adoption due to financial constraints.

Agree. And families need to support their children who are pregnant and not married, both women and men. My daughter's birthmother died very young but having a premonition of death she left a letter in case her daughter should ever search. In the letter she told her/our daughter that her parents made it very clear she was not to bring "that baby" home, they'd both be disowned. They were very conservative Catholics. What the neighbors thought was more important. When my son and his girlfriend were 21 and 19 they had a baby. I cannot imagine disowning my son or his baby. That baby is now15 and I love him so much. My younger son's birthmother in Colombia really wanted to keep her son but her brothers and uncles said no. Colombia is a very macho country. Her father was deceased so her oldest brother was the man of the house and what he said went.

[Fargood]

What about the agencies who link with pregnancy crisis centres then? Where did Lyndsie's babies come from?

There are some infants in the US available for adoption, but it takes years and you usually have to be chosen by the birthmother. Most adoptive parents have to "market" themselves to birthmothers in order to be chosen. I don't begrudge those who do that, but I personally wasn't comfortable engaging in the practice, so we opted for a special needs adoption abroad.

I should clarify my earlier post -- I'm not saying that society shouldn't financially assist birthmothers who choose to parent their children. I'm saying that birthmothers should have the right to also choose place their children. Birthmothers will often tell people "I didn't have the financial means to care fo the child" as a socially acceptable reason for placement. The reality is that she may have had other, equally valid reasons for placement, but "no money" is a quick and relatively painless way to end the conversation. We should also support her on those issues as well.

[Fargood]

My younger son's birthmother in Colombia really wanted to keep her son but her brothers and uncles said no. Colombia is a very macho country. Her father was deceased so her oldest brother was the man of the house and what he said went.

NurseNell -- I think we know each other. I'll PM you.

[NurseNell]

NurseNell -- I think we know each other. I'll PM you.

Hmmm, interesting. I'll look for your message.

[lilwriter85]

I recall with Lyndsie and Daniel, they were doing a word of mouth adoption and they handed out cards at a public places a few times. Some FJers have the theory that Lyndie's kids are biological siblings due to the timing of both adoptions. I agree with that theory. Let's say the birth mom had Ethan and was attempting to parent. She got pregnant with the little girl and decided to adopt both them of out. She adopted out Ethan so L&D could get used to him before the girl's arrival.

Another thing to add with L&D, is that Daniel's dad is a juvenile court judge and he probably has a lot of connections in the legal community. If the kids aren't siblings, 2 women and their lawyers might have heard about L&D wanting to adopt and they called them up. There was a blog that had a guest post on L&D sometime after the little girl was adopted. It was mentioned on that blog that L&D had been rejected by several birth moms prior to the two adoptions. The birth mom from the disrupted adoption posted on FJ yuku and she said something about not liking something that L&D said. I think in private adoptions in which agencies aren't involved, rejection happens quite a bit. I think Lyndsie's lack of education or vocational training might have been factors in birth moms rejecting her.

Lyndsie said on her blog that were planning to go to an agency if private/lawyer only adoptions didn't happen in a certain time frame. I think domestic agencies would have rejected L&D because she hasn't hit the 5 year cancer free mark.

[Fargood]

Another thing to add with L&D, is that Daniel's dad is a juvenile court judge and he probably has a lot of connections in the legal community.

This could be true. I'm not real vocal about my children's adoptions in my work place, but everyone who knows me, both personally and professionally, knows that we're an adoptive family. Once people in the community know that you are open to many kinds of placements (multi-racial, special needs, older children) you start to get inquiries from birthmothers and birth families about additional children. I've even been approached by a woman who was facing a long prison term and asked if we would consider adopting her child. I always decline involvement in these cases, because I think it's an inherent conflict of interest, but I do refer the women to a reputable social service agency.

My aunt and her partner, who is a teacher, started discussing their adoption plans with co-workers on a totally informal and random basis. Within a few weeks, another teacher approached them and asked if they would considering adopting his daughter's child. They did. They are an awesome family.

[No Cure for Stupid]

I don't think that a single living creature should be on Craigslist to be adopted or given away. It just seems incredibly wrong to me. Living things shouldn't be put on a site like Craigslist.

Craigslist in and of itself isn't even a good place anyway; a lot of women who are trafficked have ads on craigslist.

[patsymae]

"as an adoptive parent and attorney that encounters a lot of struggling women in the criminal justice system,"

I think that says it all.

[Guest Anonymous]

There are some infants in the US available for adoption, but it takes years and you usually have to be chosen by the birthmother. Most adoptive parents have to "market" themselves to birthmothers in order to be chosen. I don't begrudge those who do that, but I personally wasn't comfortable engaging in the practice, so we opted for a special needs adoption abroad.

I should clarify my earlier post -- I'm not saying that society shouldn't financially assist birthmothers who choose to parent their children. I'm saying that birthmothers should have the right to also choose place their children. Birthmothers will often tell people "I didn't have the financial means to care fo the child" as a socially acceptable reason for placement. The reality is that she may have had other, equally valid reasons for placement, but "no money" is a quick and relatively painless way to end the conversation. We should also support her on those issues as well.

This could be true. I'm not real vocal about my children's adoptions in my work place, but everyone who knows me, both personally and professionally, knows that we're an adoptive family. Once people in the community know that you are open to many kinds of placements (multi-racial, special needs, older children) you start to get inquiries from birthmothers and birth families about additional children. I've even been approached by a woman who was facing a long prison term and asked if we would consider adopting her child. I always decline involvement in these cases, because I think it's an inherent conflict of interest, but I do refer the women to a reputable social service agency.

My aunt and her partner, who is a teacher, started discussing their adoption plans with co-workers on a totally informal and random basis. Within a few weeks, another teacher approached them and asked if they would considering adopting his daughter's child. They did. They are an awesome family.

In the UK, adoption for whatever reason, is permitted and supported but private adoption is not lawful. Mothers can have a say in the characteristics of the family but not the actual adopters, unless there are reasons for the child to be placed with close family. There is a wide range of support available, beyond financial support: educational grants, pre-school childcare, free health and social care etc that are made known to the mother by social services etc.

The focus of the adoption service is to be sure that the mother is absolutely clear on all options and then to find a match for the CHILD'S needs. It is not a perfect system, but it is one where lawyers and teachers and other worthy and privileged individuals are free to do their jobs without conflict of interest because scouting for babies in work time cannot happen.

To the bolded.... I have no words... :?

eta quote

[luckystone]

The focus of the adoption service is to be sure that the mother is absolutely clear on all options and then to find a match for the CHILD'S needs. It is not a perfect system, but it is one where lawyers and teachers and other worthy and privileged individuals are free to do their jobs without conflict of interest because scouting for babies in work time cannot happen.

Yes, same here I like to think...rather than it being all about the adoptive parents, which it is in some other places/examples

[Dollypeeps]

Craigslist for adoptions no way. That would be illegal here in the UK.

I'm sure the birth parents are not allowed to know who is adopting their baby/child/teen because of repercussions yes allowed reports and updates but that's it till 16-18 depending if Scotland or England/Wales.

In fact I can't get my head round It at all. Craigslist and babies?????????????

[Guest Anonymous]

Craigslist for adoptions no way. That would be illegal here in the UK.

I'm sure the birth parents are not allowed to know who is adopting their baby/child/teen because of repercussions yes allowed reports and updates but that's it till 16-18 depending if Scotland or England/Wales.

In fact I can't get my head round It at all. Craigslist and babies?????????????

We do have open adoptions in the UK and they are encouraged, as long as it is in the child's best interest.

[Peas n carrots]

You know, that pisses me off. I think the birth mother should be on the hook for expenses if she changes her mind. I really do. And no more two month, three month or six month waiting periods. Have the baby and sign the papers. And the same goes for the birth father. Once the child is adopted, it's adopted. No coming back three years later and whinging about how much you want your baby. No complaining about how your ex-GF never told you (there was probably a very good reason).

And I know I'm bitter and irrational about this because I've had close friends who are trying to be adoptive parents have birth mothers pull this shit on them. Two used them for medical expenses and living expenses. And another changed her mind at the very last second. One birth father swooped in and started complaining about how he didn't know he had a child and oh, he just had to have custody. And it seems like domestic adoptions [in the US] are weighted in favor of the birth mother. Everything is all about her, nothing is about the adoptive parents. Why is it even an option if it's made so damn difficult to give up your baby? The adoptive parents end up with nothing but heartbreak. It appears to be very difficult and obnoxious for adoptive parents. It's no wonder there are so few domestic adoptions.

You know what pisses me off? People who think they are entitled to other people's children. Adoption should be weighted in the birth parents favor, because you know it's their fucking kid. I think it sucks for your friends that they invested so much of themselves and their money, but they knew the risks and when you gamble you sometimes lose.

Adoptin should be about the child, not the birth parents and certainly NOT about the adoptive parents needs.

[luckystone]

You know what pisses me off? People who think they are entitled to other people's children. Adoption should be weighted in the birth parents favor, because you know it's their fucking kid. I think it sucks for your friends that they invested so much of themselves and their money, but they knew the risks and when you gamble you sometimes lose.

Adoptin should be about the child, not the birth parents and certainly NOT about the adoptive parents needs.

I think until you've held the child you really can't say whether you'll be able to give it away or not...so I COMPLETELY understand why a woman would change her mind and absolutely she should not be vilified for doing so. And I don't think you should be able to sign off before the birth with no going back (which apparently you can in some parts of the USA). As for who pays in a change of mind situation, that's a tough one. The easiest solution is bloody national health care. The entitlement mentality bothers me too.

I guess I never thought of the other angle of it before - that birth mothers might deliberately try and scam others. But I don't think that's very likely, and certainly it all comes back to if you have adequate social services these things are far, far less likely to happen.

[Fargood]

To the bolded.... I have no words...

I'm disappointed at your assumptions about my post. The father and daughter (birthmother) came to a decision and the father knew of my aunt and her partner's desire to adopt a child. The daughter/birthmother absolutely made the decision to place the child and asked her father to introduce her to a family for a placement for the child.

Your assumptions about the facts of the situation are misplaced.