This Evil Woman Had An Opinion About Her Family's Finances!

[debrand]

onmysoapbox2.wordpress.com/

How is discussing finances like two adults demeaning to men?

Because, in truth, that is exactly what I had come to be doing. Over the years, I had created budgets, set spending schedules, been particularly vocal about whether we could afford a purchase that was being considered, silently scowled in disapproval when a significantly pricey purchase was made without my knowledge, not-so-silently suggested that certain unwise purchases might have been avoided if I had been consulted, opposed his ideas for family vacations based solely on “can we afford it?â€, worried that we don’t give enough money to charitable causes, and perhaps the most devastating of all, held on to a continual, low-grade guilt over having signed onto a mortgage contract when I was secretly fearing the amount of debt we would be then facing.

Now, I want to make clear that most of the above took place internally, and it has not been our habit to audibly bicker over finances. Also, my motivation was not pride in my position or a desire to control my husband. It wasn’t even a conscious decision to be difficult. For me, fear of the consequences should my husband make a disastrous financial choice was driving me into a cycle of anxiety, irritation, guilt and depression.

I already offered some thoughts on the influential power of a wife. But I want to emphasize how this sort of ongoing resistance will erode a husband’s peace of mind and confidence to step out and make the effort to lead well. While my own hubby displays an amazing level of patience, I know that he is a rarity. It was perhaps a year and a half past that he had reached his limit while we were driving home and he was getting an earful of my newest “pay off our mortgage as quickly as possible†scheme. He shut me down and let me know in no uncertain terms that he makes a decent wage and he didn’t want to hear any more about money.

Although he never raised his voice–used perfectly civil language–I knew he was irritated with me and I mournfully interpreted his response to be that he doesn’t care that I was afraid we’d be in trouble with God for not heeding the Scriptural warnings about debt, poor stewardship, or the instruction to “owe no manâ€. Upon reflection, I can see now that he felt trapped and harassed by a wife that seemed to be demanding he find a way to make more money when he’s been blessed to retain his relatively well-paying job in a failing economy.

[Conuly]

Of course, it's her fault for caring if he's spending money like water. :roll:

[Esther]

Once again an example of fundies hankering for a past that never really existed. Throughout history, it's actually often been women who have managed the finances of their household - during the latter half of the 19th century, 80-85% of all purchases in the US were made by women. Were these women ebil un-Biblical feminists too?

... Probably. Oh, fundies.

[YPestis]

I'm not sure what this woman think she's done wrong? Since she is the homemaker, she knows the family's budget and needs better than the husband. Shouldn't she be deeply involved in the financial decisions of the house? Plus, why shouldn't she express her reservations of the family debt, or vacations, or mortgage payment? I actually thought that was the wife's job, to counsel and warn their husband against foolish decisions. Even Steve Maxwell mentions this in one of his essays.

And what type of man feels pushed over by disagreements and dissenting opinions? Perhaps an insecure man, or a man who cannot justify his decisions. Isn't the mark of a good leader one who can take criticism and find the best path which satisfies all concerned parties? Wow, how fragile are fundie men's egos that they can only lead when people stop criticizing them and follow blindly!

Women have been taking lead on household finances throughout history. Many women with land owning husbands had the complete run the of their property, helping with finances and business transactions. It was a family run enterprise. Poor women engaged in side businesses to bring in extra income, and they certainly didn't meekly submit in front of a husband if they loved their children! You bet these women didn't just roll over when their husbands decided money on cigarettes was ok while the baby had no milk! Where do these fundie women find these ideas?!

[emmiedahl]

I actually have a pet fundie on FB who is of the same belief.

She is about to have her second child and they are deep in debt from the husband's frivolous spending. It is sad to read statuses about not being able to afford necessities and then to hear about how their marriage has been saved by her learning to remain silent when he blows a month's worth of pay on a television. They make a decent income and she is worried they will not be able to afford their health insurance. She blames Obama but I know who I blame.

[2xx1xy1JD]

So, what's wrong with this advice? How about.....everything?

Marriage is a partnership. Regardless of how the couple divides the paid and unpaid tasks, they are both adults, and they both have legal and moral responsibilities to others (including any children and any creditors).

I hate the word "nag". It comes from a position of powerlessness. You are a "nag" if someone else has, or assumes that he has, a position of power and doesn't really want to consider your POV but has to hear your voice anyway. Would the husband ever think of his boss as a "nag"? Didn't think so. The first thing that needs to happen is that both of them realize that they are equal partners, and that decisions need to be made jointly, respectfully considering the views of both of them. Everything else flows from that.

Second, the literal Hebrew translation of "helpmeet" is "help opposite". Sometimes, the best "help" is to provide the opposite perspective. If a husband lacks skills in budgeting or money management, a wife can balance that out (and vice versa). Sitting back, watching finances spiral out of control, letting your children go without the basics and debts go unpaid is NOT what responsible adults do.

I know someone close to me who was like this. I think it would have been better for her to grow a backbone instead of allowing things to go downhill to the point of bankruptcy.

[wtylcf]

onmysoapbox2.wordpress.com/

How is discussing finances like two adults demeaning to men?

So she was talking about wise spending habits and budgeting, and he responded that he "makes a decent wage and didn't want to hear any more about money?" He responded to suggestions about spending with a veiled accusation that she was asking him to make MORE money? Way to set up a straw man, dude.

Also, how stupid is it that the wife made budgets and evaluated everything in light of whether it was financially affordable for the couple, and yet hid the extent of her knowledge from her spouse to save his pride? It seemed like he spent willy-nilly on whatever he liked without consulting his wife or thinking about the cost, which just seems immature. It's a stupid partner who would suppress an obvious gift for finances in his spouse under the guise of "needing to be a leader." If you budget together (even if one person does all the number-crunching and the other is just aware of the financial decisions made) you can made financial decisions together that will save you money and let you spend your money on important things that you want to have, without one half of the couple carrying all this resentment about the other's spending. Financial planning is a win-win situation that in this case has been turned into a lose-lose situation by this patriarchy bullshit.

[Fargood]

I was just reading this post to my husband. His first marriage was one in which his wife expected him to make every financial decision. My husband says it was one of the primary reasons for the downfall of the marriage. he hated the constant pressure of her spending and refusal to be vested in a budget plan.

My husband and I discuss every dollar we make and spend. We have a budget and regularly meet to plan shopping, major purchases and savings. It's one of the best parts of our marriage. It's a genuine partnership. We both feel like we're in this together.

I didn't get married to be lorded over by someone with half my intelligence. I *know* my husband isn't the kind of guy to lord over a woman, even though I don't doubt his intelligence one bit.

[rock_girl]

Wait, so men are supposed to go out and make all the money, then they have to be responsible for how it's spent and saved? Far be it from me to defend the poor suffering men, but that is putting a huge burden on one half of the marriage. Why would any man want that, and why would any woman want to put herself in such a precarious financial position? What happens when your bloke's so overwhelmed by financial holes (that he cannot possibly discuss with you because, you know, VAGINA) that he just gives up trying to budget and turns instead to credit cards and payday loans? Before you know it, debt's spiralling out of control, and there's no way you're going to be able to pay it down without making major sacrifices. The wife could have gotten a job, or pared down the family budget, but the husband knew that wasn't her role, so there was no asking for a little cooperation on her part. Or what about if the husband dies suddenly? If you don't know jack about paying bills and managing money you're going to be in trouble before too long.

Then there's the abusive dick situation, which this woman appears to have gotten herself into. Financial abuse is still abuse in my book. The family would be far better served if both went out to work (even if she worked 3 evening shifts a week) and they both had input into the family budget. Divy everything up, assign spending money to each of them, and the mortgage payment is never going to be short.

These people are such wankers. If there's a god, I'm pretty sure he's not cool with the wife being in a constant state of stress because her jerk of a husband refuses to acknowledge financial reality.

[fundifugee]

I actually have a pet fundie on FB who is of the same belief.

She is about to have her second child and they are deep in debt from the husband's frivolous spending. It is sad to read statuses about not being able to afford necessities and then to hear about how their marriage has been saved by her learning to remain silent when he blows a month's worth of pay on a television. They make a decent income and she is worried they will not be able to afford their health insurance. She blames Obama but I know who I blame.

Sounds like you are facebook friended with my brother's wife.

God forbid financial management is done by the most competent person rather than the one with testicles.

[RosyDaisy]

Growing up in a traditional family, daddy made the money, and my stay at home mama took care of the budget. And let me tell you, he was grateful for it and didn't feel like less of a man because of it. He couldn't balance the family budge if his life depended on it. I seriously don't get how these fundie marriages aren't falling apart in droves because of all of this pressure put on men in today's society.

[Deleted07]

Money is something that I really feel strongly about. After seeing my parents be crippled with their bad financial decisions, because of their lack of care and knowledge. Leading to us living in basic poverty week to week, mean't that it at least made me incredibly diligent with my own money.

Once I was working and had my own money I made sure I budgeted everything down to the last cent. I did not want to be living week to week, paying out more than I was earning, and not thinking toward the future!

I could never be with a man who was frivolous with money, and wouldn't heed my advice on financial decisions.

That kind of reaction from the husband there, proves to me he knows very well what he is doing is wrong and he is indeed guilty of not really caring about the money side of things and just didn't want to be held accountable by his wife.

Its STUPID to me that the wife would just be quiet and allow this to happen. I don't give a shit what the Bible says, if your husband is endangering the financial welfare of your family, you speak up!!!

[Deleted05]

How is discussing finances like two adults demeaning to men?

Women are not adults.

[Miggy]

Do these people ever read their own bibles?

Proverbs 31:16 (The Good Wife) She considers a field and buys it. With the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.

[emmiedahl]

Money is something that I really feel strongly about. After seeing my parents be crippled with their bad financial decisions, because of their lack of care and knowledge. Leading to us living in basic poverty week to week, mean't that it at least made me incredibly diligent with my own money.

Once I was working and had my own money I made sure I budgeted everything down to the last cent. I did not want to be living week to week, paying out more than I was earning, and not thinking toward the future!

I could never be with a man who was frivolous with money, and wouldn't heed my advice on financial decisions.

That kind of reaction from the husband there, proves to me he knows very well what he is doing is wrong and he is indeed guilty of not really caring about the money side of things and just didn't want to be held accountable by his wife.

Its STUPID to me that the wife would just be quiet and allow this to happen. I don't give a shit what the Bible says, if your husband is endangering the financial welfare of your family, you speak up!!!

My stepfather has many wonderful traits, but he is bad with money. When he met my mother, he was deep in debt. He just cannot handle money. When he moved in with my mother, she took over all finances. He received a cash allowance and had to make it last through the month. If special expenses came up, he discussed them with my mother and she gave him more money. It sounds emasculating, but he was down with the plan and willingly followed through it. Now their sizable debt is paid off and they are well on their way to owning 3 rental houses.

Sometimes one spouse (even the one with a PENIS) is bad at budgeting and managing money while another (sometimes the one with a VAGINA) is really good at it.

[Miggy]

My stepfather has many wonderful traits, but he is bad with money. When he met my mother, he was deep in debt. He just cannot handle money. When he moved in with my mother, she took over all finances. He received a cash allowance and had to make it last through the month. If special expenses came up, he discussed them with my mother and she gave him more money. It sounds emasculating, but he was down with the plan and willingly followed through it. Now their sizable debt is paid off and they are well on their way to owning 3 rental houses.

Sometimes one spouse (even the one with a PENIS) is bad at budgeting and managing money while another (sometimes the one with a VAGINA) is really good at it.

I don't understand this with fundies. If God wants us to do certain roles, why did he sometimes give the skills to do that role to the wrong partner. I am hopeless with money and hubby is great so we're ok in fundyland on that one. I know plenty of couples round the other way. The God I know wouldn't make us one way and expect us to act completely the opposite to fit the rules. That would make God the playground bully rather than the loving Father. In our case, it was over childcare versus work. Neither of us wanted to put our kids in care and it worked out much better that I work and hubby stayed home with the kids. Why should I stay home with the kids when I love working and earn more money than my husband and he is really happy staying at home?

[snarktastic]

My DH once said, in total seriousness, that gambling regularly was pretty much the same as having a savings plan, as your money would come back to you eventually. His uncle was a bookie too.

Guess who does the budgeting in our household?

We're godless, evil and solvent :lol:

[Miggy]

My DH once said, in total seriousness, that gambling regularly was pretty much the same as having a savings plan, as your money would come back to you eventually. His uncle was a bookie too.

Guess who does the budgeting in our household?

We're godless, evil and solvent :lol:

Well, putting your money in a bank usually means you loose, as it is almost impossible to find an account that gives interest that keeps up with inflation. Even term deposits are often only keeping up with inflation, rather than getting you ahead. Not sure I would stretch this to saying you should gamble... :o

[klf7412]

My stepfather has many wonderful traits, but he is bad with money. When he met my mother, he was deep in debt. He just cannot handle money. When he moved in with my mother, she took over all finances. He received a cash allowance and had to make it last through the month. If special expenses came up, he discussed them with my mother and she gave him more money. It sounds emasculating, but he was down with the plan and willingly followed through it. Now their sizable debt is paid off and they are well on their way to owning 3 rental houses.

Sometimes one spouse (even the one with a PENIS) is bad at budgeting and managing money while another (sometimes the one with a VAGINA) is really good at it.

Your Mom sounds awesome. Just sayin'.

[musicalbookworm]

For some reason, this thread makes me think about one of my favorite stories about my maternal grandmother. She was a farm wife married to a WWII veteran. She was pretty conservative, but not conservative enough for fundies. She wanted to buy some furniture, but grandpa kept saying no, so, she went along with him....Until, he made a major purchase without consulting her. She finally went out and bought some furniture. One of those pieces was a secretary where she sat for many years writing and taking care of household finances. As she approached the end of life, grandma didn't care who got what as long as their wasn't a fight. Except for one thing....she insisted that secretary was to be passed along the female line of our family and never to pass to a male. :lol: :lol: The lesson, even if she seems conservative and traditional, never treat a woman from my family as if she has no voice in what should be joint decisions....