Does the MRS degree still exist?

[Olive Plant]

When I was a home schooled high school student, I was planning to go to this conservative Christian college that some of my friends had gone to. This one guy I told said: "Going to get your MRS degree?" and I was kind of pissed. Yeah, some of my friends had met a husband (and then dropped out) but not me! That wasn't my style!

Years later, I was yet again pissed when I heard through the grapevine that my mother had said when she found out I was dating my boyfriend that she hoped we got a prenup since I was financially better off than him. First, we have no plans to get married anytime soon, and second, she certainly wouldn't say that if he was the one who was better off.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I didn't plan on being a SAHM from the beginning. It kinda happened as my degree is getting me absolutely nowhere. You know the song from Avenue Q about a BA in english? Yeah. That.

I got out of school with my head filled that I'd get a well paying job because i had a degree. My parents filled my head with that crap. Yeah, every single "real" (aka office ) job I looked at wanted years of experience. I ended up working retail for 5 years before I found an office job that a friend got me. Ended up quitting that one because I made half of what my husband with a 2 year degree makes when our son was born. Daycare costs literally would have been my salary. Had I been the breadwinner, my husband would have been a stay at home dad.

I know education is really important but i'm a bit jaded and bitter about the fact that I'm in hock $25k in student loans and we're just NOW able to make payments on them and i'm doing absolutely jack shit with the degree.

Maybe its the degree I got, which in retrospect, I wanted to add an education certification on top of it, but I have friends who have the same degree I do + an education certification that are working at Starbucks. I blame the economy currently but when I got out of college the economy was nowhere near as bad as it is now.

I'm at loss myself as to what I'm going to do for my kid's college. I hope to G-d Romney doesn't win and do away with Pell grants because then we'll be doubly screwed. My husband is working on his BA and he'd lose his grants, and without grants for the kids, we'll be hosed. Utterly hosed.

[Itsnotaclowncar]

I got my BA in history at a highly selective northeastern university in 2009, I don't know anyone who seriously thought they were there for a MRS degree. In grad school I did know a few women that were doing it to keep themselves busy between or during pregnancies. No one goes into librarianship for the money, and since my fiance is in a high paying field I know I'll always make less than him. But we both expect me to work and if he left me tomorrow I could support current standard of living. At 25 we are also only the second couple to get married in our group (and the first had immigration issues).

The only SAHMs I know are women that I went to high school with who quit low paying jobs that wouldn't cover the cost of daycare. Maybe one or two got college degrees from online schools, but babies came before that.

Seriously, a class on slow cookers? I must be doing it wrong, I throw food in and ignore it for 8 hours.

[lovefromgirl]

I'm totally serious. It's not something I'm proud of, but what's done is done and now there's nothing to do but accept I made some poor decisions and work hard to better myself. Like I said, I do have a chronic illness and when you're babied by family, friends, and partner for being ill you tend to not make much of an effort. It just seemed very easy to get married and let my boyfriend fund my spending.

I've got a chronic illness as well. I have had to resist the temptations (to be babied by family, to marry well and never worry again -- I live in a ritzy area) but I always came back to "Well, what if I could use X assistive tech to help me have Y career?" As for spending, I might live in a ritzy area, but my family's poor, so I guess I've come to see it as a road to ruin.

My dream is therefore to come into my own money a la winning the lotto, if I'm not working, and write forever! Or sew forever! But if we're talking realism, yeah, training for that flexible, illness-accommodating career is my best bet if I want to stay a free woman.

[devilsadvocate]

I did not think this was a real thing -but I was wrong. I first noticed it in med school. At all of our dances/social gatherings there were a coterie of young women who seemed to be there just to meet the men. You could easily distinguish them from the female med students - we all looked tired and we talked with women and men - those women looked fabulous and only spent time with the men. I did not notice any men doing a similar thing for the female med students. Later when I was an intern/resident (last in the late 90's) I noticed a similar phenomena. Lots of women seemed flock around the male residents/interns. Even today i see a surprising number of women who are secretly or openly looking for a man to look after them.

As another person in the medical field, I agree that it's true that there are females who specifically seek out male physicians because they think it will be a life of wealth and "prestige". Even some nurses go into nursing to meet doctors (though many of the RNs are serious about their jobs of course).

In addition to plain old laziness, which I think is a common problem for both men and women (it's just more socially acceptable for women to express their laziness this way), I also think that some may look at the current economy and think that it's safer to just find some financially stable guy to latch onto rather than trying to make it in the world yourself.

[Lady_M]

Strangely, when I first got engaged to DH, I kind of figured that eventually we'd have kids and I'd work part time. This despite years of my mother telling me "you have to be prepared to pay your own way and work for yourself". For the record, I've been the primary breadwinner for most of the marriage and that doesn't show any sign of changing.

I got a BA in English because I'd planned to go on to grad school or law school, but wound up in a job during summers between school years working as a CNA and loved it. Worked, saved, and eventually got an associates in nursing so that I could get my RN. I really like nursing, but it's definitely not for everyone. That, and I don't view this as a terminal degree/position - I have every intention of going on for a master's and possibly a PhD in nursing. I don't do it because it's a "pink collar" job or "suitable for a woman", it's just what I'm good at and enjoy.

At the same time, I don't feel like the original BA was a waste. I did for a brief period, but I've recognized that the skills I learned such as making strong cases, being able to do research, being able to write reasonably well, and just the liberal arts/philosophical/cultural background have come in handy more than once. School also gave me the ability to withstand critiques (once a professor gave me back comments on a paper that were longer than the paper itself!) and to gauge my strengths and weaknesses more accurately.

[Lady_M]

I've met a few of these kinds of nurses. Most of them don't last long - nursing, particularly hospital nursing, is incredibly busy, difficult, and requires a great sense of time management (and humor).

Unfortunately, due to shows like Grey's Anatomy, there's a perception I've definitely run into a few times that hospitals are full of relationships and people sleeping together and so forth. The only thing I can say is that the people depicted in these shows clearly aren't busy enough - most days, I'm struggling to take my lunch break or get to the restroom, so any sort of "romance" would be impossible and unappealing at work even if I weren't married! :D

[grateful1230]

They both went to Clemson.

Sorry. As someone who is born and raised Carolina, I can't pass this up. Obviously the problem is that they both went to Clemson.

Outside of football shit talking, which anyone worth their salt around here is excellent at (and I fully expect FeministShrew to start a Clemson/USC war with me :) ) I have two degrees in Marketing and Management. They have not helped me at all for the last two years. In fact, I obtained my current job because I left off my college education. I was told that my degrees made me "overqualified" and I was more likely to get a job if the employers thought I was going to stay. Apparantly college education would perhaps mean you will leave for a better job? I'll take any job right now...

Back to my original, completely off topic, but SO much fun, point : Clemson sucks. USC rocks :))) GO COCKS!

football rant>

ETA: that many smileys annoyed the hell out of me, as I'm sure it did the rest of FJ land. USC is still better than Clemson.

[MissA]

There was one woman in my undergrad class (engineering school at a large state university) who had no intention of ever working as an engineer because she planned to get married to one and be a housewife. I don't believe she was especially religious, she just was bone lazy. This was incredibly frustrating: a lot of the work we did in labs and projects was done in small groups and she just. did. not. care. Everybody else who got assigned with her ended up picking up her slack... if there were men in the group, there'd be a lot of eye-batting and saying "Can you help me with this? You're so sma-art", and if it was all female she'd basically just screw off. I'm actually amazed she graduated.

I am still acquainted with her on facebook and although we are all in our early thirties now she's still single, which is unusual in that crowd. She has, however, never worked as an engineer, so at least she's succeeded at half of her goal.

[VVV]

I thought I heard that Brigham Young had a degree in Marriage and Family.

FWIW, I've earned more than my husband every year of our marriage except one. He thinks that's great. It all goes into the same pot anyway, so more for me is more for us. I'm a musician, he's a teacher, obviously neither of us married for money.

[Kitty]

I thought I heard that Brigham Young had a degree in Marriage and Family.

FWIW, I've earned more than my husband every year of our marriage except one. He thinks that's great. It all goes into the same pot anyway, so more for me is more for us. I'm a musician, he's a teacher, obviously neither of us married for money.

I believe it does, but a lot of Christian colleges do so I may be mistaking it for something else. :o

My mother has also out-earned my dad for years. My dad doesn't really mind. Everyone at one of our churches minded though, and it was a fairly run-of-the-mill SBC church. Oddly enough, my mom also went to an SBC school in the 70s. She's now a voting pants-wearing working woman who outearns her husband of 22 years. And neither of her daughters are in college looking for an MRS degree. She didn't like that school anyway...

[Katydid]

My SIL went to college for a degree in early childhood education, for the express purpose of being SAHM who homeschools. She got married 9 months after graduation, and engaged before she graduated. She never worked outside of retail, except for a month-long stint at a daycare, and when she had her first child, she started being a SAHM. I know other women who have done very similar things, too. I think it still exists in some circles.

[Guest Anonymous]

My SIL went to college for a degree in early childhood education, for the express purpose of being SAHM who homeschools. She got married 9 months after graduation, and engaged before she graduated. She never worked outside of retail, except for a month-long stint at a daycare, and when she had her first child, she started being a SAHM. I know other women who have done very similar things, too. I think it still exists in some circles.

It makes sense to have some training in education before homeschooling. IMHO, that's just sensible.

[smores]

Both of my boss's daughters (early 30's) did this. They both went to Clemson, met & married well-off guys. The older one lives in a mcmansion, is childless by choice, is not employed & sleeps til 2 or 3 every day. I've heard her nag her chemical engineer husband that he needs to earn more money.

The younger one just had her 4th child. She home schools & has a blog. I think she's fundie-lite. Her husband is a landscape architect & runs a landscaping firm with his dad. She told him even before they married that she would not be working, in the family business or anywhere else. They built a huge house - 3 stories & full daylight basement & attic. Her mother-in-law & mother watch the kids a good bit so she can do Crossfit, shopping with friends, etc.

When I broke up with my fiance, who made half as much as I do, my boss said, "Make sure the next one can support you." WTF?

I contrast this with my college freshman daughter - she has talked marriage with her boyfriend (who plans to be a band teacher, no big bucks there!), but neither one has any interest in getting married anytime soon. My daughter is studying sociology & wants to be a writer.

Ironic as hell that you posted this after my comment. That is mine and my sister's alma mater. :)

[smores]

Sorry. As someone who is born and raised Carolina, I can't pass this up. Obviously the problem is that they both went to Clemson.

Outside of football shit talking, which anyone worth their salt around here is excellent at (and I fully expect FeministShrew to start a Clemson/USC war with me :) ) I have two degrees in Marketing and Management. They have not helped me at all for the last two years. In fact, I obtained my current job because I left off my college education. I was told that my degrees made me "overqualified" and I was more likely to get a job if the employers thought I was going to stay. Apparantly college education would perhaps mean you will leave for a better job? I'll take any job right now...

Back to my original, completely off topic, but SO much fun, point : Clemson sucks. USC rocks :))) GO COCKS!

football rant>

ETA: that many smileys annoyed the hell out of me, as I'm sure it did the rest of FJ land. USC is still better than Clemson.

That's funny, I have a degree in political science from Clemson and passed up a job at P&G to be a stay at home mom for a little while longer while I work on online marketing. Of course, my husband the Clemson grad and UGA masters' holder, makes more than enough for me to stay home so that helps. Guess Clemson doesn't suck that bad?

Ok, ok, I'll stop the shit talking, but you can have your SEC football program, I'll take my Clemson degree any day.

[Katydid]

It makes sense to have some training in education before homeschooling. IMHO, that's just sensible.

If she hadn't gone to an out of state school and racked up student loan debt that her husband is repaying, I would agree with you. If she'd gone to a cheaper college or not taken out loans, I'd be totally supportive of it. Just because I'm miserable as a SAHM doesn't mean everyone is. I just think the whole going to a different state and getting in debt was stupid. And it was for her MRS :)

[smores]

If she hadn't gone to an out of state school and racked up student loan debt that her husband is repaying, I would agree with you. If she'd gone to a cheaper college or not taken out loans, I'd be totally supportive of it. Just because I'm miserable as a SAHM doesn't mean everyone is. I just think the whole going to a different state and getting in debt was stupid. And it was for her MRS :)

Still, thank god her kids will have some semblance of an education... even if she's paying on it until she dies.

[jjmennonite]

Despite my fundie upbringing, we were never told that a man would support us - I guess we were never given much advice about anything, and I concluded early on that I was on my own - no family money and no potential husband money.

I am 54, never been married, raised my daughter with no child support from her sperm donor.

I raised her to believe she MUST go to post-secondary - where she would go, would be the option. She drank my Koolaid and is in third year, a Kinesiology/psychology double major. No direct career path there, but she will be OK, and our economy is not really in recession.

Once she said to me 'Mom, I don't have to make a good salary, I just have to marry somebody who does'. I am pretty sure she said that to wind me up. It worked!

[YPestis]

I am OP and loving all the posts here.

I want to point out a couple of thoughts I had while reading:

First, there seems to be a gradient of "MRS degree" discussed here. The most severe is the college girl who outright announce to people she has no career plans, wants to be a SAHM, and actively seek out college guys who are on a career path to support her family in a comfortable middle/upper class style. I have only found a few girls like that in college. Interestingly enough, they were both from relatively wealthy families and had SAHM. I often wonder if the upper middle class are just more socially conservative because the system works pretty well for them (being a wealthy wife beats being a poor wife).

The less extreme----and more common---"MRS degree" seems to be the girl who majors in something interesting and fun with no eye on their future career option. They are also looking for a guy who can support a family, but they don't mind bringing in "pin money". Guys with so-so prospects are still not acceptable and the girls do not intend on being the breadwinner. This, I see in the girls of all stripes. In fact, I'd say that's status quo for a large minority of girls even in our generation.

Then there's the also common trend to want a career but with the unspoken idea that their husbands will probably make more. These girls are more likely to want and have jobs, but they are still used to the idea of a husband as breadwinner.

It's rare that I meet a girl who hits the ground running on her career, with a focus that she must seek out financial security for herself and her husband/kids. I see this attitude much more among guys. I only know of one other girl, besides me, who have always thought about the importance of finding jobs that can provide for husband and self, in case he is not a high earner. To me, it's not important that a husband earns a lot. He just need to be smart, cultured and a good cook (and not a slob). I find myself in a very small minority with that idea when I was in college.

We are still culturally conditioned to think in terms men as providers, even if most gals expect to bring home a secondary income. Now, I don't think the traditional model is bad. I would just like to see more girls who grow up thinking like ME. That they too can focus on careers which provide for their entire family.

I mean, I see even conservative girls talking about the importance of jobs that support themselves because they could be single for a while, but rarely do they discuss jobs that pay to support their family. It's this unspoken, perhaps subconscious idea that there will be someone else paying the "big" bills that I find insidious. One should be prepared to be the breadwinner should the need arise. When I was in college, I rarely found that attitude, even among my liberal, ambitious girl friends. Maybe we were all just idealist, thinking the husband we meet would never divorce us, that he would be smart and hard working.....

Of course, what we wish for is different than what life has in store for us. My friend who wanted to be a professional SAHM and marry a doc continues to work, even after the recent birth of her child. Not sure who she married. My friend who wanted to stay home while the kids are little is now the breadwinner with an unemployed husband. As for me, well, my husband's medical specialty will far pay more than my specialty so I will end up with a more traditional marriage after all. Only one of my friends is living the life that she dreamt for herself at age 19. I guess that's life.

[divadivine]

Went to college with a girl who proudly proclaimed she was there to get her MRS. She married a guy she started dating her Freshman year. He was older than her. They got married at the end of her Sophomore year. She was an education major (like me). I didn't see her much, mostly because she lived off campus and she was concentrating on upper elementary and middle school education. By Senior year, they were getting divorced and she moved back to the dorms. Clearly, the whole MRS didn't work out so well for her. Thankfully, she was smart enough to stay in school and earn a degree.

[Rosie]

I am OP and loving all the posts here.

I want to point out a couple of thoughts I had while reading:

First, there seems to be a gradient of "MRS degree" discussed here. The most severe is the college girl who outright announce to people she has no career plans, wants to be a SAHM, and actively seek out college guys who are on a career path to support her family in a comfortable middle/upper class style. I have only found a few girls like that in college. Interestingly enough, they were both from relatively wealthy families and had SAHM. I often wonder if the upper middle class are just more socially conservative because the system works pretty well for them (being a wealthy wife beats being a poor wife).

The less extreme----and more common---"MRS degree" seems to be the girl who majors in something interesting and fun with no eye on their future career option. They are also looking for a guy who can support a family, but they don't mind bringing in "pin money". Guys with so-so prospects are still not acceptable and the girls do not intend on being the breadwinner. This, I see in the girls of all stripes. In fact, I'd say that's status quo for a large minority of girls even in our generation.

Then there's the also common trend to want a career but with the unspoken idea that their husbands will probably make more. These girls are more likely to want and have jobs, but they are still used to the idea of a husband as breadwinner.

It's rare that I meet a girl who hits the ground running on her career, with a focus that she must seek out financial security for herself and her husband/kids. I see this attitude much more among guys. I only know of one other girl, besides me, who have always thought about the importance of finding jobs that can provide for husband and self, in case he is not a high earner. To me, it's not important that a husband earns a lot. He just need to be smart, cultured and a good cook (and not a slob). I find myself in a very small minority with that idea when I was in college.

We are still culturally conditioned to think in terms men as providers, even if most gals expect to bring home a secondary income. Now, I don't think the traditional model is bad. I would just like to see more girls who grow up thinking like ME. That they too can focus on careers which provide for their entire family.

I mean, I see even conservative girls talking about the importance of jobs that support themselves because they could be single for a while, but rarely do they discuss jobs that pay to support their family. It's this unspoken, perhaps subconscious idea that there will be someone else paying the "big" bills that I find insidious. One should be prepared to be the breadwinner should the need arise. When I was in college, I rarely found that attitude, even among my liberal, ambitious girl friends. Maybe we were all just idealist, thinking the husband we meet would never divorce us, that he would be smart and hard working.....

Of course, what we wish for is different than what life has in store for us. My friend who wanted to be a professional SAHM and marry a doc continues to work, even after the recent birth of her child. Not sure who she married. My friend who wanted to stay home while the kids are little is now the breadwinner with an unemployed husband. As for me, well, my husband's medical specialty will far pay more than my specialty so I will end up with a more traditional marriage after all. Only one of my friends is living the life that she dreamt for herself at age 19. I guess that's life.

Well, fwiw, I share your thinking. I went to law school in part because I wanted some security, some assurance that I would always be able to support myself and any children I might have. It never occurred to me that I wouldn't be responsible for supporting myself for my entire life. Truly it didn't.

My DH is a teacher and earns less than I do, even though I work part-time. When we were dating I never thought of him in provider-terms but, rather, in partner-terms. He is kind, gentle, a great dad, a good cook. He is attentive to the needs of our family, a great conversationalist, well-read. But a breadwinner/provider for a family, he is not (and frankly I don't think it ever occurred to him that he needed to occupy that role). But that's ok, because I am a breadwinner/provider, and between the two of us we support ourselves and our children very well. We are truly a team.

I am 51yo for what that's worth, went to law school 20+ years ago, and am from the northeast. Maybe that makes a difference, I dunno.

[Arete]

Understood - but this has become less and less so as women have become increasingly able to support ourselves and our children. Most divorces are initiated by women.

RE dating as economic transaction: If, in the search for a spouse you are eliminating from consideration anyone who cannot singlehandedly support you and future children in the style you require, IMO the whole process becomes mercenary in a very ugly way.

I agree. FWIW permanent SAHMs are about as rare as men willing to be house husbands in my circle.

[atheistjd]

English major here, although it was always meant to be used as a stepping stone on the way to law school (which I'm just a few hundred days from finishing - woohoo!!). I also worked professionally using my degree for years prior to law school. Having been with the same man since before we started college, I guess I always subconsciously thought he would be the primary breadwinner for some reason (despite the fact that while he does well, his current job isn't as lucrative as my legal career, knock on wood). It's strange what you internalize I suppose. But I know plenty of women at my (incredibly secular) college who were in the middle of OP's spectrum - no one who explicitly wanted to be a career SAHM post-college, but were plenty happy to coast to a history or English degree to marry an engineer or doctor. But I think my generation has been pretty hard-hit by the economic realities, and almost everyone I know, male or female, is overworked and underpaid anyway. The SAHMs I know make a lot of sacrifices to not work - no one is wealthy on one income these days.

[gravelmonkey]

There are some women and men who pretty much think being married to a doctor will bring them instant wealth and when that doesn't happen, problems happen. One of my paternal aunts was married to a doctor. They married during his second year of medical school. She has said that being married to a med student was tough and after he finished med school, it took several years for them to get ahead financially. There were times in which they cut several corners to pay off loans. They ended up divorcing because he had an affair. He later married the woman who he had an affair with. My aunt's ex is a general practitioner who has worked at clinics. He has never made huge salaries, his second wife landed them in bankruptcy ten years after they had married. My aunt found out about this when her son was about to graduate from high school and the ex said he wouldn't be able to help out with college. I have a guy friend who is in his third year of med school. He is single and a lot of people at this school have told that is good that he is single. He said he has heard several stories of people who marry med students and end up being annoyed later on when the couples have to face the debt after medical school.

I've been dating my boyfriend since undergrad, but when medical school became a reality, I thought seriously about ending the relationship. The stories of affairs, debt, divorces, etc made it a hard sell. I finally decided I shouldn't end a relationship based on the bad things that could happen, but I do still worry from time to time.

[atheistjd]

I've been dating my boyfriend since undergrad, but when medical school became a reality, I thought seriously about ending the relationship. The stories of affairs, debt, divorces, etc made it a hard sell. I finally decided I shouldn't end a relationship based on the bad things that could happen, but I do still worry from time to time.

I totally had the same thoughts prior to law school - all these horror/divorce stories. But I think if you go into it with eyes wide open and an awareness of the time, energy, and monetary commitment, you can make it work if it was meant to be. It's the wives/husbands of my classmates who married them BECAUSE they were going to be lawyers that end up not being able to handle it, in my experience. (My husband has been just fine, but I think he is just waiting for me to make it big... haha :lol: )