Do You Ever Feel Sad?

[ElphabaGalinda]

I get sad sometimes, for the children born into this life who have never known anything else. I think of all the great things they could potentially do if only they were born into a different family. It makes me sad to think of all the opportunities they're being denied. I'm never sad for the one raised normally who decide upon this life as adults. They may have issues, but they made a choice, and they're not allowing their children to have the same opportunity. I like to have theories about which ones might escape because they still can, so there's always still hope. And I'm confident that there will be some escapes from fundie or fundie-lite families. Maybe not as much as I'd like, but some. And I imagine them reading a site like FJ and realizing that there are other options out there. And when i stand up for what I believe in, when i'm vocal for being such a proud feminist, when I speak out against misogyny...I feel like in some way I might be making a difference for at least once person, and that mostly makes the sadness go away. And I know that I can influence the people in my own lives in ways that matter. My sister won't call herself a feminist, but she is taking a woman's studies course at university, so i feel that by talking to her about what she's learning, I'm helping ensure she becomes the strong, confident, awesome woman I know she can be. And every time I hear FJers talking about how awesomely they're raising their children, it warms my heart, and reminds me that there's good in the world.

[Jana814]

I feel bad for the older kids that really do not have a way to get out, and if they did, they would have no way of knowing how to function in the "real" world. I feel bad for the extened family members who see their relatives and know their way of life is not really a good one. I feel bad for the older girls in large families like the Duggars and Bates and other large families who are expected to take care of the youngers kids with a smile on their faces.

[Boltingmadonna]

This is a both-and site, so count me as another one who feels both sad AND angry. Sometimes when I read stuff here I get that short of breath, awful cold pit in my stomach feeling that I used to get when I was young and felt trapped. I feel so angry that people are still falling for this crap. This summer, I found out that my niece has joined a version of the same cult that I was in for ten years--the one that kicked me and my husband out because we wouldn't obey them without question.(This is their current incarnation--but there's not much snark opportunity because they are extremely secretive and dishonest. http://www.swordofthespirit.net/)

When I heard she was part of their university outreach, I just felt rage. I thought "Why can't these bastards just DIE?!" How can this go on and on, into another generation? Her mother, my sister, is concerned about her, but I sort of blame her. I think she and her husband are genuinely loving, caring parents, but they are also very controlling and insisted on sending both their kids to a private Calvinist Christian college that sounded like pure hell to me--all thoughts carefully controlled. So it's not too surprising that her dutiful daughter--who is an extraordinarily sweet, kind, talented young woman with a nursing degree--would seek perfection and forgiveness for her (imaginary) flaws in an authoritarian group that could reassure her of her salvation. My niece should be exploring life's joys and enjoying a social life with other young people. Instead, she told me last time she saw me that she felt, as a single woman, she should be thinking of others more than herself, and seeking out opportunities to serve. I felt like blurting "OH, BARF!!" but knew I would lose her confidence if I did.

I love Free Jinger because people don't mince words around here. They aren't always giving people the benefit of the doubt and turning the other cheek. They call it like it is: vile, sucky oppression that poisons everything and makes people miserable. Rock on, FJ.

[Mommy22alyns]

Yes, sad and angry. The strict gender roles are so depressing. I can't imagine telling my girls that they're "less than" because they're girls. How could you do this to your own children?

[slh12280]

I get more angry but sometimes sad. I get very angry about how they treat women. Never allowing them any independence or opportunities outside of the appropriate gender roles. They make women believe that they can't make their decisions and they are weak. I feel especially sad for the children, especially little girls, as they will not get to experience so many things in life. For example, I was at the fair the other night and having a lot of fun with my friends when I realized a lot of fundies would not be allowed that very innocent, harmless activity because it would be too "worldly" with the secular music and all :(

One thing I will say, though, is that they have succeeded in turning me to more feminist ideals.

[Sister Mozz]

I definitely feel sad and angry about it. Anger is generally reserved for the leaders like Doug Phillips, who lead a pretend life and their followers are content to live mindlessly in their non-reality of a world. I'm angry at Voddie Baucham, who dresses up his misogynistic views and his lack of promoting the God he claims to serve. I'm angry at Michael Pearl and how he does not appear one single bit touched that children have died from his teaching. I'm angry at Bill Gothard, who has set himself up to be a god and has robbed families and individuals through delusions.

I'm sad for those raised in it, who were taught that the only emotion is joy. That you must never speak badly of an authority. That you must never question the motives of an authority, or tell them no. I feel bad for those who have grown into adulthood by many years but they don't even know what to think beyond repeating what someone else has told them.

It's a puzzle. My parents have started suggesting college as an option to some of my younger siblings, though they only refer to it as "trade school", but what they fail to see is their own homeschooling standards are so lax that I'm not even sure my siblings could get in. My mother had to show my 16-year-old brother how to sign his name this week when he went to get a photo ID because he'd never done it before. Yet they think they are so superior to anyone who sends their kids to public or private school. And what's terrible is that there's nothing I can do about it, even in my own family.

FJ does make a difference. Every time we're able to at least get people to think, we win a little battle. If there's enough cracks in their thinking, we have and will continue to see some breakthroughs and break-outs. Keep up the good work.

[CallmeChaCha]

I too am with everyone who feels sadness and anger over all this. I've only known about these fundies for about a year (I mean, REALLY known what they're all about), so I don't know of all the goings-on of all the families (or even most of the families) mentioned on FJ. But from what I've gathered, it seems to me that most of these children, adult children included, don't know that they can leave. That's what makes me the most sad. I don't think they know that they have as many options as they really have and I don't think all the years of teaching they received allows them to think such a thing. And even if they do realize they can live another way, I'm sure the thought of living a different way than what they've lived their entire lives is so overwhelming, it's probably just easier for them to continue with a life they already know and understand. :(

[salsa]

This, especially as the more fundie things sort of trickle down into mainstream Christianity. I feel bad for the people we talk about, at least the kids who have been forced into a life where this is what they know. But I'm a little more worried about what their beliefs mean for me.

How they think that women should never be able to have any control over their reproductive life other than keeping our legs shut (which they don't even have as an option for married women) or resorting to coathangers.

How they think it would be just peachy to provoke a war with another country because none of their precious children would be endangered by it, since none of them promote the idea of joining the military, just dressing up and playing war games.

How they think the public school system is evil. Daycare is evil. Women working is evil. Women controlling their lives essentially equals EVIL to them.

Fuck them. I'm a lapsed Catholic, birth control using, pro-choice, working single mother who thinks quality day care is one of the world's best inventions... and I vote.

THAT! It's that Christians, the majority of the US population, start idolizing these ideals, believing that these ideals make one a True Christian .

But to top it off, the Christian right got into bed with the political right a couple decades ago.

I'm not specifically sad, but it does make me very nervous.

Vive la checks and balances! We're the "check" in this one.

[luckystone]

I feel depressed when I talk to other people about misogyny in daily life and none of them seem to take it seriously and think it's a thing of the past. I went on a forum and posted about stuff like this and the result is that the people knew nothing about feminism and nor do they care. It's like the fundies inadvertently have people in their corner.

Yes, that makes me sadder than the fundie children thing. There is SO MUCH misogyny everywhere and when you say it, people think you are making a fuss. That's not exclusive to fundies though. The most tragic part for me is that it's in every culture, it just shows itself in different ways in each one.

[JesusFightClub]

I feel sad when posters squee over newborns who have no future.

This, really.

I get twitchy at people who have "pet fundies". It's like having "pet fascists" to me.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

This, really.

I get twitchy at people who have "pet fundies". It's like having "pet fascists" to me.

I don't think it's often squeeing just to squee. More like, "Look at that beautiful child, what a tragedy he was born into a cult family."

[valsa]

This, really.

I get twitchy at people who have "pet fundies". It's like having "pet fascists" to me.

This x 100.

I also feel the same way about fundie weddings.

[Closed Womb]

I've never known anyone like the Maxwells or the Duggars, but I have known some pretty hard core fundies. What breaks my heart is that they really believe what they have been told. I mean, really believe it (the subjugated ones; not sure if the leaders believe it or if they are just getting off on their power; I suspect it is the latter.) Their hearts break over all the poor souls that they did not manage to save with their street preaching, Bible tracts, church invites, etc. The women believe they are commanded to wear dresses/skirts, not cut their hair short, and have children (and, in some cases, not wear makeup or jewelry other than wedding rings.) If they question it, their voice is discounted because it is a female voice. There really is no recourse, no way to ask an honest question and get a straight answer. Anything, at any time, can be dismissed because it is a "silly woman" asking it. They say ALL women are "silly" and "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (2 Timothy 3:7). They can't question.

It's nauseating.

[Patsy]

My 2 year old is extremely spirited, stubborn and well, HIM.

I thank G-d every day we got him and not some fundie family who would beat the precious amazing spirit out of him.

Bethany Maxwell looks a lot like my self-assured, strutting, spitfire niece who just don't give a fuck. It brings me such joy to see snotty, stubborn honey badger kids going about with their bad selves (seriously, I love kids, but the bold as brass little shits always worm their way into my heart first), and obviously even more so when it's somebody I love. I don't let myself think about how Bethany must be treated if she has a similar personality.

This is a quote that I often remind myself of : "you can not do great things, you can only do small things with great love". When I get depressed about how impotent and small my efforts are I remind myself that even if I can't fix a problem I can usually find a way to do something - even if only a small thing - and for me that is comforting. When I see the Republicans/fundamentalists push forward agendas that I find hateful, I know that I don't have much power on my own to do anything but if I can help teach my young cousins/nieces/nephews/other children I am around to be fair,honest and kind then I have done something. I don't pretend that any comment I make will change anything - but perhaps by having a forum like FJ - someone trapped in a fundie lifestyle will see there is another way. So, yes, I do sometimes feel sad but then I remind myself that small things do matter and no one knows all ends - perhaps some small action/word of mine will start a cascade that will make a significant change.

Yeah. What I can offer vulnerable people around me is not "enough", but it is "what I can do". I did feel a great release when I let go of my powerlessness and acknowledged that things are always a bit awful and always will be.

[darareaksmey]

This x 100.

I also feel the same way about fundie weddings.

+1

I feel less sad than angry, mostly because I focus on the evil ones who think they are doing such great things in Jesus's name. I get angry about the judgment they cast over the rest of us, and how they have co-opted MY Savior and misuse his name and his word in support of all kinds of hatred and intolerance.

I can't focus on the ones who are helpless to escape this situation because it would depress me too much. But even if I could I would be more sad for the others--the nonfundies--who are directly or indirectly hurt by the fundy brand of crayzee.

[treemom]

After meeting the maxwell "children" I am all the more sad. I think I am softening my view on them having choices and being able to leave. Seeing the reaction of Mary and Sarah proved to me that they are completely in a cult.

It is terribly sad.

[Mythicwings]

Bethany Maxwell looks a lot like my self-assured, strutting, spitfire niece who just don't give a fuck. It brings me such joy to see snotty, stubborn honey badger kids going about with their bad selves (seriously, I love kids, but the bold as brass little shits always worm their way into my heart first), and obviously even more so when it's somebody I love. I don't let myself think about how Bethany must be treated if she has a similar personality.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: yes :)

Bethany Maxwell looks a lot like my self-assured, strutting, spitfire niece who just don't give a fuck. It brings me such joy to see snotty, stubborn honey badger kids going about with their bad selves (seriously, I love kids, but the bold as brass little shits always worm their way into my heart first), and obviously even more so when it's somebody I love. I don't let myself think about how Bethany must be treated if she has a similar personality.

mmmhmmm At least in a lot of these families, their spirits seem to have been broken in the sense that they at least know how to obey and look happy about it. She probably isn't being accused of having demons and being beaten for it. That's a good thing. It's hard to look happy if that is the response to being independent-minded.

[Mythicwings]

After meeting the maxwell "children" I am all the more sad. I think I am softening my view on them having choices and being able to leave. Seeing the reaction of Mary and Sarah proved to me that they are completely in a cult.

It is terribly sad.

YES YES!!! They absolutely deserve sympathy.

When people say that they don't feel bad for the adult children because they are choosing that life, it seems like they really have no idea what psychological damage is done in those systems, it really is a Stockholm Syndrome situation. But like a lot of people have said, you put seeds in their heads to maybe let them question something, like that there may actually be questions.

[jjmennonite]

This is all very personal to me, as I have 100s of relatives who are fundy and fundy-lite. The Uriah trip to Grande Prairie, Slave Lake, and Le Crete in 2011 would have been attended and/or arranged by some of my relatives.

Sad and angry happen to me over my relatives, frequently, when I see things such as them getting married very young so they can have sex, or throwing out their religion, and becoming alcoholics, because they are still motivated by guilt. I know and love many of my fundy relatives, and some of them do have a lot of fun and love in their homes. Some of these same ones are horrid and cruel to their sister because she left the faith.

I was very enamored with my Mennonite heritage when I signed up with Free Jinger, thus my username. I had just returned from a Mennonite Disaster Service (MDS) volunteer trip to Mississipi to build homes for Katrina victems. It was delightful to see MDS giving homes to locals, regardless of their religion. I also had a lot of fun with a group of mostly 19 year old girls who were horse-and-buggy Mennonites. I found out that I was old enough (54) to be the mother of 13 children - one of my room-mate's mothers was my age, and she was the youngest of 13.

So, some of them do have fun, but it is still very sad that their lives are so restricted.

I watched the Jesus Camp movie for the first time, last week, and found it gut wrenching. My parents went from fundy Mennonite to Pentacostal and dad always talked about how 'God showed him the light'. We went to camps like that Jesus camp, as children. The Pentacosals were just as destructive, just did not have the weird clothes.

I graduated from high school, in the city, with a 94% average, but did not go on, because I 'knew' that I was too poor to go to university. Fortunately, just 2 years later I found out how amazing our student loan program is, and I got a degree.

I did not mean to write a tome, but I have spent my adult life recovering from the evils of my religious upbringing. We were raised in a home with love, but the insideous religious crap had a huge effect.

That is why I LOVE free jinger - so much of what I see here is so personal. I don't comment much but I read every day. All hail the hive vagina and the trinity.

[salsa]

Learning that PP left Zsu to go camping a mere three days after their marriage made me feel sad. I would have been so hurt if my new husband had done something like that. But besides that, it makes me sad to think how women are seen as objects: of course, there's the sexual object component, covering up so as not to defraud, but that you're not your own person, but a man's wife and he doesn't have to care about you if he doesn't want to. Just have sweet fellowship and pop out the babies and cook all meals at home from scratch and homeschool and listen to hate-filled sermons until you look 10 years older than you are ... because you're nothing but a woman, something owned by a man.

At least Zsu doesn't ahve to keep sweet.

[Mythicwings]

...I watched the Jesus Camp movie for the first time, last week, and found it gut wrenching. My parents went from fundy Mennonite to Pentacostal and dad always talked about how 'God showed him the light'. We went to camps like that Jesus camp, as children. The Pentacosals were just as destructive, just did not have the weird clothes.

I graduated from high school, in the city, with a 94% average, but did not go on, because I 'knew' that I was too poor to go to university. Fortunately, just 2 years later I found out how amazing our student loan program is, and I got a degree.

I did not mean to write a tome, but I have spent my adult life recovering from the evils of my religious upbringing. We were raised in a home with love, but the insideous religious crap had a huge effect.

That is why I LOVE free jinger - so much of what I see here is so personal. I don't comment much but I read every day. All hail the hive vagina and the trinity.

Yeah - and it sounds like you may have grown up nearby to the Mennonite and Amish groups, too. We had Mennonite friends but weren't, and I always felt we were just that we bought our clothes in department stores.

I hope it gets back to being amazing - the Free Market people have let the banks take over student loans and run up debts for people that are really almost unsustainable, and in a lot of cases are. Obama just signed something a couple of years ago that makes it better somewhat, like...keeps the banks from using student loans as a big source of profits or something :) it's a good start :)

Yeah, there are so many ex-fundies here who know exactly what these families are going through! It is a very cathartic place.

[itsnikki05]

It does make me sad. For the children, and for the women especially. The women are pushed down like all they're good for is to breed and keep up the house... heck, I'm a SAHM, but that is my CHOICE. I have no problem with choosing it for yourself. And then the children are taught to repeat the cycle. :(

[themadapple]

Sadness, but quite a bit of disdain and disgust along with it.

[theologygeek]

It brings me such joy to see snotty, stubborn honey badger kids going about with their bad selves (seriously, I love kids, but the bold as brass little shits always worm their way into my heart first),

I'm the same way. Those are my favorite kind of kids. That's how my kids are. My grandmother used to say that "fresh" kids made her happiest.

[Funintended]

I feel so sad. Every. Single. Day. For this. I especially feel sad for the babies. They have it so good before they're born... Constant comfort, warmth, no cry-it-out crap and no starvation implemented by they-must-learn-to-control-their-urges-when-they're-young ideas from parents who don't control THEIR own urges and impulses when it comes to having sex/babies willy nilly or hitting their kids (I mean, popping/spanking) or indulging in any spiritual change they FEEL God laid on their heart :think: Fundy parents are SO selfish: kids are like gold stickers (blessings?) on a chart and if they act in anyway that appears un-gold-star-like, the parents are so rude and mean and selfish and cruel and.... UGH! Yeah, it's sad. Especially because it's promoted and condoned and anyone who objects is a heretic. You can't just love your kids and give them a good childhood; you have to show them who is boss and shape your world around something so harsh and far out and if you don't, you're a bad parent. :angry-banghead:

And I try to feel sad for the women but seriously, they make me so mad. Have you tried setting a Fundy wife straight (in other words, tried to help them)? See what they do when you tell them, "Honey, if what your husband is doing is unhealthy for your family, tell him in no uncertain terms! Your husband needs to know what you think and feel! Set your foot down! You have a mouth and a brain: USE them!" Especially in the area of a mother taking care of her child. I know a family who the baby was almost failure to thrive and after they found out what was wrong, the husband had to freaking pray about the necessary procedure for the baby's health issue for THREE F***ING DAYS. THREE DAYS the baby got little nutrition AFTER they figured out the problem the baby had dealt with for the first 3 weeks of her life. :evil:

But the problem is with these Fundy women, they're so hung up on "finding their place" and "knowing their role" that their husbands literally walk all over them, fuck them like rabbits and strut around their houses like they're the king of a castle. And the women just cower in a worshipful pose all.day.long. all in the name of submission. Its stupidity and it's sickening.