A Shining Botkin Beacon of Snark

[Deleted07]

Awesome piece of satire, LOVE it.

As a sausage fingered, chubby chaser, I approve of this post! :lol:

[luckystone]

Very clever. I can't believe she is related to the Botkins. Nice to see she has some good ideas too. I had known she was educated and a bit of a feminist but hearing she is right about gay marriage too makes me pleased.

Funny how many comments didn't realise it. That's actually quite sad.

There is a difference though which bugged me - you CAN stop being fat (in 99% of cases). You can't stop being gay. I wouldn't compare the annoyance of losing weight to the trauma of having to fake your sexual orientation every day.

[Olive Plant]

There is a difference though which bugged me - you CAN stop being fat (in 99% of cases). You can't stop being gay. I wouldn't compare the annoyance of losing weight to the trauma of having to fake your sexual orientation every day.

Of course, but fundies will never, ever admit this. In their minds, it is a choice, maybe one with other factors involved, but still a choice. Even if it WERE a choice with some possible genetic factors thrown in like they claim, it doesn't make it OK to outlaw gay marriage.

[wtylcf]

There is a difference though which bugged me - you CAN stop being fat (in 99% of cases). You can't stop being gay. I wouldn't compare the annoyance of losing weight to the trauma of having to fake your sexual orientation every day.

Heh, I'm almost afraid to write this, because I don't want to derail this thread or take away from Katie Botkin's cleverly made point about the stupid arguments frequently used to counter gay marriage. It's more difficult than it seems to lose weight and keep it off, as I (and many others) can attest to from experience. I'm slightly overweight, not obese; I exercise regularly several times a week at the gym, eat a lot of vegetables, don't keep junk food in the house, limit my dessert-eating/consumption of alcohol to a couple of times a week, and walk nearly everywhere as I don't own a car. I just went to my doctor and my blood pressure and cholesterol levels are excellent. Yet my healthy, active lifestyle has not caused me to magically become thin. I have only ever lost weight through conscious restriction of calories, which is very hard to keep up - my longest stint was 8 months of logging calories every day, at which point stressful life events derailed me. You have to dedicate a fair amount of work and brainspace to maintaining a healthy weight if you are not thin without effort, while so many people think a healthy weight can be achieved naturally or without much work, if you "just eat healthily and exercise!" This blogger: http://justmaintaining.com/ provides an excellent illustration of the kind of work she puts into maintaining her significant weight loss, including behaviours that she admits border upon eating disorders, but which are sanctioned by most people around her because they accomplish the goal of keeping within an acceptable weight.

Anyway, yes, it is possible for overweight people to change their appearance, while gay people can't change their orientation, and it's not like fat people are actually losing civil rights by being fat. But calling weight loss an "annoyance" kind of rubs me the wrong way, because it seems a little bit fat shaming, as in, if those lazy fat people would just put in a little effort, they wouldn't be that way. That's also the impression I get from "you can stop being fat in 99% of cases." It's not like all fat people are lazy bums who eat exclusively junk food; it's just that some of us aren't genetically lucky enough to achieve thinness without devoting so much time to the project that it gets in the way of our other goals, like education, career, or spending time with family. I don't think Katie trivializes the trauma of being gay with her post by her comparison; I do think your response trivializes the experience of being overweight, perhaps because you've never had to think about weight loss before if you're not overweight yourself.

Finally (and topically), I loved Katie's parody and thought it was spot-on.

[smittykins]

Of course, but fundies will never, ever admit this. In their minds, it is a choice, maybe one with other factors involved, but still a choice. Even if it WERE a choice with some possible genetic factors thrown in like they claim, it doesn't make it OK to outlaw gay marriage.

To them, it's a choice because it's a behavior, not a fundamental part of who you are. If you're not having teh ghey secks, you're not gay.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Some of the comments there are, just, horrible.

[Mommy22alyns]

I didn't realize there was a free Botkin!

[luckystone]

Heh, I'm almost afraid to write this, because I don't want to derail this thread or take away from Katie Botkin's cleverly made point about the stupid arguments frequently used to counter gay marriage. It's more difficult than it seems to lose weight and keep it off, as I (and many others) can attest to from experience. I'm slightly overweight, not obese; I exercise regularly several times a week at the gym, eat a lot of vegetables, don't keep junk food in the house, limit my dessert-eating/consumption of alcohol to a couple of times a week, and walk nearly everywhere as I don't own a car. I just went to my doctor and my blood pressure and cholesterol levels are excellent. Yet my healthy, active lifestyle has not caused me to magically become thin. I have only ever lost weight through conscious restriction of calories, which is very hard to keep up - my longest stint was 8 months of logging calories every day, at which point stressful life events derailed me. You have to dedicate a fair amount of work and brainspace to maintaining a healthy weight if you are not thin without effort, while so many people think a healthy weight can be achieved naturally or without much work, if you "just eat healthily and exercise!" This blogger: http://justmaintaining.com/ provides an excellent illustration of the kind of work she puts into maintaining her significant weight loss, including behaviours that she admits border upon eating disorders, but which are sanctioned by most people around her because they accomplish the goal of keeping within an acceptable weight.

Anyway, yes, it is possible for overweight people to change their appearance, while gay people can't change their orientation, and it's not like fat people are actually losing civil rights by being fat. But calling weight loss an "annoyance" kind of rubs me the wrong way, because it seems a little bit fat shaming, as in, if those lazy fat people would just put in a little effort, they wouldn't be that way. That's also the impression I get from "you can stop being fat in 99% of cases." It's not like all fat people are lazy bums who eat exclusively junk food; it's just that some of us aren't genetically lucky enough to achieve thinness without devoting so much time to the project that it gets in the way of our other goals, like education, career, or spending time with family. I don't think Katie trivializes the trauma of being gay with her post by her comparison; I do think your response trivializes the experience of being overweight, perhaps because you've never had to think about weight loss before if you're not overweight yourself.

Finally (and topically), I loved Katie's parody and thought it was spot-on.

I definitely understand, I have to go to an awful pain to just maintain, and I still have more chubbiness than I'd like. I am not naturally thin and do pretty extreme amounts of exercise to stay with my slightly chubby - I have also been logging calories for a few months to try and knock a few kilos off, and people say it's anorexic or obsessive but they don't understand!

But I stand by what I said and it is still not the same as being gay though, except for a few rare cases where you have some kind of condition like hypothyroidism or a pituitary tumour or whatever. It is hard to change but it is not impossible and I think it is impossible to genuinely consciously change your natural orientation.